Salvation and how to "know" when you receive it.

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Discussing salvation once again? I said "disqualified for the prize" is not disqualified for salvation. 1 Corinthians 9:18-27 fits my doctrine nicely.

Play what? Is this a game to you?

The Greek word for "race" is stadion - Strong's #4712.

Strong's Concordance
stadion: a stadium (a Gr. measure of length), by impl. a racecourse
Original Word: στάδιον, ου, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine; Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: stadion
Phonetic Spelling: (stad'-ee-on)
Short Definition: one eighth of a Roman mile
Definition: (a) a stadium, one eighth of a Roman mile, (b) a race-course for public games.

HELPS Word-studies
4712 stádion – properly, the distance of a race-course; a stadium ("furlong"), the measure (length) of an ancient foot-race; a furlong ("stadion"); (figuratively) the total length (distance) God requires each of us to run in our race of faith. That is, doing all He measures out to receive full eternal-inheritance.

I never said that salvation is a prize (salvation is a gift) and I am not contradicting myself. The Greek word for "prize" is βραβεῖον which is an award a prize in the public games. It's a prize bestowed in connection with the games and is used metaphorically of "the reward" to be obtained hereafter by the believer.

Thayer's Definition
the award to the victor in the games, a prize
metaph. of the heavenly reward for Christian character

A prize is not the same thing as a gift.
Just got to love it when people think they got ya cornered, only to Time and time again, show they do not even know what they are fighting against, what they think a person knows or believes, and what the person in reality believes are two different things,

if people would just just set their pride aside, and listen, they may actually see what is really happening.

1. If he would listen he would know you do not think salvation is a prise
2. If he would listen he would know you understand faith is work, and while God promised us rest, rest is not sitting still and doing nothing, it is doing work and not getting wore out,
3. If he would listen, and not be so quick to try to find fault, he would have have understood, you were not talking about salvation.

It it saddens me that people are wound so tight they make quick decisions without thinking all things through.
 
J

joefizz

Guest
Discussing salvation once again? I said "disqualified for the prize" is not disqualified for salvation. 1 Corinthians 9:18-27 fits my doctrine nicely.

Play what? Is this a game to you?

The Greek word for "race" is stadion - Strong's #4712.

Strong's Concordance
stadion: a stadium (a Gr. measure of length), by impl. a racecourse
Original Word: στάδιον, ου, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine; Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: stadion
Phonetic Spelling: (stad'-ee-on)
Short Definition: one eighth of a Roman mile
Definition: (a) a stadium, one eighth of a Roman mile, (b) a race-course for public games.

HELPS Word-studies
4712 stádion – properly, the distance of a race-course; a stadium ("furlong"), the measure (length) of an ancient foot-race; a furlong ("stadion"); (figuratively) the total length (distance) God requires each of us to run in our race of faith. That is, doing all He measures out to receive full eternal-inheritance.

I never said that salvation is a prize (salvation is a gift) and I am not contradicting myself. The Greek word for "prize" is βραβεῖον which is an award a prize in the public games. It's a prize bestowed in connection with the games and is used metaphorically of "the reward" to be obtained hereafter by the believer.

Thayer's Definition
the award to the victor in the games, a prize
metaph. of the heavenly reward for Christian character

A prize is not the same thing as a gift.
Indeed for a prize is earned,or won,a gift is "freely" given,God gives salvation to all those who believe upon Jesus dieing for their sins,asking God to save their soul humbly and sincerely,and accepting Jesus as saviour just the same as that the holy spirit is a "Gift" given us from God,praise be to God for his "gifts" that are of mercy and compassion.
 
J

joefizz

Guest
Well here we go again,one day is how long I'll keep this thread available for people to talk about salvation outside "not by works" if noone much talks in this one then I'll not bring it back again,hope you all find this thread less stressful somewhat please post away!
 
Dec 12, 2013
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No matter the thread....when salvation is being hotly debated from all sides of the trenches it will have some heat and stress....

It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.....! <--the simplicity found in Christ that gets swept under the table by the workers for and law keepers.....
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
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1 Corinthians 15:51-55, “See, I speak a secret to you: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible has to put on incorruption, and this mortal to put on immortality. And when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall come to be the word that has been written, “Death is swallowed up in overcoming. O Death, where is your sting? O grave, where is your overcoming?”

Matthew 10:22, “And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.”

Hebrews 10:36, “For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of Yah you may receive what is promised.”

James 1:12, "Blessed is the man who does endure trial, for when he has been proved, he shall receive the crown of life which the Master has promised to those who love Him."
 

OneFaith

Senior Member
Sep 5, 2016
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Most of my Christian life has been like the Hokey Cokey dance.

In out, in out.

My performance dictated my relationship with God and installed an unhealthy fear that lead to guilt and condemnation.
I would meditate on scripture but mainly looking at worst possible outcome. YOUR OUT, SINNED TOO MUCH.

Then one day I was laid up with a bad back.
I felt God ask me to spend time with him, at the 4th request I complied.

So I opened my bible and felt led to read

Romans 5:1-2
Chapter 5
Faith Triumphs in Trouble
1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

I looked up the word faith and peace. Particularly peace. I used to think it meant an inner peace and as I didn't have this then obviously I didn't have faith. I never realised it meant there was no hostility between God and me. No more war.

Then I looked at faith. I realised I had faith in Jesus. Not a faith that gives a mental assent only but one that wants to be so much like him.

Then I felt God lead me to

John 8:10-12
10 When Jesus had raised Himself up and saw no one but the woman, He said to her, “Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you?”
11 She said, “No one, Lord.”
And Jesus said to her, “Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more.”
12 Then Jesus spoke to them again, saying, “I am the light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life.”

