Salvation

[Angela53510]

This is a very confusing area, as losing it is opposite to the implication of: Ephesians 5:5, basically says, when you do bad, you may/will suffer a sons disobedience. This implies you area SON. Not able to be taken out of the grip of Jesus or the Father as they are one. Basically. Ephesians 4:30, Also it says you are SEALED for the day of redemption.

I think this may relate to "frontlets" in the head and possibly marked in the will of actions (hand) from an old testament reference.


But somone said online recently that you may be able walk away and not be plucked/stolen away from Jesus Hand.

This is so confusing to me as, there are so many references to not doing any bad, ever, or you may not be in Christ, you should endure and perservere etc. Many, many vrses point to this. Also, having fear of God, kind of dissapeares if we are "always saved" without potential falling etc. Unless its just fear for others??

In my opinion, and only opinion, if you follow Jesus in obedience fully, you become a more sacrificial christian. I still findit difficult to witness and evangelise, or also still get ebarrassed and nervous about talking to people i know about God, Jesus, Holy Spirit, Religion etc.

There just awkward subjects when our feeling are involved. But thats the issue are wedenying Christ, and will be denied by Christ to the Father, because we were too awkward and not enough like children shouting from the roof tops???

I think thats why alot of us feel this way (wobbly in salvation), as if we just don't know. Because we bhuddist monks better than us, and there not christians. Putting us to shame.

So in my opinion, it's difficult to tell unless someone solves the problems of walking away from God, cmpared to being taken from God. Can we remove the SEAL from ourselves byturning from God, when emaining keeps us sealed etc?? I don't fully get it either.

I would have preferred a tiny amount more certainty. Though once saved always saved, implies I can be saved, kill millions of people, andstil be saved. It doesn't stack up in thought some how.

Do you not see an inconsistency in the bolded part? What is salvation?

Salvation is being born from above!

"Jesus replied, “I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born from above, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” John 3:3

Salvation is being born of the Spirit!

"Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God." John 3:5

Salvation is being a new creature in Christ!

"So then, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; what is old has passed away—look, what is new has come!" 2 Cor 5:17

So why would someone born of the Spirit, changed completely, the old creature passed away, and the new person in Christ, why would that person go on a killing rampage??

Salvation is not about some outer, white washed tomb. It is about having been changed by the power of God! A saved person would never deliberately go out and kill millions of people. Regardless of what a person calls themselves, if they are born of the Spirit, they will be living for God. And if they are not, God has not saved them! So the question of whether sin causes a person to lose their salvation is not the question!

In fact, God saves us, he has promised to never leave or forsake us, and he will give us the ability to persevere to the end!

"for he has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.” Hebrews 13:5b

"But the one who endures to the end will be saved." Matt 24:13

 

[CherieR]

Exactly,
What about those who have found the Lord, but continue to sin. Do you think they really have not found the Lord?

For me yes I have found and have a personal relationship with the Lord. But to say I am without sin would be a lie.
The bible says all sin is equal so what's the difference of a big sin and a "little" sin? Nothing.
SO IF THERE WAS A murderer next to me who once saved, would we both be equally guilty of sin? And if so does that mean we would both make it to "heaven"

The person who does not love does not know God because God is love. ( see 1 John 4:7-8) A person who kills a bunch of people for the fun of it was never saved to begin with because that person does not have the love of Christ in him. Lets say your sin you struggle with is lying or coveting. If God sends his children to hell because they coveted too much or lied too much, you would want to know how much sin is too much sin. To that question there is no answer and because of this, we would all be in danger. Besides if it was the case that God sends his children to hell for sinning too much, one it would not be by grace that we are saved as Ephesians 2:8 says, two it would make God out to be a liar because Psalm 34:22 says: " The LORD redeems the soul of his servants, and none of those who trust in him shall be condemned." It is belief in Jesus as God incarnate and in his death and resurrection and trusting in Jesus to save us rather than our works that makes us Christians. All who call on the name of the Lord will be saved( see Romans 10:13). Romans 10:9-10 says: " that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." I hope that helps.

