"replacement theology" - what is it?

[eternally-gratefull]

31And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call
his name JESUS. 32He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest:
and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33And he shall reign over [the house of Jacob] for ever;
and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

3Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and shew thee great and mighty things,
which thou knowest not. 4For thus saith the Lord, the God of Israel, concerning
the houses of this city, and concerning the houses of the kings of Judah,
which are thrown down by the mounts, and by the sword;
-
Jesus is both the “root” and the “offspring” of David (Revelation 22:16).
Since He was the “root,” the throne was His before David was born.
David merely sat upon the Eternal’s throne.

Secondly, since Jesus was David’s lawful fleshly Son, this same throne shall
once more become His right by inheritance, continuing David’s dynasty.
-
The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet,
until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.
-

Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put
all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him.

But now we see not yet all things put under him.
-
And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying,
The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ;
and he shall reign for ever and ever.

12His eyes shall be red with wine, and his teeth white with milk.

And he shall rule with a rod of Iron.

The nations have not witnessed the power of the risen Christ sitting on his throne.

 

[zone]

well thats your opinion. And I agree to disagree.

If you curse a persons offspring, you are cursing that person. And history shows, God has kept his promise..

EG, are you willing to admit publically if you are wrong?
you know the scriptures, even in the Hebrew, make the promise of blessing and cursing to abram ONLY.
that's a really simple one to admit to.
check it out....it's a given

 

[zone]

And he shall rule with a rod of Iron.

The nations have not witnessed the power of the risen Christ sitting on his throne.

fulfilled.

Psalm 2
The Reign of the Lord’s Anointed

1Why do the nations ragea
and the peoples plot in vain?
2The kings of the earth set themselves,
and the rulers take counsel together,
against the Lord and against his Anointed, saying,
3“Let us burst their bonds apart
and cast away their cords from us.”

4He who sits in the heavens laughs;
the Lord holds them in derision.
5Then he will speak to them in his wrath,
and terrify them in his fury, saying,
6“As for me, I have set my King
on Zion, my holy hill.”

7I will tell of the decree:
The Lord said to me, “You are my Son;
today I have begotten you.
8Ask of me, and I will make the nations your heritage,
and the ends of the earth your possession.
9You shall breakb them with a rod of iron
and dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel.”

10Now therefore, O kings, be wise;
be warned, O rulers of the earth.
11Serve the Lord with fear,
and rejoice with trembling.
12Kiss the Son,
lest he be angry, and you perish in the way,
for his wrath is quickly kindled.
Blessed are all who take refuge in him.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

fulfilled.

Psalm 2
The Reign of the Lord’s Anointed

1Why do the nations ragea
and the peoples plot in vain?
2The kings of the earth set themselves,
and the rulers take counsel together,
against the Lord and against his Anointed, saying,
3“Let us burst their bonds apart
and cast away their cords from us.”

4He who sits in the heavens laughs;
the Lord holds them in derision.
5Then he will speak to them in his wrath,
and terrify them in his fury, saying,
6“As for me, I have set my King
on Zion, my holy hill.”

7I will tell of the decree:
The Lord said to me, “You are my Son;
today I have begotten you.
8Ask of me, and I will make the nations your heritage,
and the ends of the earth your possession.
9You shall breakb them with a rod of iron
and dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel.”

10Now therefore, O kings, be wise;
be warned, O rulers of the earth.
11Serve the Lord with fear,
and rejoice with trembling.
12Kiss the Son,
lest he be angry, and you perish in the way,
for his wrath is quickly kindled.
Blessed are all who take refuge in him.

vs 6 is happening today

The last bolded part is not happening today,, The kings of the earth Mock God, and are opposed to him.

If that is jesus ruling with a rod of Iron.. You can have that jesus, he has no power.

 

[trofimus]

The passage says the city is prepaired AS a bride, not the bride herself.

