Revelation 20:1-10 discussion
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To all you 'amillennialist' I would ask you to explained the following passage, especially the meaning of the question that was asked by the disciples of Jesus Christ who was in His resurrected body...
Acts 1:1-9 1 The former treatise have I made , O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach , 2 Until the day in which he was taken up , after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen : 3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God: 4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. 5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. 6 When they therefore were come together , they asked of him, saying , Lord , wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? 7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. 8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. 9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld , he was taken up ; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
What were the disciples referring to? This was the last question and answer that they were able to ask of Him before He was taken up and by the answer that the risen Lord gave to them, it does not look like He had restored the kingdom to Israel but referred it to the Father. Was the kingdom rent from Israel with the promise of it being restored? When the disciples understood that the kingdom was going to be restored to Israel, was it false doctrine or a wrong understanding on their part? Did the resurrected Christ, who had power over the grave, correct their error or did He also understand that the kingdom would be restored to Israel on the Father's time table?
OR - Do you believe that this is spiritual Israel being referred to and the kingdom has already been restored to and through the church? If that is true, then show who restored it and when that restoration of the kingdom took place using the testimony and evidence of the New Testament scriptures under the new covenant. Show also how that kingdom was restored through the church (if that is what you believe) and the preaching of the kingdom of God and I am not talking about salvation or redemption but rather restoration of the kingdom that Israel once had? What was the former glory of the kingdom that would be restored to Israel?
Acts 1:1-9 1 The former treatise have I made , O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach , 2 Until the day in which he was taken up , after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen : 3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God: 4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. 5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. 6 When they therefore were come together , they asked of him, saying , Lord , wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? 7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. 8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. 9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld , he was taken up ; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
What were the disciples referring to? This was the last question and answer that they were able to ask of Him before He was taken up and by the answer that the risen Lord gave to them, it does not look like He had restored the kingdom to Israel but referred it to the Father. Was the kingdom rent from Israel with the promise of it being restored? When the disciples understood that the kingdom was going to be restored to Israel, was it false doctrine or a wrong understanding on their part? Did the resurrected Christ, who had power over the grave, correct their error or did He also understand that the kingdom would be restored to Israel on the Father's time table?
OR - Do you believe that this is spiritual Israel being referred to and the kingdom has already been restored to and through the church? If that is true, then show who restored it and when that restoration of the kingdom took place using the testimony and evidence of the New Testament scriptures under the new covenant. Show also how that kingdom was restored through the church (if that is what you believe) and the preaching of the kingdom of God and I am not talking about salvation or redemption but rather restoration of the kingdom that Israel once had? What was the former glory of the kingdom that would be restored to Israel?
I hear you, but do you think the kingdom of God was ever established on earth?
Because that is what rev. 20 says.
Infact it gets very specific.
As in the Holy People will be cornered into one city.
Again, I have to ask, when has it (the times, seasons of the church age been less evil than at other times?)
Do you think people being ripped apart for their faith by horses in the Roman times was less evil than people being burned at the stake for writing and spreading the gospel 1000 years later?
Is this the thousand year reign?
I don't see it.
Because that is what rev. 20 says.
Infact it gets very specific.
As in the Holy People will be cornered into one city.
Again, I have to ask, when has it (the times, seasons of the church age been less evil than at other times?)
Do you think people being ripped apart for their faith by horses in the Roman times was less evil than people being burned at the stake for writing and spreading the gospel 1000 years later?
Is this the thousand year reign?
I don't see it.
Matthew 12:28
New International Version (©1984)
But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
English Standard Version (©2001)
But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
"But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
New International Version (©1984)
But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
English Standard Version (©2001)
But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
"But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
Matthew 12:29
New International Version (©1984)
"Or again, how can anyone enter a strong man's house and carry off his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man? Then he can rob his house.
New Living Translation (©2007)
For who is powerful enough to enter the house of a strong man like Satan and plunder his goods? Only someone even stronger--someone who could tie him up and then plunder his house.
English Standard Version (©2001)
Or how can someone enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? Then indeed he may plunder his house.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
"Or how can anyone enter the strong man's house and carry off his property, unless he first binds the strong man? And then he will plunder his house.
New International Version (©1984)
"Or again, how can anyone enter a strong man's house and carry off his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man? Then he can rob his house.
New Living Translation (©2007)
For who is powerful enough to enter the house of a strong man like Satan and plunder his goods? Only someone even stronger--someone who could tie him up and then plunder his house.
