Render unto Cesar.........

[BarlyGurl]

Her "partner in crime" ought to have been brought before Jesus as well, but this doesn't alter the fact that Jesus didn't condemn her to the "death penalty" which her sin required under the Mosaic law. No, instead, He told her to "go and sin no more". I put down my "stones" years ago and I gave up sitting under gourds and waiting, nay, longing for, the judgment of God to come upon sinners as Jonah did as well.

Good answer... Mis-appropriation of the "law" just the same. I am finding it Very difficult to reconcile that some THINK, because I am FOR social order and FOR capital punishment for the cause of Social Order that I am also somehow a HATER of souls. Just as God says "he desire none to perish" people continue to perish, Being FOR capital punishment does not mean I am condemning a soul to hell... it means that soul is on short time to notice their peril and recognize their sin and repent and receive Jesus as their savior. Throwing stones would be saying..."you shall die and burn in hell"... which some people do think like that... but that IS wrong thinking.

 

[BarlyGurl]

Wrong it was the punishment or curse of the law that He took for our sins on the cross, as Galatians 3:13 clearly says.

For the word of God says anybody who has received the knowledge of the truth but continues to willfully/deliberately sin will still face the second death (fiery indignation of the lake of fire).

The woman caught in adultery, the disciples picking and eating grain on the Sabbath, and the man carrying his bed role on the Sabbath were all punishable by death according to the Mosaic laws. Lord Jesus did not hold any of those situations bound to those punishments of the law, He instead rebuked those who wanted to carry them out.

Sorry ken... you have convoluted and interwoven GOVERNANCE OF SOCIAL ORDER and RELIGIOUS ORDINANCES.

 

[Agricola]

Why do you think it is important to have the death penalty?

 

[AceMichaels]

Does the death penalty help keep social order? I don't think so. Murder still happens.

 

[KennethC]

Good answer... Mis-appropriation of the "law" just the same. I am finding it Very difficult to reconcile that some THINK, because I am FOR social order and FOR capital punishment for the cause of Social Order that I am also somehow a HATER of souls. Just as God says "he desire none to perish" people continue to perish, Being FOR capital punishment does not mean I am condemning a soul to hell... it means that soul is on short time to notice their peril and recognize their sin and repent and receive Jesus as their savior. Throwing stones would be saying..."you shall die and burn in hell"... which some people do think like that... but that IS wrong thinking.

But at the same time who are we to make a judgment call on another to give them less time to repent then what He gives us ???

Do you think a person who has lived a sinful life all their life living to be 89, and finally repents on their death bed deserved more time then those who go to prison ???

Society says this sin deserves prison time and death penalty, but other sins are acceptable and do not require prison time or death penalty. You see why we can not go by societies standards over God's.

God's law says homosexuality is an abomination, but society says it is acceptable.

God's law says adultery is punishable by death in the OT, society says it is okay just get a divorce and/or move on.

How about 1 Corinthians 5 does Apostle Paul say to put to death those in the congregation that refuse to give up their sinful lifestyles ??? No he says to cast them out of the church and not associate with them any more !!!

 

[KennethC]

Sorry ken... you have convoluted and interwoven GOVERNANCE OF SOCIAL ORDER and RELIGIOUS ORDINANCES.

No I go by the word of God no matter what social order says, as society does a lot of things making sins acceptable and no longer punishable by the Mosaic laws. Just like you are doing by saying those should still get punished while you do not for yours.

Again what commandments have you broken, how many Mosaic laws are you guilty of not keeping all the time ???

 

[BarlyGurl]

No I go by the word of God no matter what social order says, as society does a lot of things making sins acceptable and no longer punishable by the Mosaic laws. Just like you are doing by saying those should still get punished while you do not for yours.

Again what commandments have you broken, how many Mosaic laws are you guilty of not keeping all the time ???

Okay ken.... the best I can tell is YOU'RE alluding jesus died so his disciples would promote DISORDER AND LAWLESSNESS in the world... I say he died so we could be empowered be a witness OF order and law-keeping, by HIS spirit, to the world.

 

[shotgunner]

Romans 13:1King James Version (KJV)13 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

 

[KennethC]

Okay ken.... the best I can tell is YOU'RE alluding jesus died so his disciples would promote DISORDER AND LAWLESSNESS in the world... I say he died so we could be empowered be a witness OF order and law-keeping, by HIS spirit, to the world.