It continues:

"One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and said to me, "Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb."
And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God."
Rev 21:10

Then there is a long description of various things in the city, but no other bride after. So it is the city.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

EG, are you willing to admit publically if you are wrong?

I have done it many times.

you know the scriptures, even in the Hebrew, make the promise of blessing and cursing to abram ONLY.
that's a really simple one to admit to.
check it out....it's a given

Why would I admit it? Its your opinion. You have given no proof.

everything given to abraham concernednot only him but his offspring. even the term "in you shall all the nations be blessed" was not a reference to Abram only but him and his offspring (Christ)

You can't have it both ways,, you can't say this fits for one area, and then not for the other,

Abrahams son also made the same promise when he passed it on to his son. SO I will chose to follow what they thought Jesus meant, and had faith God would keep his promise so strong, they knew to let their sons know this blessing and cursing was for them also.

Try studying it.

and now the question is reversed, Can you admit when you are wrong?

 

[trofimus]

If the city is the bride, who are the men who live on the earth?

Which ones?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It continues:

"One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and said to me, "Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb."
And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God."
Rev 21:10

Then there is a long description of various things in the city, but no other bride after. So it is the city.

yeah, it continues

You did not read the furst part. where it said the city was prepared "LIKE A BRIDE"

Like a bride and a bride are not the same, so....

we will have to agree to disagree, We will all know the truth some day. When we also witness it. as I believe in this aspect. we will.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Which ones?

These...

rev 21:
Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. [SUP]4 [/SUP]And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”

 

[trofimus]

These...

rev 21:
Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. [SUP]4 [/SUP]And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”

They are probably us. The city is a description of a perfect, prepared church that is yet to be revealed. It is "coming".

But yeah, this is not so important issue, we can let it be for now. I am sure I would have nothing against it to be a real city and you would have nothing against it to be the church, in the end.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

So The temple in Revelation was the temple during the time of Christ. and That temple has long been destroyed and Rev temple is in the past... it's gone. . . . The new heaven and a new earth are here now? The holy city, new Jerusalem has come down? The temple in Revelation which is within the new heaven and upon the new earth, which is in the holy city, new Jerusalem is in the past . . . it's gone? How can that be? John is being given a vision of the future - John did not write Revelation, according to most scholars until 90AD so how could the temple he is "seeing" be the temple during the time of Christ and be destroyed?

Just wondering . . .

From what?

"Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.” And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem..."

We know who is the wife of the Christ - church.

"The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb."

Twelve apostles are the gates to Church, because of their gospel preaching to whole the world.

Etc, etc. Every description fits the Church perfectly.

God loved Israel and married her. He was frustrated when she was selfish and stubborn, and angry when she deserted Him for other gods and committed "adultery". Eventually He divorced her. In spite of their marital difficulties, He promised to give her a new heart, marry her again and give her a bright and eternal future. In the Four Gospels Jesus is referred to as the bridegroom of Israel, then in the Church Epistles the Christian Church is his bride, and in the book of Revelation every saved person becomes his bride and wife.

Then every saved person as his bride and wife dwell in the holy city, the New Jerusalem - Not just the born again believers that make up the "church"., i.e. the body of Christ. There is NO temple in the holy city, the New Jerusalem.

 

[zone]

If I knew nothing of Scripture. If I understood nothing of Jewish history. If I had no concept of the persecution of these people.
If I was clueless as to why and how their modern nation came into being TODAY...

ALL I would have to do is look at WHO hates and opposes them, who don't even believe they have a right to exist in the tiny speck of land they own, to know which side of the ledger I should be on.

The political left. Muslims of every stripe. The boycott, divest, and sanction movement. Major media. Most world governments. And of course, Christians that ascribe to replacement theology.

I will love ALL people. Especially the Jews. And continue to pray for the peace of Jerusalem, and that the people respond to the one true Gospel. THAT is our job as Christians.

could you please do your lobbying on another thread?
you're repeatedly bringing things here hoping to cause strife.
I haven't so far reported you, so please stay on topic

 

[zone]

there is a throne so there is a temple. The term is use all the way through the Bible; why stop NOW?

