Romans 8 anyone?
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D
The problem with pulling Romans 8 out of the hat by itself. It is part of a systematic theology, and misses the first seven chapters of the system of that theology. Romans is the declaration for Christianity. To skip the why simply stops us from seeing the how.
Or, if exegesis done properly doesn't grab you at the right spot, let's take this to a legal or semantics level. (Real semantics, not the word people use when they mean they just don't want to agree.)
The first few words of the chapter are "There is therefore." "Therefore." A conjunction that tells us something happened before this.
Let's take this at a level most people can relate to. A lease for an apartment.
"There is therefore a return of deposit money at the end of this lease."
So, you're vacating your dwelling, and raise your hand for the deposit money.
The landlord tells you that you aren't getting it, so you repeat the clause above to prove you deserve it. He points to the clause before that that tells you why you don't deserve it. (Usually something about the condition of the property being equal to how you first moved in.)
"There is therefore" means something happened before that before declaring that. A lot did! Seven chapters of it for Romans 8. Seven very important chapters, but to start at 8 means let's just skip the seven. Nope! Got to face the seven, because that's what the 8th is all about.
The first seven tell what God did, and how Man screwed it up again and again, in ever way imaginable. And then Romans 8? It is what God is doing about it! Without knowing all the different ways we can, and have, screwed it up, 8 won't make sense...
Unless, it's being used to pull off a personal agenda.
Or, if exegesis done properly doesn't grab you at the right spot, let's take this to a legal or semantics level. (Real semantics, not the word people use when they mean they just don't want to agree.)
The first few words of the chapter are "There is therefore." "Therefore." A conjunction that tells us something happened before this.
Let's take this at a level most people can relate to. A lease for an apartment.
"There is therefore a return of deposit money at the end of this lease."
So, you're vacating your dwelling, and raise your hand for the deposit money.
The landlord tells you that you aren't getting it, so you repeat the clause above to prove you deserve it. He points to the clause before that that tells you why you don't deserve it. (Usually something about the condition of the property being equal to how you first moved in.)
"There is therefore" means something happened before that before declaring that. A lot did! Seven chapters of it for Romans 8. Seven very important chapters, but to start at 8 means let's just skip the seven. Nope! Got to face the seven, because that's what the 8th is all about.
The first seven tell what God did, and how Man screwed it up again and again, in ever way imaginable. And then Romans 8? It is what God is doing about it! Without knowing all the different ways we can, and have, screwed it up, 8 won't make sense...
Unless, it's being used to pull off a personal agenda.
7
uhhhh
we get new bodies....those caught up in the air are translated
Jesus had a BODY...a different and victorious God raised body, but He still had
a
body
some strange understandings of scripture being presented here
maybe stop ripping pages out of a difficult book like Romans
ripping verses out of context and forming nonsense that helps no one and confuses many
just apply the above to whom it may concern
we get new bodies....those caught up in the air are translated
Jesus had a BODY...a different and victorious God raised body, but He still had
a
body
some strange understandings of scripture being presented here
maybe stop ripping pages out of a difficult book like Romans
ripping verses out of context and forming nonsense that helps no one and confuses many
just apply the above to whom it may concern
7
Paul had an agenda too when he wrote Romans
you can't change it...gonna be true no matter what anyone else says
IMO some folks imagine themselves teachers when they desperately desperately need a few...teachers
it could make a person cry when you see the waste
as someone once said, the word 'therefore' is THERE FOR a reason
7
it's easy to understand
our flesh does not take control of our minds...our flesh operates through our minds
therefore, it is our inner nature being discussed by Paul and not the flesh in which our spirits have now been made alive in Christ
pretty easy IMO
just thought of this...scripture speaks of lifting holy hands to God...if our flesh was evil, then how could we accomplish that?
our flesh does not take control of our minds...our flesh operates through our minds
therefore, it is our inner nature being discussed by Paul and not the flesh in which our spirits have now been made alive in Christ
pretty easy IMO
just thought of this...scripture speaks of lifting holy hands to God...if our flesh was evil, then how could we accomplish that?
