Render unto Cesar.........

[phil112]

We're familiar with that incident and its implications. Having served on a jury, as I was reading this morning this thought crossed my mind. If you are being questioned as a potential juror for a capital offense, the prosecutors might ask "Would you be willing to assign the death penalty in the event of a guilty verdict?"
I have wavered on this, first believing in a death penalty, then thinking a life sentence with no chance of parole would be sufficient. My reasoning is this: A death sentence would keep a person from heaven, therefore eliminating his chances of eternal salvation. Consequently that would ultimately be an eternal judgement, and only God should make that.
My understanding has become clearer on that and I will detail it another time.
What do you think? Would you give a man a death penalty? Does that sentence have a place in our society?

 

[BarlyGurl]

Since you asked....
Frankly, I think you are OVER GRACING the issue. Thru OT there are very clear instructions BY GOD to KILL people for numerous offenses from adultery, incorrigible children, witchcraft, etc. NOW we have a contemporary society which considers those <afore-mentioned> conditions "normal and acceptable" and expounds on the virtue of slathering "grace" upon the offenders as if that is "loving GOD"....NOT SO says I... because the scripture says to LOVE GOD first, HATE what is evil and I suggest it is pretty important to God that we make the proper distinctions there...lest we be putting "created" above the Creator.

 

[kaylagrl]

We're familiar with that incident and its implications. Having served on a jury, as I was reading this morning this thought crossed my mind. If you are being questioned as a potential juror for a capital offense, the prosecutors might ask "Would you be willing to assign the death penalty in the event of a guilty verdict?"
I have wavered on this, first believing in a death penalty, then thinking a life sentence with no chance of parole would be sufficient. My reasoning is this: A death sentence would keep a person from heaven, therefore eliminating his chances of eternal salvation. Consequently that would ultimately be an eternal judgement, and only God should make that.
My understanding has become clearer on that and I will detail it another time.
What do you think? Would you give a man a death penalty? Does that sentence have a place in our society?

According to both the OT and the NT it does. And yes I would sign a death penalty. Now I have to go into hiding here because I will be called everything but a lady for saying the death penalty is right.

 

[BarlyGurl]

Now I have to go into hiding here because I will be called everything but a lady for saying the death penalty is right.

You go stand on Mat. 5:11 Kayla... and let 'em revile away.

 

[kaylagrl]

You go stand on Mat. 5:11 Kayla... and let 'em revile away.

Yes Ma'am, I intend to!

 

[KennethC]

We are commanded in the new covenant to show LOVE, MERCY, and FORGIVENESS to all people, and we are commanded to minister to those who are in prison.

Where is love, mercy, and forgiveness in putting a person to death, and do you seek death first before giving the person the chance to be ministered to ???

We are not bound under the written ordinances of the law, nor are we called to follow the old letter of the law.
We are called to walk in the same love, mercy, and forgiveness that God shown to us through our Lord Jesus, are we still put to physical death for breaking any of the 10 Commandments ???

No, so why should we hold others to face physical death for their sins if the Lord took that punishment away for ours ???

 

[Nautilus]

A death sentence would keep a person from heaven, therefore eliminating his chances of eternal salvation. Consequently that would ultimately be an eternal judgement, and only God should make that.

This doesn't actually make a lot of sense. In what way would a death penalty keep someone from heaven? I'm very curious to hear your reasoning behind this.

 

[BarlyGurl]

Ken, apply Micah 6:8 use any text version you choose.

 

[KennethC]

Ken, apply Micah 6:8 use any text version you choose.

Micah 6:8
He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?

This verse does not justify the use of the death penalty in the new covenant, as once again doing justly means to walk properly in the love of God. It also here shows to love mercy which is what the Lord Jesus also showed about putting not putting a person to death because He requires mercy to be shown instead. (Matthew 9:13)

I will ask again do you believe you should still face physical death for your sins, or do you believe and know the Lord took that punishment for you ???

If you believe the Lord took that punishment for us on the cross for our sins, why do you still place punishment/curse of the law on others for their sins instead of showing them love and mercy under God's grace ???

 

[crossnote]

As a juror you are invested with the duties of the State.
The duty of any government...

Genesis 9:6 (KJV) Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

This duty of government always stands true.
As an individual Christian you are in full accord with God's Word to serve on a death penalty trial.
If your conscience doesn't allow for it, explain it to the Judge but at least don't criticize those who do.