 

[Jackson123]

Do you not see an inconsistency in the bolded part? What is salvation?

Salvation is being born from above!

"Jesus replied, “I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born from above, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” John 3:3

Salvation is being born of the Spirit!

"Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God." John 3:5

Salvation is being a new creature in Christ!

"So then, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; what is old has passed away—look, what is new has come!" 2 Cor 5:17

So why would someone born of the Spirit, changed completely, the old creature passed away, and the new person in Christ, why would that person go on a killing rampage??

Salvation is not about some outer, white washed tomb. It is about having been changed by the power of God! A saved person would never deliberately go out and kill millions of people. Regardless of what a person calls themselves, if they are born of the Spirit, they will be living for God. And if they are not, God has not saved them! So the question of whether sin causes a person to lose their salvation is not the question!

In fact, God saves us, he has promised to never leave or forsake us, and he will give us the ability to persevere to the end!

"for he has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.” Hebrews 13:5b

"But the one who endures to the end will be saved." Matt 24:13

when we completly new creation It stay save, and never lose our salvation, we still sinner, not free from sin yet, and the Wage of sin is death

God never leave us, nor forsake us, when we cross the line like ananias and saphira, He Will cross the line.
Accept Jesus not to make sin and kill or rob the bank and free, because He die for our sin.

Accept Jesus is for life more like Him in love and holiness.

 

[Jackson123]

The person who does not love does not know God because God is love. ( see 1 John 4:7-8) A person who kills a bunch of people for the fun of it was never saved to begin with because that person does not have the love of Christ in him. Lets say your sin you struggle with is lying or coveting. If God sends his children to hell because they coveted too much or lied too much, you would want to know how much sin is too much sin. To that question there is no answer and because of this, we would all be in danger. Besides if it was the case that God sends his children to hell for sinning too much, one it would not be by grace that we are saved as Ephesians 2:8 says, two it would make God out to be a liar because Psalm 34:22 says: " The LORD redeems the soul of his servants, and none of those who trust in him shall be condemned." It is belief in Jesus as God incarnate and in his death and resurrection and trusting in Jesus to save us rather than our works that makes us Christians. All who call on the name of the Lord will be saved( see Romans 10:13). Romans 10:9-10 says: " that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." I hope that helps.

after save do you never sin again?

 

[Christian71]

Do you not see an inconsistency in the bolded part? What is salvation?

Salvation is being born from above!

"Jesus replied, “I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born from above, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” John 3:3

Salvation is being born of the Spirit!

"Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God." John 3:5

Salvation is being a new creature in Christ!

"So then, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; what is old has passed away—look, what is new has come!" 2 Cor 5:17

So why would someone born of the Spirit, changed completely, the old creature passed away, and the new person in Christ, why would that person go on a killing rampage??

Salvation is not about some outer, white washed tomb. It is about having been changed by the power of God! A saved person would never deliberately go out and kill millions of people. Regardless of what a person calls themselves, if they are born of the Spirit, they will be living for God. And if they are not, God has not saved them! So the question of whether sin causes a person to lose their salvation is not the question!

In fact, God saves us, he has promised to never leave or forsake us, and he will give us the ability to persevere to the end!

"for he has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.” Hebrews 13:5b

"But the one who endures to the end will be saved." Matt 24:13

So answer me this one little question... Who on here had anything to do with their natural birth?... NO ONE!... You did not have anything to do with your spiritual birth either... It was ALL of God!... Talk to Nicodemus... Brother Glen

John 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:

3:2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

 

[Jackson123]

So answer me this one little question... Who on here had anything to do with their natural birth?... NO ONE!... You did not have anything to do with your spiritual birth either... It was ALL of God!... Talk to Nicodemus... Brother Glen

John 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:

3:2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

seem to me in John 3:16 God invite every body to be born again in Spirit. Than up to us whether we respon to the invitation.

 

[Zmouth]

Since that which is born of the Spirit is spirit, and that which is born of the flesh is flesh, then if the flesh without the spirit is dead then all living things are born to the Spirit or else they wouldn't be alive.