Nowhere did I say to promote disorder and lawlessness, because I do believe in the New Covenant there are a set of standards the believers in Christ will uphold. They are not the 613 written ordinances of the Mosaic laws though !!!

The 10 commandments (moral commands of God)............YES

The perfect law of liberty (Christ's teachings and commands in the gospels)...........YES

Acts 15:20, 29.............................YES

Walking by the Spirit (His guidance, fruits, and gifts).........................YES


We must learn to rightly divide the word of God and know how or what of the OT still holds water to be followed under the new covenant of the NT. The curse of the law has been, which is encompassed by the punishments for breaking the laws was blotted out and done away with.

The laws themselves are only in effect to those who transgress the laws to point out their sinful ways to them and draw them to their need for a savior in Christ, and repent of those sinful ways.

Lord Jesus crucifixion was God showing love to us sinners to have His Son die in our place, take the punishment (dept) for our sins on Himself. He paid it in full !!!

We therefore no longer face that punishment by the law, so why do you wish to keep others bound to it ???

Again I will ask what Mosaic laws have you broken, and which of the 10 Commandments have you not kept all the time but guilty of breaking ???

 

[KennethC]

Romans 13:1King James Version (KJV)13 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

Romans 13 has already been discussed, and there are multiple examples in the bible that if those laws or governing authorities do not operate under the ways of God then we are to obey God rather then man. (Acts 5:29)

I ask you the same question I asked BarlyGurl;

What Mosaic laws are you guilty of not keeping thus breaking, and how many of the 10 Commandments have you broken at any given time ???

Should you be put to death to then ???

 

[cmarieh]

We're familiar with that incident and its implications. Having served on a jury, as I was reading this morning this thought crossed my mind. If you are being questioned as a potential juror for a capital offense, the prosecutors might ask "Would you be willing to assign the death penalty in the event of a guilty verdict?"
I have wavered on this, first believing in a death penalty, then thinking a life sentence with no chance of parole would be sufficient. My reasoning is this: A death sentence would keep a person from heaven, therefore eliminating his chances of eternal salvation. Consequently that would ultimately be an eternal judgement, and only God should make that.
My understanding has become clearer on that and I will detail it another time.
What do you think? Would you give a man a death penalty? Does that sentence have a place in our society?

Honestly, I have never thought of that angle before and it really gives me something to think long and hard about. Personally, I feel as though each person that has been found guilty is God's creation and is loved by someone here on earth. I think it depends on the severity of the crime and how many victims there are. But again for everthing we say and do there is either a positive or negative consequence and we are to be under submission to the authority God has appointed us to, whether it is government, parents, spouse, and of course God. God is our ultimate judge. I believe that there are many guilty criminals sitting in a jail cell that do have a personal intimate relationship with our heavenly father. And one day we will see them in heaven.
I do believe Reborn had an excellent point that God will do whatever he is going to do when he wants, for his timing is perfect. He knows everything that will happen before it does, he is awesome that way.

 

[shotgunner]

Romans 13 has already been discussed, and there are multiple examples in the bible that if those laws or governing authorities do not operate under the ways of God then we are to obey God rather then man. (Acts 5:29)

I ask you the same question I asked BarlyGurl;

What Mosaic laws are you guilty of not keeping thus breaking, and how many of the 10 Commandments have you broken at any given time ???

Should you be put to death to then ???

If I have murdered others and will continue to do so, then yes I should be put to death.

 

[BarlyGurl]

Romans 13 has already been discussed, and there are multiple examples in the bible that if those laws or governing authorities do not operate under the ways of God then we are to obey God rather then man. (Acts 5:29)

I ask you the same question I asked BarlyGurl;

What Mosaic laws are you guilty of not keeping thus breaking, and how many of the 10 Commandments have you broken at any given time ???

Should you be put to death to then ???

It is not I who lives, the person I <Barly> formerly has put away the former things, WAS put to DEATH and resurrected in CHRIST, Now born again by the spirit, it is HE who lives in me.

Capital punishment in NO WAY infringes on another person having the same oppurtunity... rather might encourage the very GOOD receiving of the same for the person who is on death row... having been found guilty of social crimes worthy of death.

 

[KennethC]

If I have murdered others and will continue to do so, then yes I should be put to death.

