Satan - Fallen Angel or Anyone..

[Bustablues]

Ive heard a lot of different points of view on this one, and I just wanted to clear it up in my mind once and for good..

So I thought i'd post a thread because i believe i am missing something..

After sitting down with a Baptist Pastor he too could not give me answers..

Does anyone know who Satan is, where he comes from, is he lurking around or what..

I cant find much on this topic.

Your help is appreciated.

 

[Hizikyah]

Ezekiyl 28:1-19
"1The word of Yahweh came again to me, saying,
2Son of man, tell the prince of Tyre, Thus says the Lord Yahweh: Because your heart is lifted up, and you have said, I am a god, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet you are man, and not God, though you did set your heart as the heart of God—
3behold, you are wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that is hidden from you;
4by your wisdom and by your understanding you have gotten yourself riches, and have gotten gold and silver into your treasures;
5by your great wisdom [and] by your traffic you have increased your riches, and your heart is lifted up because of your riches—
6therefore thus says the Lord Yahweh: Because you have set your heart as the heart of God,
7therefore, behold, I will bring strangers on you, the terrible of the nations; and they shall draw their swords against the beauty of your wisdom, and they shall defile your brightness.
8They shall bring you down to the pit; and you shall die the death of those who are slain, in the heart of the seas.
9Will you yet say before him who kills you, I am God? but you are man, and not God, in the hand of him who wounds you.
10You shall die the death of the uncircumcised by the hand of strangers: for I have spoken it, says the Lord Yahweh.
11Moreover the word of Yahweh came to me, saying,
12Son of man, take up a lamentation over the king of Tyre, and tell him, Thus says the Lord Yahweh: You seal up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
13You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone adorned you: ruby, topaz, emerald, chrysolite, onyx, jasper, sapphire, turquoise, and beryl. Gold work of tambourines and of pipes was in you. In the day that you were created they were prepared.
14You were the anointed cherub who covers: and I set you, [so that] you were on the holy mountain of God; you have walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15You were perfect in your ways from the day that you were created, until unrighteousness was found in you.
16By the abundance of your traffic they filled the midst of you with violence, and you have sinned: therefore I have cast you as profane out of the mountain of God; and I have destroyed you, covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
17Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty; you have corrupted your wisdom by reason of your brightness: I have cast you to the ground; I have laid you before kings, that they may see you.
18By the multitude of your iniquities, in the unrighteousness of your traffic, you have profaned your sanctuaries; therefore have I brought forth a fire from the midst of you; it has devoured you, and I have turned you to ashes on the earth in the sight of all those who see you.
19All those who know you among the peoples shall be astonished at you: you have become a terror, and you shall nevermore have any being."

 

[Bustablues]

So the prince of Tyre is Satan..

 

[Hizikyah]

Cherub is hebrew word # 3742

[h=4]Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)[/h]
1) cherub, cherubim (pl) 1a) an angelic being 1a1) as guardians of Eden 1a2) as flanking God's throne 1a3) as an image form hovering over the Ark of the Covenant 1a4) as the chariot of Jehovah (fig.)

 

[Hizikyah]

well there is a literal prince of tyre, but satan is not a human, it a metaphor, "prince of tyre"

 

[Bustablues]

So the King of Babylon in Isaiah 14 .. Is also a metaphor?

 

[Bustablues]

9Will you yet say before him who kills you, I am God? but you are man, and not God, in the hand of him who wounds you. ???

 

[Hizikyah]

So the King of Babylon in Isaiah 14 .. Is also a metaphor?

Certianly v11-20 is talking about satan, its been a few years since I studied this but if i remember the earlier part of the verses is talkingabout satan, and if we look into

Revelation 17:5, "And upon her head was a name written: MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT THE MOTHER OF THE HARLOTS
AND OF THE iABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH."

this is not literal babylon but piritually babylon, a world ruling system who carries on the adultery and abominations of babylon and certianly satan is leading this system.

Revelation 13:2, "And the beast which I saw was similar to a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion; and the dragon gave him his power, and his throne, and great authority."

so I guess it could be looked at as metaphor or literal? but either way satan is behind this system, lol you prolly already know all of this.

 

[Hizikyah]

9Will you yet say before him who kills you, I am God? but you are man, and not God, in the hand of him who wounds you. ???