 

[Nehemiah6]

This is so confusing to me as, there are so many references to not doing any bad, ever, or you may not be in Christ, you should endure and perservere etc. Many, many vrses point to this. Also, having fear of God, kind of dissapeares if we are "always saved" without potential falling etc. Unless its just fear for others??

God never meant us to be confused about salvation, so the sources of confusion can be (a) Satan, (b) evil spirits, (c) false teachers, and (d) faulty doctrine in some churches.

So ask yourself a few questions, and then search out the answers from the Bible:

1. Is any man good enough to earn salvation?

2. Is any Christian strong enough to be totally sinless in this life?

3. Is eternal life a gift from God, or is it something to be earned daily?

4. Is Christ Himself our salvation, or is salvation something like a set of keys which you can lose?

5. Can anyone who has been born from above and born of the Spirit become unborn just like that?

6. Would anyone who is truly saved chose to go to Hell after receiving forgiveness and the promise of Heaven?

 

[Jackson123]

Since that which is born of the Spirit is spirit, and that which is born of the flesh is flesh, then if the flesh without the spirit is dead then all living things are born to the Spirit or else they wouldn't be alive.

When a man completly born in the Spirit, he Will full of agape love like Jesus, not selfish anymore, read to die or hungry for other.

I was read a testimony from China, there is a Christian lady cought, she Goes to prison. In the prison she preach to her fellow prisoner. Some converted. She Said in the prison almost like in heaven, among the believer they love each other.

the government not give them enough food there in the prison. One day one of them sick. Every body Will ini to give their food and hungered for their sick friend, and the sick try to refuse because of love.
they may not completly free from sin, but enough to demonstrate the different from the world.

it may not 100% spirit, may 90% or less.

I am not that level, but I believe there is a certain level AS a limit, If we cross the line, we lose our salvation

 

[OneFaith]

Can one lose their salvation after being saved?

Yes! There are many verses that use the word 'if'- which is a conditional statement, requiring decision on our part...

"If you sin willingly there no longer remains a sacrifice for your sins." 'No longer' means there once did.

"For if it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?"

"To present you blameless and without shame if you continue in your faith established and firm."

"If you remain faithful till the end I will give you a crown of life."

"It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who know the truth, and have tasted and known that God is good, if they leave to ever return."

"If you are lukewarm I will vomit you out of My mouth."

"I run in such a way as to win the prize."

"You lazy and wicked servant, I will cast you out where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

You can lose your salvation if you if you give up obeying God. Obedience does not earn salvation, but the obedient are the only group He gives it to- those who are trying, and remain faithful to Him until they die.

 

[Jackson123]

God never meant us to be confused about salvation, so the sources of confusion can be (a) Satan, (b) evil spirits, (c) false teachers, and (d) faulty doctrine in some churches.

So ask yourself a few questions, and then search out the answers from the Bible:

1. Is any man good enough to earn salvation?

2. Is any Christian strong enough to be totally sinless in this life?

3. Is eternal life a gift from God, or is it something to be earned daily?

4. Is Christ Himself our salvation, or is salvation something like a set of keys which you can lose?

5. Can anyone who has been born from above and born of the Spirit become unborn just like that?

6. Would anyone who is truly saved chose to go to Hell after receiving forgiveness and the promise of Heaven?

on qestion No 6. No body want to go to hell. Even muslim want to go to heaven,they do suicide bimbing to go to heaven.

the problem is, like Jesus Said in the parable of sower. Some seed fall among the thorn, grow for a while then the pleasures of the world kill him

 

[Zmouth]

God never meant us to be confused about salvation, so the sources of confusion can be (a) Satan, (b) evil spirits, (c) false teachers, and (d) faulty doctrine in some churches.

So ask yourself a few questions, and then search out the answers from the Bible:

1. Is any man good enough to earn salvation?

2. Is any Christian strong enough to be totally sinless in this life?

3. Is eternal life a gift from God, or is it something to be earned daily?

4. Is Christ Himself our salvation, or is salvation something like a set of keys which you can lose?

5. Can anyone who has been born from above and born of the Spirit become unborn just like that?

6. Would anyone who is truly saved chose to go to Hell after receiving forgiveness and the promise of Heaven?

So if man can have faith in God before God gives him the gift of faith then if faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God then how can somebody who is saved believe that a person can't be saved until they believe in the word of God?