Romans 13:2-4 (KJV)
2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

 

[KennethC]

As a juror you are invested with the duties of the State.
The duty of any government...

This duty of government always stands true.
As an individual Christian you are in full accord with God's Word to serve on a death penalty trial.
If your conscience doesn't allow for it, explain it to the Judge but at least don't criticize those who do.

Romans 13:2-4 (KJV)
2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

The word of God also shows that if what the rulers do contradicts His ways we are not held to follow, for we are to obey God before man. (Acts 5:29)

This here in Romans 13 is also taken out of context to accept the death penalty by Christians, however administering wrath does not always mean putting a person to death. When God's wrath is poured out in the bible on some we can see that not always was it death.

(Revelation 9:6) And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

Justice/wrath can be a lifetime of imprisonment so that they are given a chance to be ministered to as the Word of God commands, to try and lead them to repentance. If you take that chance out of their hands and place the curse of the law on them, do you think that God then should put the curse of the law back on you for yours ???

 

[BarlyGurl]

Micah 6:8
He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly PERFORM JUSTICE, and to love mercy BE MERCIFUL WHILE PERFORMING JUSTICE, and to walk humbly with thy God KEEP proper order, God is MASTER, I am servant?

This verse does not justify the use of the death penalty in the new covenant, as once again doing justly means to walk properly in the love of God. It also here shows to love mercy which is what the Lord Jesus also showed about putting not putting a person to death because He requires mercy to be shown instead. (Matthew 9:13) Jesus died so that WE being spiritually DEAD could LIVE.... HE did NOT die so that human social Governance rules would be made VOID, nope, in fact... CHRISTIANS are supposed to be reigning and ruling NOW. Putting a person to death, as a PENAL enforcement for committing a social crime and being found guilty... has no bearing on salvation... it just means that person has less "time" as a consequence of their actions to recieve their salvation so it would be merciful for others to minister that point, NOT be asserting "give em a little more time, don't execute the ax murderer for murdering... nahh he doesn't know what he is doing".... that would be putting the created... above the Creator.

.... I am getting a real awakening to how much of that is going on these days...

I will ask again do you believe you should still face physical death for your sins, or do you believe and know the Lord took that punishment for you ??? EVERY SINGLE PERSON is facing physical death, and if I committed a criminal offense subject to the death penalty... YES I WOULD EXPECT I WAS WORTHY TO DIE. Which is why we have legal ordinances to administrate social JUSTICE. You are plainly erring in not distinguishing between social FUNCTIONS and spiritual principals.

If you believe the Lord took that punishment for us on the cross for our sins, why do you still place punishment/curse of the law on others for their sins instead of showing them love and mercy under God's grace ???

Because I LOVE GOD first and he showed me the difference between social order and spiritual principals, taught me to distinguish between the two with right judgment and follow his leading in making those distinctions... the dude I vote to execute can receive salvation... but he better hurry up and repent cuz his time is SHORT to get it done before the SWITCH IS THROWN!!!!

... capeesh? This is NOT lacking in mercy... it is doing justice WITH mercy.

 

[KennethC]

Because I LOVE GOD first and he showed me the difference between social order and spiritual principals, taught me to distinguish between the two with right judgment and follow his leading in making those distinctions... the dude I vote to execute can receive salvation... but he better hurry up and repent cuz his time is SHORT to get it done before the SWITCH IS THROWN!!!!

... capeesh? This is NOT lacking in mercy... it is doing justice WITH mercy.

Adding to Micah 6:8 what is not there makes the wrong understanding, as doing justly means exactly to do good in the sight of the Lord. Live a righteous life before the Lord our God, not to administer death penalty to one for their sins while not obeying the mercy and forgiveness shown to them by ministering to them to repent.

We are called to the ministry of reconciliation (2 Corinthians 5:11-21), not to a ministry of condemnation and applying the curse of the law to others for their sins that the Lord took away from us having to face.

We face physical death in the flesh because of Adam, but the curse of the law is corporal punishment (putting to death people for breaking the laws/commandments; committing sin).

We are not bound to the written ordinances of the law, and Christ took away the curse of the law, so why should we hold others to that curse if He lifted it from us ??? That is not showing the same love, mercy, and forgiveness He showed to us, else wise we might as well go sit in the electric chair also and tell them to throw the switch.

So if you believe a person deserves to be put to death for their sins still, then we all might as well line up and be executed to because we all have broken a law worthy of death by the ordinance of the Mosaic laws.