The Hebrew root word is adam, I always thought it to mean mortal, as in not with eternal life aka a created being? what do you think?

 

[Bustablues]

Wait a second the start of the chapter says prince of tyre, and then it is to the King.. one would assume These are messages both to the prince and the king? "You were in Eden" meaning paradise? Is this the same translation.. And in verse 16By the abundance of your traffic they filled the midst of you with violence, and you have sinned: therefore I have cast you as profane out of the mountain of God; and I have destroyed you. .. Does this mean if theres a devil or was one .. he was destroyed?

 

[Drett]

In Christianity do angels have free will ?

 

[Bustablues]

Forget about revelation for the moment, that book confuses the day lights out of me.. At the start of the book of Rev I did read something about it being a book of symbols so, one cannot take Revelation literally..surely.

 

[Hizikyah]

Wait a second the start of the chapter says prince of tyre, and then it is to the King.. one would assume These are messages both to the prince and the king? "You were in Eden" meaning paradise? Is this the same translation.. And in verse 16By the abundance of your traffic they filled the midst of you with violence, and you have sinned: therefore I have cast you as profane out of the mountain of God; and I have destroyed you. .. Does this mean if theres a devil or was one .. he was destroyed?

the word translated "prince" is
H5057. nagid

nagid: a leader, ruler, prince​

Original Word: נָגִיד
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: nagid
Phonetic Spelling: (naw-gheed')
Short Definition: leader

just a title of power or leadership, not too specific

king is
4428. melek

melek: king​

Original Word: מֶ֫לֶך
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: melek
Phonetic Spelling: (meh'-lek)
Short Definition: king

literally king

Eden I do think is garden of eden

in v16 I believe Yahweh is speaking of something that has not happened yet, but since He knows the end from beginning He can speak as if its already done, ONLY He can guarantee ANYTHING.

 

[Hizikyah]

In Christianity do angels have free will ?

in the Scriptures yes they do, but they are actually called malakim, simply means messenger

 

[Bustablues]

I would agree, with both created and being mortal. Adam was perfect in the eyes of God, untill they sinned and then made mortal. And obviously this was written after the years of Genesis so i would assume that that particular passage would mean mortal. If you read Isaiah 13 and 14 it talks about the destruction of Babylon and the king Nebuchednezzar.. Not some lucifer fallen angel satan guy..? And Jesus was supposed to have 'destroyed that which has the power of death, that is, the devil' as well.. so it makes it confusing. Isaiah if you read the chapters leading up to 14 and 15.. Its talking about Babylon and the destruction of it.. This other reference is to both the prince, and the king of Tyre. I don't know how you can get satan from just a few verses without some sort of context..

 

[Bustablues]

So to a literal prince and king.. You would think if this was addresed to Satan it would title "To the dark lord" or "To Satan" or something.. yea?

 

[Hizikyah]

I would agree, with both created and being mortal. Adam was perfect in the eyes of God, untill they sinned and then made mortal. And obviously this was written after the years of Genesis so i would assume that that particular passage would mean mortal. If you read Isaiah 13 and 14 it talks about the destruction of Babylon and the king Nebuchednezzar.. Not some lucifer fallen angel satan guy..? And Jesus was supposed to have 'destroyed that which has the power of death, that is, the devil' as well.. so it makes it confusing. Isaiah if you read the chapters leading up to 14 and 15.. Its talking about Babylon and the destruction of it.. This other reference is to both the prince, and the king of Tyre. I don't know how you can get satan from just a few verses without some sort of context..

good point, its been some years since I have studied this, so i cant say from the overall view, I would need to refresh, but i do think at least that section is talking about satan. just off the top of my head, satan was behind the literal babylon also. I do agree Yahshua (Jesus) work on earth did deafeat the power of satan but it hasnt fully taken hold, satan is still given time on earth, all the works are done, Yahshua is just waiting for Yahweh to tell Him to return, and that is when satan will be bound and then permanently destroyed, but again has not happened yet.

 

[Hizikyah]

So to a literal prince and king.. You would think if this was addresed to Satan it would title "To the dark lord" or "To Satan" or something.. yea?

yeah thats how i see it, kind of "ruler of darkness"

 

[nathan3]

I cant sleep so I'll post some verses for you to read.

