ROMANS, CHAPTER 8

[God4me]

receiving or enjoying blessings is not the same as being free from condemnation.
as we have clearly read and seen, it is our identification with Christ in His death that removes the condemnation of sin - because we have already died to it. that is not annulled just because we have not taken hold of the One who has taken hold of us, and fully comprehended His salvation, and are 'skillful' at walking in Him. it is a matter of the mercy of God, not a matter of human will or exertion.

You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit,
if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you.
(Romans 8:9)​

if we truly believed the gospel, then we were sealed with the Spirit of God. and so we are no longer in the flesh.
this is not a "choice" -- it is an inevitable result of having been shown His mercy and grace. Romans 8 is not presenting a "choice" at all -- it is describing who we were and who we are now and contrasting the two -- so that we will 'wake up' and walk in a way that befits reality.

if you don't comprehend this, i wonder how well you understand the gospel at all -- and wonder if indeed you have received it at all, or if you are still trying to establish your own righteousness?
would you mind describing for me ((and for all)) what you think the gospel is? what have you received? because i'm puzzled by you.

if you think Romans 8 is a "choice" -- read Romans 9. God is the one who makes the choice. God alone.

Receiving and enjoying the blessings of God, is part of the "No condemnation ", in Rom 8: 1.
This is the only time that the Greek adds, "NO dividing or separating from God or His blessings", to no condemnation.

The very end of Rom 8: 1 proves you wrong, because it's for those who walk in the Spirit, and not for those who walk I the flesh, "the carnel ones"

You know very well that not all Christians are walking in the Spirit all the time.

 

[posthuman]

Im dumping the KJV for the Message bible because all the folks I know speak that so fluently, thats todays English

Thanks PostHuman, thats a good idea

Anyone know an online link to the Message bible so I can copy paste from there?

lol but i do think we should read actual translations of the scripture, not just a collection of devotional pamphlets. for example the kjv.

maybe someone should write a twitter Bible -- each book summarized in 140 characters or lest. that's how this generation actually talks . . ?



it's better to not be understood at all, i think maybe, than to be misunderstood.

 

[posthuman]

Receiving and enjoying the blessings of God, is part of the "No condemnation ", in Rom 8: 1.
This is the only time that the Greek adds, "NO dividing or separating from God or His blessings", to no condemnation.

The very end of Rom 8: 1 proves you wrong, because it's for those who walk in the Spirit, and not for those who walk I the flesh, "the carnel ones"

You know very well that not all Christians are walking in the Spirit all the time.

could you describe for me the gospel you received, please. what is the salvation of God?

 

[God4me]

could you describe for me the gospel you received, please. what is the salvation of God?

I should be asking you that question, As you look like one of those false grace teachers.

 

[Ugly]

I should be asking you that question, As you look like one of those false grace teachers.

It's a good sign when a person refuses to answer a simple question, and instead tries to turn it around on you, right? Take the focus off of yourself and put it on the other person, and then say something instigating so rather than having the question put back on you, the instigating remark gets acknowledged instead.
Not a very credible way to handle things. It makes it look like you have something to hide, makes you look manipulative and that you are simply looking for an argument. If you were truly trying to resolve anything then simply answering the question would be the most honest and forthright way of going about this discussion.

 

[God4me]

It's a good sign when a person refuses to answer a simple question, and instead tries to turn it around on you, right? Take the focus off of yourself and put it on the other person, and then say something instigating so rather than having the question put back on you, the instigating remark gets acknowledged instead.
Not a very credible way to handle things. It makes it look like you have something to hide, makes you look manipulative and that you are simply looking for an argument. If you were truly trying to resolve anything then simply answering the question would be the most honest and forthright way of going about this discussion.

I'm the one who has been giving them the scriptures, And unlike them I have kept the Bible in it's right context and presented the proper Biblical balance.
You should read my posts before you jump to wrong conclusions.

 

[Johnlove]

"There is, therefore, now no condemnation, for those who are in Christ Jesus."

Anyone else noticing the pages of condemnation over a post that started out with those words? Why is there no condemnation from Christ, but lots of condemnation here? I guess many of you think you know better than Christ. Get over yourself, because "There is therefore, now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus." I take heed to those words, not your condemnation. All I get from all that condemnation is a list of names never to trust for teaching God's word.

It seems you are having a problem reading what scripture says. (Romans 8:1) “There is therefore now no condemnation to them who are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” KJV

For those who are in Christ Jesus. You need to understand what it means to be in Jesus Christ.


(1 John 2:5 -6) “Whoever says, 'I know him' without keeping his commandments, is a liar, and truth has no place in him. But anyone who does keep his word, in such a one God's love truly reaches its perfection. This is the proof that we are in God. Whoever claims to remain in him must act as he acted.” Jesus told us not to sin no more.

(1 John 3:5-6) “Now you know that he appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen him or known him.”