English Standard Version (©2001)
Or how can someone enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? Then indeed he may plunder his house.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
"Or how can anyone enter the strong man's house and carry off his property, unless he first binds the strong man? And then he will plunder his house.
Acts 1:8
New International Version (©1984)
But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."
New Living Translation (©2007)
But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you. And you will be my witnesses, telling people about me everywhere--in Jerusalem, throughout Judea, in Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."
English Standard Version (©2001)
But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth."
New International Version (©1984)
But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."
New Living Translation (©2007)
But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you. And you will be my witnesses, telling people about me everywhere--in Jerusalem, throughout Judea, in Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."
English Standard Version (©2001)
But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth."
John 18:36
New International Version (©1984)
Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place."
New Living Translation (©2007)
Jesus answered, "My Kingdom is not an earthly kingdom. If it were, my followers would fight to keep me from being handed over to the Jewish leaders. But my Kingdom is not of this world."
English Standard Version (©2001)
Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But my kingdom is not from the world.”
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm."
New International Version (©1984)
Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place."
New Living Translation (©2007)
Jesus answered, "My Kingdom is not an earthly kingdom. If it were, my followers would fight to keep me from being handed over to the Jewish leaders. But my Kingdom is not of this world."
English Standard Version (©2001)
Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But my kingdom is not from the world.”
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm."
Red,
You must ask the right question, to get a right answer, the disciples at that time, as with all of the Nation Israel, were under the same assumption, that He would restore that physical Nation.
But they had no understanding of what they ask.
Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Exo 4:22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
If you have eyes to see, you will see, that there is ONLY ONE Israel of God.
You must ask the right question, to get a right answer, the disciples at that time, as with all of the Nation Israel, were under the same assumption, that He would restore that physical Nation.
But they had no understanding of what they ask.
Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Exo 4:22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
If you have eyes to see, you will see, that there is ONLY ONE Israel of God.
Yes?
and.....
Was Jesus riding the white horse when He cast out demons?
Was Satan thrown into the bottomless pit then?
Are you saying Satan was bound when Jesus came in the form of a suffering servant?
I will point out what the Apostle Paul said well after Jesus' ascension.
2 Thessalonians 2:7-12
King James Version (KJV)
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth(restrains) will let(restrain), until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
and.....
Was Jesus riding the white horse when He cast out demons?
Was Satan thrown into the bottomless pit then?
Are you saying Satan was bound when Jesus came in the form of a suffering servant?
I will point out what the Apostle Paul said well after Jesus' ascension.
2 Thessalonians 2:7-12
King James Version (KJV)
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth(restrains) will let(restrain), until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
when is that Wicked revealed?
when the restrainer stops restraining.
what happens after the Wicked is revealed?
THERE IS A "LITTLE WHILE"....then....Jesus comes.
what happens when Jesus comes?
a rerun of everything had already happened?
or is that what Rev 20 actually is? < a zoom-out, looking down on, and/back and forward (a separate vision within the vision) viewing the entire Messianic Age (this world), including the "little while".....
".....Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, 3and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended. After that he must be released for a little while.
"7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth(restrains) will let(restrain), until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:"
whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:"
whom the Lord......with the brightness of his coming:"
the Lord....the brightness of his coming:"
the Lord coming:"
when the restrainer stops restraining.
what happens after the Wicked is revealed?
THERE IS A "LITTLE WHILE"....then....Jesus comes.
what happens when Jesus comes?
a rerun of everything had already happened?
or is that what Rev 20 actually is? < a zoom-out, looking down on, and/back and forward (a separate vision within the vision) viewing the entire Messianic Age (this world), including the "little while".....
".....Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, 3and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended. After that he must be released for a little while.
"7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth(restrains) will let(restrain), until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:"
whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:"
whom the Lord......with the brightness of his coming:"
the Lord....the brightness of his coming:"
the Lord coming:"
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1
Oh my word.
This is low hanging fruit for me by now.
The Greek word for 1000 "chilioi" is actually an indefinite number, it means "a thousand".
If the writer had meant a definite solid "one thousand" he would have used chilias.
Chilias = "one thousand" in Greek and it is a definite number.
When "a thousand" is used in the Bible it's always in an indefinite sense.
It's meant for a long undefined time.
Psalm 50:10
for every animal of the forest is mine,
and the cattle on a thousand hills.
Is the cattle on a 1001st hill not God's?
Of course not!
Some ask if Jesus is reigning now, why isn't there peace on the Earth?