Rev 21
I saw no temple in the city, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.

 

[tanakh]

As I have stated numberous times, This line of reaoning is invalid. Because the temple has never been a means of forgiveness of even one persons sin. God himself has not had a presence in the Holy of Holys for probably centuries at the time of Christ, Probebably long before Babylon destroyed the first.

Remember, a priest had to be cleansed befor he entered in the presence of God or he would be killed instantly. Plase do not tell you you think the high priest of Israel were cleaned before they entered in. The moment jesus died, Ciaphis was in the temple making atonement for Isreal. Did they have to pull his lifeless body out of the inner sanctum because he entered unclean.



They have had 2, And non of them were this way either. so whats your point? Does this mean Israel can not make number 3?



God destroyed the temple because of the Lev 26 warnings.. If he wanted the sacrifices to stop the moment he died, He would have caused the temple to fall the night he died, when he said it is finished,

Again, This line of reasoning makes no sense.

Saying the antichrist (or whatever name one wants to give him) stops sacrifice and offering means just that, He causes it to stop. It does not mean the need stops. It says they are ongoing, and he puts and end to it, by making the inner sanctum unclean (abomination which causes desolation) I think it is dangerous to try to make this means other things, or try to give it a spiritual interpretation.



edit, Just noticed the 1948 remark, The temple is still desolate. It did not get rebuilt in 1948.

When Jesus cleared the Money changers from the temple he called it his Fathers House. If God didnt reside there he wouldn't have said it. He also told the religious leaders that their house was left desolate. When he died the veil that separated the Holy of Holies from the people was torn in two which meant that access to the Father could now be gained through him and not the Priesthood and sacrifices. Yom Kippur was observed to cleanse the people from their sins. The sins of Israel were placed on the scape goat. This was done at the Temple. If the Temple and sacrificial system didnt take away sins before Christ what did? what was the point of it?

 

[trofimus]

“Abraham is our father,” they answered.

“If you were Abraham’s children,” said Jesus, “then you wouldc do what Abraham did. As it is, you are looking for a way to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. You are doing the works of your own father.”

John 8:39

 

[eternally-gratefull]

When Jesus cleared the Money changers from the temple he called it his Fathers House. If God didnt reside there he wouldn't have said it. He also told the religious leaders that their house was left desolate. When he died the veil that separated the Holy of Holies from the people was torn in two which meant that access to the Father could now be gained through him and not the Priesthood and sacrifices. Yom Kippur was observed to cleanse the people from their sins. The sins of Israel were placed on the scape goat. This was done at the Temple. If the Temple and sacrificial system didnt take away sins before Christ what did? what was the point of it?

My point was God was not present in the holy of holy's, unless you think he was, then I must wonder, when ciaphis entered the literal presence of god and survived, That would seem to mean God accepted cisaphis' Sacrifice.what does that say about Christ? I say this because that is my context. God was not present, I never said it was not his house.



The temple had always been Gods house, It represented him. And it will if it is rebuilt. You do not need sacrifice and burnt offering in the house of God to make it Gods house. He proved that when he opened the holy of holy's to all . It was also his house for the next 40 years. When the jews still sacrificed..

Which is why I said, It is not a valid argument.. If the jews rebuild. sacrifice or not. It would not matter. it would be no different than in christs day and the days between in and AD 70.

 

[dcontroversal]

Hello dcontroversal,

There are three who are said that will rule with a rod of iron

Believers who overcome:

"To the one who is victorious and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations—that one ‘will rule them with an iron scepter and will dash them to pieces like pottery —just as I have received authority from my Father."

The Male child/144,000:

"She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.

The Lord Jesus:

"The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter."