It is not I who lives, the person I <Barly> formerly has put away the former things, WAS put to DEATH and resurrected in CHRIST, Now born again by the spirit, it is HE who lives in me.

Capital punishment in NO WAY infringes on another person having the same oppurtunity... rather might encourage the very GOOD receiving of the same for the person who is on death row... having been found guilty of social crimes worthy of death.

Again neither of you have answered my questions, and still are only operating by society standards over what the Word of God really says.


Those who sit in prison for life have a chance to be born again to, nowhere like I said before are given the right to make a judgment call on another to shorten their lifespan and not show mercy and forgiveness to that individual.

If you believe these people should be put to death for their sins, then you also should be put to death for yours.
Because if you place the curse of law binding to them, then it also has to be binding to you.

So stand still while I find some worthy to cast those stones at you, wait a minute that's right Jesus said none of us are worthy for we are all guilty !!!

Be careful making judgment calls on ones' life, because the Lord said by the measure you judge you also will be judged !!!

 

[crossnote]

The word of God also shows that if what the rulers do contradicts His ways we are not held to follow, for we are to obey God before man. (Acts 5:29)

This here in Romans 13 is also taken out of context to accept the death penalty by Christians, however administering wrath does not always mean putting a person to death. When God's wrath is poured out in the bible on some we can see that not always was it death.

(Revelation 9:6) And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

Justice/wrath can be a lifetime of imprisonment so that they are given a chance to be ministered to as the Word of God commands, to try and lead them to repentance. If you take that chance out of their hands and place the curse of the law on them, do you think that God then should put the curse of the law back on you for yours ???

Swords in those days weren't for spanking. Your case is futile, I'm convinced now that you just like to argue...just to argue. Gen 9:6 has never been rescinded...

Genesis 9:6 (KJV) Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

Every soul (us), sword (death penalty) are not out of context..

Romans 13:1-5 (KJV)
1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.

.

 

[crossnote]

Because I LOVE GOD first and he showed me the difference between social order and spiritual principals, taught me to distinguish between the two with right judgment and follow his leading in making those distinctions... the dude I vote to execute can receive salvation... but he better hurry up and repent cuz his time is SHORT to get it done before the SWITCH IS THROWN!!!!

... capeesh? This is NOT lacking in mercy... it is doing justice WITH mercy.

Good point. When facing the real prospects of imminent death, serious thinking ensues.

 

[BarlyGurl]

>>>>Be careful making judgment calls on ones' life, because the Lord said by the measure you judge you also will be judged !!!


I will... Being FOR capital punishment as a SOCIAL ADMINISTRATIVE MEASURE.... is NOT JUDGING a soul to eternal condemnation.... THAT is God's decision. DISTINCTIONS!!!!

 

[KennethC]

Swords in those days weren't for spanking. Your case is futile, I'm convinced now that you just like to argue...just to argue. Gen 9:6 has never been rescinded...


Every soul (us), sword (death penalty) are not out of context..

.

The swords that Jesus told the disciples to go and by were for self defense, not carrying out the death penalty.

Again you are bringing you OT written ordinances that do not apply, and a misrendering of Romans 13 that I have addressed already. Minister of wrath for God does not always mean putting to death as Revelation 9:6 shows.

Again you have the examples of the woman in adultery, and the two cases of working on the Sabbath which all three under the Mosaic laws were punishable by death. But in the new covenant Jesus rebuked those who wanted to carry out those punishments on those caught in these acts.

The question is to you to; What Mosaic laws have you broken or not kept, and which of the 10 Commandments have you broken at one time or another ??? Should you be stoned and put to death to then ???

 

[crossnote]

So,...... play God?

If God wants to "take" a criminals life, He'll let it happen when He's good and ready.
As if He says......"Umm, l'm a bit busy guys...could you all hit that switch for me?"

Super lame. Nice post. Capeesh?

God often uses means in carrying out judgment.

 

[KennethC]

>>>>Be careful making judgment calls on ones' life, because the Lord said by the measure you judge you also will be judged !!!


I will... Being FOR capital punishment as a SOCIAL ADMINISTRATIVE MEASURE.... is NOT JUDGING a soul to eternal condemnation.... THAT is God's decision. DISTINCTIONS!!!!

Lord Jesus said no to the curse of the law being handed out in 3 separate incidents in the NT and took the punishment for us !!!

Also still refuse to answer what laws or commandments you have broken ???