Rightly Dividing the Word of Truth

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Jul 22, 2014
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#81

Does this verse still stand today Why or why not ?
Leviticus 19:28King James Version (KJV)


28 Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the Lord.


The New Covenant replaces the Old Covenant. We are no longer under the Law of Moses. Granted, various different Laws from the OT have been carried over like 9 out of the 10 Commandments. But these are moral laws. For Paul says if we love our neighbor, we have fulfilled the Law. He is speaking of the moral law. Yes, there are verses that suggest that we are not to get tattoos. One fo the big ones is that our bodies is the Temple of the Holy Ghost. Marking up our temple would be like spray painting graffiti on a church building or one of God's old Holy Temples in the past. So yes, tattoos are not a good thing for a believer to partake in. However, that said. There is no specific command forbidding us in doing so in the New Testament. The Scriptures do not say that all who get tattoos will go into the Lake of Fire. Only those who are habitual liars, murderers, fornicators, etc. will be thrown into the Lake of Fire (Revelation 21:8).
 
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john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
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#82
The New Covenant replaces the Old Covenant. We are no longer under the Law of Moses. Granted, various different Laws from the OT have been carried over like 9 out of the 10 Commandments. But these are moral laws. For Paul says if we love our neighbor, we have fulfilled the Law. He is speaking of the moral law. Yes, there are verses that suggest that we are not to get tattoos. One fo the big ones is that our bodies is the Temple of the Holy Ghost. Marking up our temple would be like spray painting graffiti on a church building or one of God's old Holy Temples in the past. So yes, tattoos are not a good thing for a believer to partake in. However, that said. There is no specific command forbidding us in doing so in the New Testament. The Scriptures do not say that all who get tattoos will go into the Lake of Fire. Only those who are habitual liars, murderers, fornicators, etc. will be thrown into the Lake of Fire (Revelation 21:8).
What is the New Covenant?

Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

A direct quote from...

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Now verse 33 is very interesting...

Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

The word for Law here is...

H8451

תֹּרָה תּוֹרָה
tôrâh tôrâh
to-raw', to-raw'
From H3384; a precept or statute, especially the Decalogue or Pentateuch: - law.
Total KJV occurrences: 219

So, what is the New Covenant? Writing the Law on our hearts and minds.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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#83
Do you know what the WCG believed and taught?
I have read up on their doctrine and false beliefs a few times. I do not dwell on what they believe because it is false, though. But I have a basic idea of some it's heresies.

Yep. Do you believe that you can break the Ten Commandments with impunity? Are you a thief? Do you believe that the eighth Commandment is no longer in force?
Paul specifically said you can't do that. If you seek to be justified by the Law (i.e. the Law of Moses), meaning, if you feel you have to go back and obey that which is no longer binding to be saved, then Paul says you have fallen from grace. For we are saved by grace and not by works (Ephesians 2:8-9).


I believe that one must obey all Ten of the Commandments to be saved. Do you believe that the breaking the fourth Commandment is sin? How about the seventh Commandment? Do you believe that one must obey the seventh Commandment?
You don't understand that the Law of Moses is now obselete. We are New Covenant believers who obey the Commands in the New Covenant (i.e. the New Testament) and not the Old Testament.

Do you believe that breaking the Ten Commandments is of no consequence?
Breaking the OT Sabbath had a consequence in the OT Times, but there is no repeat of that Command after Christ died upon the cross and nailed those ordinances that were against us.

Absolutely. Do you?
No. That would be salvation by works. I got baptized, but it wasn't so as to get saved. I was already saved by repenting of my sins and accepting Jesus Christ for many years.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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#84
What is the New Covenant?

Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

A direct quote from...

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Now verse 33 is very interesting...

Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

The word for Law here is...