In Rev.14, it says the following regarding the 144,000:
"No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they remained virgins."

The scripture above reveals that the 144,000 are all males, ergo, male child. These 144,000 come out of Israel (gives birth to) and will be caught up to God's throne in the middle of the seven years.

Another truth is that Jesus does not fit the criteria of the male child.

144,000 = Escapes from the dragon/Satan by being caught up to God's throne unharmed and out of the dragon's reach

Jesus = Jesus did not escape, but was crucified and resurrected three days later.

Jesus does not fit the criteria of the male child. The Spirit has lead me to understand that the male child is a collective name for the 144,000 who will be the first fruits to God out of Israel.

The 144,000 are indeed the first fruits and is the same word tied to ad applied unto Jesus, however....if ALL of the facts are applied unto the 144,000 we find the following.....

1. They are the Train of the Lord
2. They are all males
3. They have lived<--redeemed from among men
4. They have died<---redeemed from the earth
5. They have never been defiled with women
6. They have never lied or had guile in their mouths
7. They are virgins (see 5)
8. They are innocent
9. The ONLY two LOCATIONS MENTIONED are
a) In heaven before the throne
b) Following the Lord where ever he goes
10. They are identified with Jesus as the first fruits
11. They alone learn a song that NO one can know but them which puts them into a category by themselves

There is ONE group in history that fits these characteristics.......and again the facts do not fit your conclusion bro.....any reference to anyone ruling with a rod of Iron is indicative of Jesus...either directly, indirectly, symbolically, literally, figuratively...

Jesus is not going to share his throne with anyone....He alone is God and worthy!

 

[Persuaded]

The 144,000 are indeed the first fruits and is the same word tied to ad applied unto Jesus, however....if ALL of the facts are applied unto the 144,000 we find the following.....

1. They are the Train of the Lord
2. They are all males
3. They have lived<--redeemed from among men
4. They have died<---redeemed from the earth
5. They have never been defiled with women
6. They have never lied or had guile in their mouths
7. They are virgins (see 5)
8. They are innocent
9. The ONLY two LOCATIONS MENTIONED are
a) In heaven before the throne
b) Following the Lord where ever he goes
10. They are identified with Jesus as the first fruits
11. They alone learn a song that NO one can know but them which puts them into a category by themselves

There is ONE group in history that fits these characteristics.......and again the facts do not fit your conclusion bro.....any reference to anyone ruling with a rod of Iron is indicative of Jesus...either directly, indirectly, symbolically, literally, figuratively...

Jesus is not going to share his throne with anyone....He alone is God and worthy!

You said one group, but did not say who you think that group is.
May I suggest two groups?
I believe that they were definitely babies when they died.
I believe they are those who died at the hand of Pharoah in Egypt while Moses was spared, and those who died at the hand of Herod while Jesus was spared.
The total of those two events could very well be 144.000.

 

[trofimus]

What about this?

"Through your own fault you will lose the inheritance I gave you. I will enslave you to your enemies in a land you do not know, for you have kindled my anger, and it will burn forever." Jer 17:4

 

[dcontroversal]

You said one group, but did not say who you think that group is.
May I suggest two groups?
I believe that they were definitely babies when they died.
I believe they are those who died at the hand of Pharoah in Egypt while Moses was spared, and those who died at the hand of Herod while Jesus was spared.
The total of those two events could very well be 144.000.

Based upon all the children of Jacob being attributed unto Rachael, the prophesy of Rachael weeping for her children and it coming to pass when Herod had all the BOYS UNDER TWO KILLED in ALL the COASTS of ISRAEL I believe 100% that this group of boys is the 144,000.....and as the first fruits offered by JESUS unto the FATHER there can be no other group that is better suited....144,000 JEWISH MALES, all VIRGINS, NO GUILE and the 1st MARTYRS in the particular name of and place of JESUS......this dawned on men like 10 years ago and makes complete SENSE when all the facts are examined!