I read and asked God the purpose of me reading this.
He said "Look at what Jesus said to the lady"

Then it hit me. He didn't say "Go sin no more and I won't condemn you"
It was the other around to me it as like him saying "I don't condemn you, now that I don't live your life according to that and according to my will for me"

Wow God doesn't condemn me, he knows I want to be like Jesus, that I hate my sin and when I get it wrong.

Then God led me to

Romans 8:1
Assurance of Eternal Life in the Spirit (8:1-30)
The Spirit of Life
1 So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus.

Then finally he led me to the following

John 17:23
23 I am in them and you are in me. May they experience such perfect unity that the world will know that you sent me and that you love them as much as you love me.

As I was reading it I had a picture. The above verse was written on a silver bullet put in a gun and pointed at my heart.
The gun was fired and that bullet went straight into my heart and brought me to tears.

GOD LOVES ME AS MUCH AS HE LOVES JESUS.

It was like a whole weight had been lifted.
In fact when my wife came home she looked at me and asked "What's gone on, you look totally different"

That was 7 years ago, (25 years after placing my faith in Jesus) when I actually became secure in the fact that through Jesus and being in Jesus my salvation was not a Hokey Cokey dance. But a merry dance with Jesus.

Sorry for the long post.
You said yourself “he who follows Me”, in order to follow Christ we must take up our cross daily. The word ‘must’ means our salvation depends on it. Jesus will say to many, (who thought they were obeying Him, but didn’t consider all scriptures), “Not everyone who calls Me ‘Lord’ will enter heaven, but only those who do the Will of My Father in heaven.”

Belief saves
Repentance saves
Confession saves
Baptism saves
Remaining faithful to God until death saves

And there are scriptures that prove each of these. But there is not a scripture that proves that only one of these by themselves saves without the others. So people stick to the verses they want to hear, the ones that make them feel comfortable- even to the point of convincing them selves that they don’t have to put forth any effort, and they ignore the scriptures that say you do have to give effort.

Satan loves this because he knows, just like with Eve, if he can get you to purposely disobey God, spiritual death will come to you. “If you sin willfully (premeditated, without effort to stop) there no longer remains a sacrifice for your sins.” ‘No longer means it once genuinely did cover your sins- but now that you give up effort to not sin, God has taken grace away from you.

You had it right the first time- “Work out your salvation with fear and trembling.” What if John the Baptist believed in the false doctrine of ‘faith alone’ and did not preach and baptize people? What if he said in his heart “I don’t have to be obedient unto death- that’s effort- a lot of effort- to let my head be chopped off? No way!” Without effort of obedience, even in the face of death, Christ’s blood will be taken away from you.

You cannot kick up your feet, relax, and enjoy the ride to heaven- cause if you do that, you won’t end up There.
 

DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
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There is in all of us a deep desire to "know" what lies ahead, we want to be reassured that the path we are on is the right one. It is this desire that if not controlled can lead us into a false sense of assurance and ultimately our doom. Human history is littered with stories of individuals and groups acting upon these false hopes to their demise. It is one thing to presume a certain outcome but it is dangerous to assume that a outcome is personally guaranteed.

The Bible gives the promise of salvation to those who are faithful. What is needed to be faithful is up for debate but not the promise of salvation. The danger of believing in personal assurance is that none of us is "personally" addressed in the Bible. We read in the Bible of its promises of salvation which are true, we then assume we have met the requirements (whatever we may thing they are) and now know our standing with God and our destiny. Trusting in our understanding of the scriptures alone without leaving the option of error on our part is unwise.

Since false assurance does exist, 100% assurance cannot.

The Bible states that no one knows the future. (Ecclesiastes 8:7, Proverbs 27:1)

Claims of 100% personal assurances of salvation is a claim of such knowledge.

King Hezekiah and the thief of the cross were given personal assurances of recovery or salvation, we are not.
 
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Am I going too far to suggest actually listening to Jesus- since most here claim they are "Christians'?

Matt 24:13- [FONT=&quot]But he [/FONT][FONT=&quot]who endures to the end[/FONT][FONT=&quot] will be saved.

[/FONT]
Notice the word "WILL"?
 
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Well here we go again,one day is how long I'll keep this thread available for people to talk about salvation outside "not by works" if noone much talks in this one then I'll not bring it back again,hope you all find this thread less stressful somewhat please post away!
"Faith WITHOUT Works is....DEAD!" - Jesus' brother James, James 2:26
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Am I going too far to suggest actually listening to Jesus- since most here claim they are "Christians'?

Matt 24:13- [FONT=&quot]But he [/FONT][FONT=&quot]who endures to the end[/FONT][FONT=&quot] will be saved.

[/FONT]
Notice the word "WILL"?
Yep....and the context is the great tribulation not salvation.....you should listen to Jesus and CONTEXT
 
J

joefizz

Guest
To everyone who has posted here so far,I liked each one of your posts regardless of if I agree with what was said because I appreciate the "effort" of your posts and of course for most likely having to read the bible or think on scripture,a good start for this brought back thread,thanks for all this!
 

DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
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Yep....and the context is the great tribulation not salvation.....you should listen to Jesus and CONTEXT
What in the context leads you the believe Jesus is not talking about salvation?
 

DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
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We conclude a man is justified by faith without works....Paul in Romans....again context alludes your conclusion
The context seems to be works of the Law not works in general.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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The context seems to be works of the Law not works in general.
Works are.works are works regardless of source...

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy has he saved us...

If works of RIGHTEOUSNESS WILL NOT SAVE....No works will save other than the work of the Father which is to BELIEVE ON THE ONE SENT