Last edited by a moderator:
uhhhh
we get new bodies....those caught up in the air are translated
Jesus had a BODY...a different and victorious God raised body, but He still had
a
body
some strange understandings of scripture being presented here
maybe stop ripping pages out of a difficult book like Romans
ripping verses out of context and forming nonsense that helps no one and confuses many
just apply the above to whom it may concern
we get new bodies....those caught up in the air are translated
Jesus had a BODY...a different and victorious God raised body, but He still had
a
body
some strange understandings of scripture being presented here
maybe stop ripping pages out of a difficult book like Romans
ripping verses out of context and forming nonsense that helps no one and confuses many
just apply the above to whom it may concern
Paul had an agenda too when he wrote Romans
you can't change it...gonna be true no matter what anyone else says
IMO some folks imagine themselves teachers when they desperately desperately need a few...teachers
it could make a person cry when you see the waste
as someone once said, the word 'therefore' is THERE FOR a reason
you can't change it...gonna be true no matter what anyone else says
IMO some folks imagine themselves teachers when they desperately desperately need a few...teachers
it could make a person cry when you see the waste
as someone once said, the word 'therefore' is THERE FOR a reason
Also, when we meet Him our bodies will be transformed, and we will be like Him and see Him as he is. Why do so many want to be with the Lord in their natural, stinky, dead flesh?
[h=3]A Glorious Body[/h][FONT="]35 But someone will say, “How are the dead raised up? And with what body do they come?” 36 Foolish one, what you sow is not made alive unless it dies. 37 And what you sow, you do not sow that body that shall be, but mere grain—perhaps wheat or some other grain. 38 But God gives it a body as He pleases, and to each seed its own body.[/FONT]
[FONT="]39 All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one kind of flesh[c] of men, another flesh of animals, another of fish, and another of birds.[/FONT]
[FONT="]40 There are also celestial bodies and terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 41 There isone glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory.[/FONT]
[FONT="]42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.”[d] The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.[/FONT]
[FONT="]46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lord[e] from heaven. 48 As was the man of dust, so also arethose who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also arethose who are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the manof dust, we shall also bear[f] the image of the heavenly Man.[/FONT]
[h=3]Our Final Victory[/h][FONT="]50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”[g][/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="]55 “O Death, where is your sting?[h]
O Hades, where is your victory?”[i][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT="]56 The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.[/FONT]
[FONT="]58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your labor is not in vain in the Lord.[/FONT]
[h=3]A Glorious Body[/h][FONT="]35 But someone will say, “How are the dead raised up? And with what body do they come?” 36 Foolish one, what you sow is not made alive unless it dies. 37 And what you sow, you do not sow that body that shall be, but mere grain—perhaps wheat or some other grain. 38 But God gives it a body as He pleases, and to each seed its own body.[/FONT]
[FONT="]39 All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one kind of flesh[c] of men, another flesh of animals, another of fish, and another of birds.[/FONT]
[FONT="]40 There are also celestial bodies and terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 41 There isone glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory.[/FONT]
[FONT="]42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.”[d] The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.[/FONT]
[FONT="]46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lord[e] from heaven. 48 As was the man of dust, so also arethose who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also arethose who are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the manof dust, we shall also bear[f] the image of the heavenly Man.[/FONT]
[h=3]Our Final Victory[/h][FONT="]50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”[g][/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="]55 “O Death, where is your sting?[h]
O Hades, where is your victory?”[i][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT="]56 The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.[/FONT]
[FONT="]58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your labor is not in vain in the Lord.[/FONT]
Except that in this context "flesh" does NOT mean your body but your soul -- the Adamic sin nature which is not eradicated in the Christian. Here is how you become "weak" through the "flesh":
13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. (James 1:13-15)
The Law cannot control your flesh, but the Holy Spirit can.