Isaiah 59

 

[Jackson123]

So if man can have faith in God before God gives him the gift of faith then if faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God then how can somebody who is saved believe that a person can't be saved until they believe in the word of God?

Isaiah 59

faith come by hearing,

I think It is figurative. Yes faith can come by hearing the preacher, may in radio or television. Some time from reading.

I read a testimony a prisoner have a bible from his friend, he ripped of one of the pagelaran from the bible to wrapt tobaco. For some reason he read It. It say God so love the world. He ponder and ask to his friend, than he convert

his faith come from reading and hearing.

back to whether one can lose his salvation, I believe yes, If they choose to hear the world more then the word, then he follow the world

Adam and eve save AS long AS he hear and follow God instrction. When they ignore God and follow satan advice, they lose they suit home.

in the Daisy live. Holy Spirit advised us to love and Will ini sacrifice for other. Like Jesus did

Do we always do His advised?

say African need money to preach the gospel. We have hundred dollar,

if we want, we can buy $ 5 Pinto bean and $ 12 frozen burger, enough for a week food the supply and send $70 for the gospel.

but most of us, me include love our self more than God. We may spent $90 for ourself and $10 forGod.

I believe when we go to far, we lose our salvation.

we always think we love God, but John say If a man claim to love God And not love his fellow man, he is a liar

in our forum we demonstrate hate each other, we not completly change yet.

in our country among there is competition preacher, they not in love.

I am aware, I am away from His Will.

 

[gdyloves]

if a righteous person turns from their righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked person does, will they live? None of the righteous things that person has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness they are guilty of and because of the sins they have committed, they will die. Ezekiel 18:24

 

[Dai3234]

Salvation is not probation. Eternal life is not temporary life. Jesus is the door. He is not a revolving door.

I think the issue is, it isn't clear that the door or way, is shut once you enter. Is the door open to come and go. I see points before both. Don't sin, your saved, sin, you weren't in Christ, endure and follow doing the work of God, return to a dog's vomit, I never knew you.

This is the main confusion. The separation of subjects is kind of vague. I believe I am saved but still fear God. Why do I fear, If im saved? Confusing. Clarity in separation of the points of these areas is blurry.

 

[graceNpeace]

Since that which is born of the Spirit is spirit, and that which is born of the flesh is flesh, then if the flesh without the spirit is dead then all living things are born to the Spirit or else they wouldn't be alive.

No, you have completely misunderstood.
Spiritual life and physical life are not synonymous.
When you read that the flesh without the spirit is dead that is not a reference to physical life but spiritual life (eternal life).

 

[Muzungu256]

yes and no........... depends on what verses u read.
this is a very frustrating topic because both sides just keep quoting bible verses and both are right lol

 

[Nehemiah6]

the problem is, like Jesus Said in the parable of sower. Some seed fall among the thorn, grow for a while then the pleasures of the world kill him

Assuming that this applies to genuine believers, you will note in Scripture that those who sin after being saved are chastised severely (1 Cor 5:1-5), and there is also a "sin unto death" (1 Cor 11:26-34). Premature death. But that person remains saved, since salvation is by grace through faith in Christ and His finished work of redemption. Just as Abraham believed God and it was accounted (or imputed) to him for righteousness, God justifies the sinner when he believes. And eternal life is a gift of God, not something which is deserved or earned.

 

[valiant]

Yes! There are many verses that use the word 'if'- which is a conditional statement, requiring decision on our part...

"If you sin willingly there no longer remains a sacrifice for your sins." 'No longer' means there once did.

"For if it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?"

"To present you blameless and without shame if you continue in your faith established and firm."

"If you remain faithful till the end I will give you a crown of life."

"It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who know the truth, and have tasted and known that God is good, if they leave to ever return."

"If you are lukewarm I will vomit you out of My mouth."

"I run in such a way as to win the prize."