 

[John146]

I rely on the Bible, and the Holy Spirit within. So what makes you think that God "inspired" an archaic translation, written 400 years ago? Because I certainly can't read KJ English. Because it is NOT modern English. That is why we study the original languages, to gain insight as to what was said before translators put out versions that were not quite perfect, like the KJV. So many mistakes. Every time I compare the Greek to the KJV, I can find so many mistakes. And I am just an intermediate student. No, the KJV is not even close to being as good as the original languages. But for that matter, I would prefer to read any modern translation in English to the KJV, because I simply do not understand the language.

So sorry you are so anti-intellectual, and have been brain washed to believe that somehow in England, 400 years ago, that God "inspired" a translation, rather than the writers who actually wrote the Bible. And so what happens to all those billions of Chinese, who don't speak KJ English? Or any of the other major languages around the world? Are you telling me that they don't have access to the Bible, because KJV is written in English from 400 years ago, and they speak Spanish, German, Hindi or Mandarin, etc.etc.? Just the height of not understanding the truth of the Bible.

Sounds like you're putting your faith in "originals" that we don't have over God's promise to preserve His words. God promised to preserve His pure words for all generations. Can God not preserve His words in any language He sees fit? If they are not found in the KJV, then where are they? Do you have them? Let me know because I need them.

 

[John146]

you speak modern English. you don't speak Victorian English. i've read your posts -- you simply don't speak that way. it's an wholly different dialect.



here's a new boast i haven't heard before. interesting.

so John, if you were a translator, and you were charged with translating the Bible into Inuit, how would you go about that?
get a "pure" kjv out (which one? haven't there been a dozen revisions since 1611?), since it's 'better than the original,' and a couple of dictionaries - one for Victorian English ((which you don't speak)) to modern English ((which you do speak)), and then another one for modern English to Inuit?
or would the wise thing to do, in order to do this right and not wind up with an unfaithful mess, to be to go to the Hebrew and Greek manuscripts that exist, and work from those?

Why would I translate it again when I've got something perfect? My job is to get to know the Bible I do have. Why would I want the Bible written in the watered down English that we speak today?

The Greek and Hebrew manuscripts we have today? They are copies of copies of copies themselves. You would still have to trust that God preserved His pure words in those manuscripts since they are not the originals. Then you're going to have to trust in yourself to pick the right English word or words for translation. No thank you. That would make me the final authority on what God has said.

How do you explain that to the world when you're defending your beliefs out of a book you yourself don't even trust to be accurate?

 

[John146]

Im dumping the KJV for the Message bible because all the folks I know speak that so fluently, thats todays English

Thanks PostHuman, thats a good idea

Anyone know an online link to the Message bible so I can copy paste from there?

I love your sarcasm...

 

[John146]

lol but i do think we should read actual translations of the scripture, not just a collection of devotional pamphlets. for example the kjv.

maybe someone should write a twitter Bible -- each book summarized in 140 characters or lest. that's how this generation actually talks . . ?



it's better to not be understood at all, i think maybe, than to be misunderstood.

That's coming because all translators want to do is make money, and people saps will buy it.

 

[miknik5]

The Lord Jesus finished all His work as becoming flesh. He fulfilled all prophesies concerning Him as a man. Without the resurrection, His death would have been in vain. The power is in the resurrection. In essence, His work was not finished. He became sin for us on the cross, but if He didn't conquer sin through the resurrection, we'd have no hope.

So what is our faith in?
The work of the flesh?
Or the work of THE SPIRIT?

 

[miknik5]

The Greek meaning form "A new creature", is, "Let him become a new creature", it's a renewing that we have to let God do in us, see Rom 6: 4. Rom 12: 2.

What's the "Greek meaning" for "you must be born again"

Can anyone explain the Greek translation and its meaning of the above verse from John 3?

Thanks

 

[miknik5]

What's the "Greek meaning" for "you must be born again"

Thanks for the advice. I know you mean well, but I'll stick with book. There is condemnation upon believers if they are not walking "after the Spirit" but "after the flesh." You can't be a believer and walk after the flesh and get away with it. God's going to either chasten you in this life or remove rewards and inheritance at the Judgment Seat of Christ. Here's another example in 1 Corinthians 11:

29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

Because some of those believers were partaking in the Lord's supper in an unworthy manner, they were judged for it. They didn't lose their salvation, but many of them were made sick and weak and even died. The Lord's not going to allow His children to be disobedient without His chastening.

What are the rewards and inheritance that will be removed?
And who gets the last say in deciding?

Can you expound Romans 14 which you mentioned in your Post 87:
But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
of which your response to the above with regards to Romans 14 was this:
Romans 14 is not talking about eternal damnation or eternal condemnation but rather temporal judgment for not walking charitably, instead, walking selfishly after your own fleshly desires. The believer who does this knowingly will be judged for it.

 

[miknik5]

With regards to the above post, John146

Can you explain for the sake of conscience what you would have to do, (considering if you are spiritually more mature than him) for the sake of your brother/sister?

Thanks.