H8451

תֹּרָה תּוֹרָה
tôrâh tôrâh
to-raw', to-raw'
From H3384; a precept or statute, especially the Decalogue or Pentateuch: - law.
Total KJV occurrences: 219

So, what is the New Covenant? Writing the Law on our hearts and minds.
As much as you disagree with them, you still should check out the article. It really answers everything on this point.


The Old Covenant and the Law of Moses | Grace Communion International
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
#85
I have read up on their doctrine and false beliefs a few times. I do not dwell on what they believe because it is false, though. But I have a basic idea of some it's heresies.
Let me see, you have read up on their doctrine a few times. Who did you read? What information and who authored it?

I sat in services 52 times a year, Bible Studies 52 times a year and then also the Feast Days (two services a day for many years) for 26 YEARS, and you are telling me what the Church taught because you read something that someone outside the church wrote? Interesting.


Paul specifically said you can't do that. If you seek to be justified by the Law (i.e. the Law of Moses), meaning, if you feel you have to go back and obey that which is no longer binding to be saved, then Paul says you have fallen from grace. For we are saved by grace and not by works (Ephesians 2:8-9).
And again, when have I EVER said one can be justified by the Law. What I say is that when one BREAKS the Law it is sin and requires the blood of Christ to justify us...

Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

Who's blood?

Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

What I have consistently said is that we should strive not to take that sacrifice lightly by breaking the Law without regard. when one ignores and tramples on the Law, that person is in real danger of doing this...

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Taking the sacrifice of Christ lightly, thinking that breaking the Law and having that sin purged by the blood of Christ is a trivial matter is getting very close to this point...

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Again? What is sin?

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.



You don't understand that the Law of Moses is now obselete. We are New Covenant believers who obey the Commands in the New Covenant (i.e. the New Testament) and not the Old Testament.
You are absolutely correct here when you say that I think the Law of God is not obsolete. Who spoke those Laws?

Exo 20:1 And God spake all these words, saying,

This One who spoke this is the One who became Jesus Christ and then said this...

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Then He said this...

Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Breaking the OT Sabbath had a consequence in the OT Times, but there is no repeat of that Command after Christ died upon the cross and nailed those ordinances that were against us.
Really? I have covered this one many times before, but for the sake of someone who may be reading your foolishness here, I'll repeat it...

Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

The word for rest here is Sabbatismos and means a keeping of the Sabbath. From the Diaglott...

Heb 4:9 Therefore remains a keeping of a sabbath for the people of the God.

Even my good ole trusty Oxford KJV Bible has this in the margin.

You make an interesting point though. If a command were not repeated in the New Testament, it is not valid?

This one is not repeated in the New Testament...

Lev 18:23 Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion.

There is no command in the New Testament against bestiality. So are you telling us that it is OK for one to fornicate with animals?

No. That would be salvation by works. I got baptized, but it wasn't so as to get saved. I was already saved by repenting of my sins and accepting Jesus Christ for many years.
So you don't think that one must be baptized to receive salvation?

Christ thought that you did...

Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Peter says the same...

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Paul was baptized...

Act 9:17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
Act 9:18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.

The jailer and his family were baptized...

Act 16:33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.

Odd, here is a case where Paul re-baptized some believers and they received the Holy Spirit...

Act 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Act 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

(AGAIN)

Act 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Christians must be baptized into Christ...

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Paul teaches we are BAPTIZED into the Body of Christ...

1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

As many as have BEEN BAPTIZED have put on Christ...

Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

I think your reasonings on the matter are simply that, YOUR REASONINGS.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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#86
Jul 22, 2014
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#87
Yeah I am sorry, my friend. Not really interested in debating in you going back to the Law (at this time). There are plenty of resources besides GCI out there for you to research as to understand the Biblical position of how the New Covenant replaces the Old Covenant. For no man puts new wine into old bottles (i.e. wine skins). Seek the Scriptures again for yourself and examine them again from both sides of the issue objectively. That is all I can do to encourage you to see where I am coming from (at this time).


Peace be unto you.
And may God bless you.