 

[Reborn]

Because I LOVE GOD first and he showed me the difference between social order and spiritual principals, taught me to distinguish between the two with right judgment and follow his leading in making those distinctions... the dude I vote to execute can receive salvation... but he better hurry up and repent cuz his time is SHORT to get it done before the SWITCH IS THROWN!!!!

... capeesh? This is NOT lacking in mercy... it is doing justice WITH mercy.

So,...... play God?

If God wants to "take" a criminals life, He'll let it happen when He's good and ready.
As if He says......"Umm, l'm a bit busy guys...could you all hit that switch for me?"

Super lame. Nice post. Capeesh?

 

[BarlyGurl]

So if you believe a person deserves to be put to death for their sins still, then we all might as well line up and be executed to because we all have broken a law worthy of death by the ordinance of the Mosaic laws.

<HEAD ON DESK>.... failure to effectively communicate.... I gather at this point Ken, you would never spank your child either.... no matter what how disobedient, wicked or how badly your child wrongs another person.... you won't spank him.

 

[JesusistheChrist]

We're familiar with that incident and its implications. Having served on a jury, as I was reading this morning this thought crossed my mind. If you are being questioned as a potential juror for a capital offense, the prosecutors might ask "Would you be willing to assign the death penalty in the event of a guilty verdict?"
I have wavered on this, first believing in a death penalty, then thinking a life sentence with no chance of parole would be sufficient. My reasoning is this: A death sentence would keep a person from heaven, therefore eliminating his chances of eternal salvation. Consequently that would ultimately be an eternal judgement, and only God should make that.
My understanding has become clearer on that and I will detail it another time.
What do you think? Would you give a man a death penalty? Does that sentence have a place in our society?

My reasoning matches your reasoning, apparently. Personally, I cringed as I watched so many professing Christians rejoice years back when Saddam Hussein was hung to death. Rejoicing that a man is going to hell? Not my cup of tea. Not now. Not ever.

 

[JesusistheChrist]

This doesn't actually make a lot of sense. In what way would a death penalty keep someone from heaven? I'm very curious to hear your reasoning behind this.

I think that what he is saying is that if someone who is unsaved is executed, then they are going to go to hell. Contrariwise, if that same individual is given a life sentence in prison, then there is more time available for that individual to potentially repent unto salvation.

 

[BarlyGurl]

So,...... play God?

If God wants to take a criminals life, He'll take it when He's good and ready.
As if He says......"Umm, l'm a bit busy guys...could you all hit that switch for me?"

Super lame. Nice post.

See here is the thing REBORN, I make an effort to NOT make derisive comments pointed at the members of CC. I DO make an effort to communicate clearly and succinctly and ask for more information to be sure I am accurately interpreting what is being said. SO reborn, You can come back and EXPLAIN how your post is appearing to be kinda snotty and sarcastic toward me? You are not required to agree with my position... YOU are required to agree with GOD otherwise it is REBELLION... and the only escape from that is REPENTANCE. SO.... in conclusion here... I am suggesting that you have two choices in addressing me in the future 1) show some respect and consideration in keeping with the CHRISTIAN spirit or 2) DO not address me at all... Thank you.

 

[Reborn]

See here is the thing REBORN, I make an effort to NOT make derisive comments pointed at the members of CC. I DO make an effort to communicate clearly and succinctly and ask for more information to be sure I am accurately interpreting what is being said. SO reborn, You can come back and EXPLAIN how your post is appearing to be kinda snotty and sarcastic toward me? You are not required to agree with my position... YOU are required to agree with GOD otherwise it is REBELLION... and the only escape from that is REPENTANCE. SO.... in conclusion here... I am suggesting that you have two choices in addressing me in the future 1) show some respect and consideration in keeping with the CHRISTIAN spirit or 2) DO not address me at all... Thank you.

It was.
Your opinion on this issue can not be backed by the New Testament.

Its lame.......talking just to be heard.
Take care.

 

[BarlyGurl]

My reasoning matches your reasoning, apparently. Personally, I cringed as I watched so many professing Christians rejoice years back when Saddam Hussein was hung to death. Rejoicing that a man is going to hell? Not my cup of tea. Not now. Not ever.

So in your thinking... is being FOR CAPITAL PUNISHMENT inclusive of CELEBRATING ETERNAL DAMNATION???
I think the two are entirely separate issues. I surely would not DANCE or REJOICE at the death of any person EXCEPT for a brother or sister in Christ whom I KNOW is heaven bound.... cuz that is rejoice worthy!