(( Hold down Ctrl & press + to magnify screen. press the - ( subtract ) to reduce. King James Version ))



Ezekiel 28 ( he is called the prince, and king Tyrus there . he was in Eden. It says, he is created by God, and he was a cherub/ archangel . he is sentenced to die, Perish. )

Isaiah 14: 4- 19 ( He is Lucifer here, and in a prophetic type, he is the king of Babylon of future written in Revelation )

Rev 12: 7- 12 ( Your given more of his names together, so you should not be confused who is kicked from heaven in the near future. )

Ezekiel 31: 3-16 ( he is called the Assyrian and plain box cedar here. Your given some history about him. He was in Eden. )

Genesis 3 ( he is called the "serpent" here, in Eden . )

Rev 13: 11- 18 ( he is called the Dragon verse 4, he is also called the second beast. he will appear as the lamb. )

II Thessalonians 2:1-17 ( he is called the man of sin, and the son of perdition. .. plainly called Satan in verse 9; who cases the falling away, before The return of the True Christ.)



Mark 13: ( he is death of verse 12 ,- Hebrews 2:14 . he is called the abomination of desolation standing where "he" ought not.
he causes the 5 foolish virgins to be with child ( figurative of his lies - verse 17 ).. The one that takes the unsuspecting away before the true harvest- verse 18. he is called the false-christ, and appears before the True Christ-Verses 21-25 ..


Revelation 9 : ( the star that falls from heaven, the angel of the bottomless pit and causes the smoke to block out the Light. leader of the locust army. he is also called Abaddon, and Apollyon. ( its the base of the son of perdition ). out of his mouth gos fire and smoke and brimstone verse 17. his deception is like a scorpions sting - verse 3 , 5. he is plainly called the devil - verse 20. )


Revelation 12:15 ( he is the serpent and a flood comes from his mouth )


Revelation 6: ( he is the rider on the white horse with a fake rainbow - verse 2. he is the pale horse , and he is called Death- verse 8. )



Revelation 6:13 ( he is among the stars of heaven that are cast down to the earth . he causes the figs to be carried away by Antichrist )


I John 2:18 ( he is called the Antichrist. in the Greek, it means in-stead of or in place of, Christ. )


Daniel 12:11 ; Daniel 9:27 ( the desolator )

Daniel 11:21 ( the vile person who comes in peacefully and prosperously so obtains by flattering )


Daniel 7:8 ( he is called the little horn. )


Revelation 12 : 3-4 ( first part of verse 4 ). he is the same dragon of very very long ago. )


Revelation 16:13-14 ( he commands the lying spirits that deceive the word with their subtlety into the arms of Satan as Antichrist . he with them work the miracles to deceive the whole word in the near future.)



Revelation 17: 5 ( he is the king of Babylon to come. his queen religious system upon all people of the world, will make it appear as though God is blessing the earth )


Revelation 9:5, 10 ( the time Christ shortened his reign to )


Daniel 8:25 ( he will magnify himself )

Revelation 17:8 ( he was in the Garden, he is not here now, because he is in heaven accusing the saints before the throne of God, now ( Rev. 12:10 ). Satan will ascend out of the bottomless pit,( Revelation 9:1,2, and he will go to perdition, following the judgment at the end of the Millennium ( rev 20:10 ).


Revelation 17:11 ( in verse eight, "he" was the one out of the pit. Satan's "eighth" role is when he goes into perdition. Of the seven"? Because he was over the seven, one entity in all seven positions; and now this eighth is his last. )



I'm sure these are not all the scriptures you should want to know and believe, as a Christian. It's a decent amount of scripture you can take your time reading.

 

[Bustablues]

How is that talking about Satan its to the King of Tyre.. And read Isaiah 13 and 14, you can't tell me that the prophesy is about Satan.. Its about Babylon and to Neb.. Who was behind it, it doesn't say..

I also know that the put on the armour of God passage, was written to the brothers and sisters of christ at the time and was about the king at the time, Nero.. Studying history and pin pointing times and locaton, this would tie in.

The only other time some devil guys mentioned as far as i know is in Genesis, the serpent (though it was a talking snake) [made an angel, human?] {One concludes maybe the devil can transform} .. Was he a fallen angel at that time or did he come down after or before the creation of Adam and Eve? If before, why is he a snake.. If after, well that doesnt make sense.. And even if he was a fallen angel, he would have been destroyed twice 3 times already.. It doesn't make sense.