Again, very easy.
First the text never says the 1000 year reign is an earthly reign of peace.
All verses used to point to a 1000 year peaceful reign are actually better
fulfilled within the context of the final new heavens and new Earth.
The Bible says he must reign until he puts his enemies under his feet. This means him reigning, and the existence of enemies are NOT mutually exclusive.
1 Cor 15
25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he “has put everything under his feet.”[c] Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.
Some may say, "But it says Satan is bound with a chain, so he can't tempt people. There is clearly evil in the world today!"
Yes there is indeed evil in the world today.
First of all, even if Satan and all his minions were 100% restrained, there is enough sin left in human flesh to commit tons of evil.
You have to ask what Satan is bound from doing. If you read further you find out.
7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them.
He's being bound from deceiving the nations into that final battle.
Remember, the Biblical concept of binding doesn't always mean 100% restraint.
Satan was BOUND from killing Job, but he still did a lot.
Job 1
12 The Lord said to Satan, “Very well, then, everything he has is in your power, but on the man himself do not lay a finger.”
So the 1000 year reign is happening right now.
Jesus is on the throne, reigning and ruling
His enemies are being put under his feet every time someone comes into the kingdom.
Satan is bound from deceiving the world into that final battle.
Hebrews 2
8 You have put all things in subjection under his feet.”
For in that He put all in subjection under him, He left nothing that is not put under him. But now we do not yet see all things put under him. 9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone.
By the way. I'm not getting in any tar-doll debates over this.
This is how I see it.
So that does it.
Thanks for reading.
This is low hanging fruit for me by now.
The Greek word for 1000 "chilioi" is actually an indefinite number, it means "a thousand".
If the writer had meant a definite solid "one thousand" he would have used chilias.
Chilias = "one thousand" in Greek and it is a definite number.
When "a thousand" is used in the Bible it's always in an indefinite sense.
It's meant for a long undefined time.
Psalm 50:10
for every animal of the forest is mine,
and the cattle on a thousand hills.
Is the cattle on a 1001st hill not God's?
Of course not!
Some ask if Jesus is reigning now, why isn't there peace on the Earth?
Again, very easy.
First the text never says the 1000 year reign is an earthly reign of peace.
All verses used to point to a 1000 year peaceful reign are actually better
fulfilled within the context of the final new heavens and new Earth.
The Bible says he must reign until he puts his enemies under his feet. This means him reigning, and the existence of enemies are NOT mutually exclusive.
1 Cor 15
25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he “has put everything under his feet.”[c] Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.
Some may say, "But it says Satan is bound with a chain, so he can't tempt people. There is clearly evil in the world today!"
Yes there is indeed evil in the world today.
First of all, even if Satan and all his minions were 100% restrained, there is enough sin left in human flesh to commit tons of evil.
You have to ask what Satan is bound from doing. If you read further you find out.
7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them.
He's being bound from deceiving the nations into that final battle.
Remember, the Biblical concept of binding doesn't always mean 100% restraint.
Satan was BOUND from killing Job, but he still did a lot.
Job 1
12 The Lord said to Satan, “Very well, then, everything he has is in your power, but on the man himself do not lay a finger.”
So the 1000 year reign is happening right now.
Jesus is on the throne, reigning and ruling
His enemies are being put under his feet every time someone comes into the kingdom.
Satan is bound from deceiving the world into that final battle.
Hebrews 2
8 You have put all things in subjection under his feet.”
For in that He put all in subjection under him, He left nothing that is not put under him. But now we do not yet see all things put under him. 9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone.
By the way. I'm not getting in any tar-doll debates over this.
This is how I see it.
So that does it.
Thanks for reading.
A
Ive never studied this so i dont know what im talking about
But i dont credit sickness or plagues to satan. Judgements yes.
Jesus said His kingdom was not of this world and i can whip up
plenty of easy understandable verses to show we are in His kingdom now.
He is siting on Davids everlasting throne now.
Religion is used for control, men invent them for that.
But im not saying satan isnt at work in them either.
Wars are also about control and money, men love them.
Im smelling the bread.
But i dont credit sickness or plagues to satan. Judgements yes.
Jesus said His kingdom was not of this world and i can whip up
plenty of easy understandable verses to show we are in His kingdom now.
He is siting on Davids everlasting throne now.
Religion is used for control, men invent them for that.
But im not saying satan isnt at work in them either.
Wars are also about control and money, men love them.
Im smelling the bread.