You might want to reread Romans 14...and not just the verses you mentioned in your original post 87

 

[miknik5]

God didn't give me a linear Greek anything. That's all on man and man wanting to correct the Bible. The KJV defines itself. It has its own built in dictionary and take study to shew yourself approved unto God.

You only know God uses His creation because He told us so in His book. If it weren't in His book, then it wouldn't be so.

The "built in TEACHER" I believe is sufficient...
Don't you?

 

[miknik5]

Jesus didn't mean salvation was finished, and He didn't say it was, DID HE??.
He could have meant the physical pain was about to end, He could have meant the fulfilment of the prophecies about His death were finished.
But those who know the Bible, will know it wasn't salvation that was finished.
Because Jesus was Spiritually dead, Matt 27: 46, and had to go to hell, Acts 2; 27, and had to be raised up from Spiritual death, Col 1: 18. 1 Pet 3: 18. Rev 1: 5. And physical death, 1 Cor 15: 17--20. Rom 4: 25.

Now is judgment in the world.
Now is the Prince of this world cast out..and when I be lifted up I shall draw all men to MYSELF.

Whose work is it anyway to draw men to HIMSELF?

And why is HE drawing men to HIMSELF?
And from where is HE drawing men to HIMSELF?


There are two kingdoms being built up even now...
And there is only ONE WAY into THE KINGDOM of LIGHT.

CHRIST said, HE did not come to bring peace...but division.

But now the division is clearly marked..those who serve the FATHER of OUR SALVATION in, by and through HIS SON...and those who serve (whether knowingly and/or unknowingly) "another father" who is a liar and a murderer and has one purpose only to deceive and keep ignorant men from coming to THE TRUTH...

 

[miknik5]

OK, once again John. You do know that the Bible was originally written in Hebrew and Aramaic for the Old Testament, and Greek for the New Testament, right?

The KJV is just a translation and not the best one available at that. (For numerous reasons I have already stated.) Talking about manuscripts and what they say in the original languages, and how they were translated, sometimes erroneously is not "correcting the Bible." It is discussing intelligently what the original writers wrote based on manuscripts that are available, most of which were not available when the KJV committee did their translating.

God inspired the Greek and Hebrew writers, not a translation committee.

1Corinthians 1-3 I believe is sufficient since it is the SPIRIT (within the believer) who seeks THE HIDDEN THINGS of GOD which can only be known by HIS SPIRIT and it is the SPIRIT(within the believer) who reveals THE HIDDEN THINGS OF GOD which can only be known by HIS SPIRIT...and since THE SPIRIT is TRUTH, THE SPIRIT (within the believer) can both discern the TRUTH and the lack of TRUTH in all things...

 

[miknik5]

Yes, and God is not going to dwell in the same house as the devil. In fact one who sins has never seen God, nor knows God.

(1 John 3:5-6) “Now you know that he appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen him or known him.”


(1 John 3:9-10) “No one who is a child of God sins because God's seed remains in him. Nor can he sin, because he is a child of God. This is what distinguishes the children of God from the children of the devil: whoever does not live uprightly and does not love his brother is not from God” New Jerusalem bible

(1 John 3:9-10) “No one who has been begotten by God sins; because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God. In this way we distinguish the children of God from the children of the devil: anybody not living a holy life and not loving his brother is no child of God’s.”

(Romans 8:1-4) “The reason, therefore, why those who are in Christ Jesus are not condemned, is that the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and death. God has done what the Law, because of our unspiritual nature, was unable to do. God dealt with sin by sending his own Son in a body as physical as any sinful body, and in that body God condemned sin he did this in order the Law’s just demands might be satisfied in us, who behave not as our unspiritual nature but as the spirit dictates.”

THE STRONGER MAN has come to "the house"...and those to whom THE STRONGER MAN has come...know THE STRONGER MAN has come to "the house"...

 

[miknik5]

receiving or enjoying blessings is not the same as being free from condemnation.
as we have clearly read and seen, it is our identification with Christ in His death that removes the condemnation of sin - because we have already died to it. that is not annulled just because we have not taken hold of the One who has taken hold of us, and fully comprehended His salvation, and are 'skillful' at walking in Him. it is a matter of the mercy of God, not a matter of human will or exertion.

You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit,
if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you.
(Romans 8:9)​

if we truly believed the gospel, then we were sealed with the Spirit of God. and so we are no longer in the flesh.
this is not a "choice" -- it is an inevitable result of having been shown His mercy and grace. Romans 8 is not presenting a "choice" at all -- it is describing who we were and who we are now and contrasting the two -- so that we will 'wake up' and walk in a way that befits reality.

if you don't comprehend this, i wonder how well you understand the gospel at all -- and wonder if indeed you have received it at all, or if you are still trying to establish your own righteousness?
would you mind describing for me ((and for all)) what you think the gospel is? what have you received? because i'm puzzled by you.

if you think Romans 8 is a "choice" -- read Romans 9. God is the one who makes the choice. God alone.

And Ephesians 1 further confirms that the SEAL is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession--to the praise of his glory.