"You lazy and wicked servant, I will cast you out where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

You can lose your salvation if you if you give up obeying God. Obedience does not earn salvation, but the obedient are the only group He gives it to- those who are trying, and remain faithful to Him until they die.

you poor soul, hoping to hold on to the end. I'm glad He's holding on to me

for GOD says:

1. 'All that the Father gives to Me will come to Me, and him who comes to Me I will in no wise cast out. For I am come down from Heaven not to do my own will, but the will of Him Who sent
   Me. And this is the will of Him Who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the Last Day,' (John 6.37-39)
   
   
   But you do not believe (My Father's works) because you are not of My sheep. My sheep hear My voice and I know them, and they follow Me, and I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish, and none shall pluck them from My hand. My Father who gave them to Me is greater than all, and no one IS ABLE to pluck them out of the Father's hand. I and my Father are one (John 10.27-30).
   
   
   All have sinned and come short of the glory of God, being accounted as righteous by His grace FREELY through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, Whom God has set forth to be a propitiation through faith by His blood (Rom 3,23-25).
   
   
   'Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you, so that you come behind in no gift, waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ,who will also confirm you unto the end, that you might be unreproveable in the Day of our Lord Jesus Christ.' (1 Corinth 1.6-8). (and this the corinthian church!)
   
   
   'By grace you are saved, through faith, and that (gracious act) not of yourselves, it is the gift of God and not of doings, lest any man should boast, for we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them' (Eph 2.8-10).
   
   
   'Being confident of this very thing, that he which has begun a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Jesus Christ' (Phil 2.6).
   
   
   'Who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our doings, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, but now has been manifested by the appearing of our Saviour, Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the Gospel (2 Tim 1.9).
   
   
   I am not ashamed, for I know Him Whom I have believed, and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have committed to Him against that Day (2 Tim 1.12).
   
   
   But when the kindness of God our Saviour, and His love towards man appeared, not by works done in righteousness which we did ourselves, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, which He poured out upon us richly through Christ Jesus our Saviour, that being justified by His grace we might be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. (Titus 3.4-7).
   
   
   Wherein God, being minded to show more abundantly unto the heirs of promise the immutability of His Counsel, interposed with an oath, that by two immutable things in which it is impossible for God to lie we may have a strong encouragement who have fled for refuge to lay hold of the hope set before us, which we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and steadfast, and entering into that within the veil, whither as a forerunner Jesus entered for us, having become a High Priest for ever after the order of Melchisedek (Heb 7.7-20).
   
   
   Wherefore He is able to save to the uttermost them that come unto God by Him, seeing He ever lives to make intercession for them (Heb 7.25).
   
   
   He has perfected for ever those who are being sanctified (Heb 10.14)​

 

[FlSnookman7]

Anyone who says we can lose our salvation doesn't understand what actually occurs when a person is saved. All of us inherit a dead spirit from adam. When we are saved that spirit is made alive (the Word says quickened) and hidden in Christ Jesus. That fact that we seem to keep messing up after salvation is because only our spirit is changed at first, the soul (that is our thoughts and feelings) are changed over time as we feed on the Word. The more we feed on the Word the more our minds are transformed. Once we can finally accept who we really are in Christ (righteous, redeemed, loved and worthy) then we are able to love others as God loves us.

God knows all we have done and all we will do yet He choose to save us anyway. To say we must do this to keep our salvation or we can't do that or we lose salvation is in fact the height of arrogance and disobedience. When we say those things what we are really saying is "Jesus didn't do enough, I better help Him". Really?? God needs no help in either saving us or keeping us. God wants us to have faith in who He is, who He has made us to be and what His plans are for us.

Being human it is a very hard thing indeed to set aside our pride and ego and trust God to do that which we are unable to do. It is even more difficult because it goes against our own understanding and often against the evidence we can see. That is why we are told to lean NOT on our own understanding and have faith in that which we can NOT see.

God is NOT hiding behind a tree waiting for you to mess up so He can revoke your salvation, if that were the case He would've never saved you to begin with.


HAVE FAITH!! Be secure in God's promises!! He loves you and has a plan for you.