Satan - Fallen Angel or Anyone..

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nathan3

Guest
#21
How is that talking about Satan its to the King of Tyre.. And read Isaiah 13 and 14, you can't tell me that the prophesy is about Satan.. Its about Babylon and to Neb.. Who was behind it, it doesn't say..

I just posted verses to read there for you. I think you should take the time to read the notes there, and study. Rome wasn't built in a day..

You get history there used to teach other, history. Like Satan's history, and God's plans for him in the near future.. there are types and examples. What you read is of a real person ( supernatural being, Satan ).
 
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Bustablues

Guest
#22
Revelation is a book of symbols, this dragon, satan, devil, little horn desolating rider of the white horse with a fake rainbow, leader of the locust army figurative false christ anti-christ, could be anyone .. Anyway i will read and study these passages and come back to you.
 
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nathan3

Guest
#23
Revelation is a book of symbols, this dragon, satan, devil, little horn desolating rider of the white horse with a fake rainbow, leader of the locust army figurative false christ anti-christ, could be anyone .. Anyway i will read and study these passages and come back to you.
well, look just take time and study like you said. if you want to chat some in the chat rooms let me know. pray about it.
 
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nathan3

Guest
#24
I forgot one .

Genesis 2:17 ( the tree of knowledge of good and evil. ) .Among others, I have not learned yet.
 
Jul 26, 2013
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#25
Satan is the spirit of error. Our flesh is the cherub that covers the truth, the 'inner man of God' .
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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#26
So the prince of Tyre is Satan..
Nope, the KING of Tyre...

Eze 28:12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
#28
So angels have ranks? Apparently so...

Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

There are twenty four elders at the throne of God. There are cherubim, seraphim and angels mentioned.

Are there ranks in the demonic world?

Dan 10:2 In those days I Daniel was mourning three full weeks.
Dan 10:3 I ate no pleasant bread, neither came flesh nor wine in my mouth, neither did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weeks were fulfilled.
Dan 10:4 And in the four and twentieth day of the first month, as I was by the side of the great river, which is Hiddekel;
Dan 10:5 Then I lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a certain man clothed in linen, whose loins were girded with fine gold of Uphaz:
Dan 10:6 His body also was like the beryl, and his face as the appearance of lightning, and his eyes as lamps of fire, and his arms and his feet like in colour to polished brass, and the voice of his words like the voice of a multitude.
Dan 10:7 And I Daniel alone saw the vision: for the men that were with me saw not the vision; but a great quaking fell upon them, so that they fled to hide themselves.
Dan 10:8 Therefore I was left alone, and saw this great vision, and there remained no strength in me: for my comeliness was turned in me into corruption, and I retained no strength.
Dan 10:9 Yet heard I the voice of his words: and when I heard the voice of his words, then was I in a deep sleep on my face, and my face toward the ground.
Dan 10:10 And, behold, an hand touched me, which set me upon my knees and upon the palms of my hands.
Dan 10:11 And he said unto me, O Daniel, a man greatly beloved, understand the words that I speak unto thee, and stand upright: for unto thee am I now sent. And when he had spoken this word unto me, I stood trembling.
Dan 10:12 Then said he unto me, Fear not, Daniel: for from the first day that thou didst set thine heart to understand, and to chasten thyself before thy God, thy words were heard, and I am come for thy words.
Dan 10:13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.
Dan 10:14 Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall thy people in the latter days: for yet the vision is for many days.

Now, let's read another account...

2Sa 24:15 So the LORD sent a pestilence upon Israel from the morning even to the time appointed: and there died of the people from Dan even to Beersheba seventy thousand men.
2Sa 24:16 And when the angel stretched out his hand upon Jerusalem to destroy it, the LORD repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed the people, It is enough: stay now thine hand. And the angel of the LORD was by the threshingplace of Araunah the Jebusite.

One can read the whole account, but here we see an angel that just killed 70,000 people. Here is an even more dramatic account...

2Ki 19:32 Therefore thus saith the LORD concerning the king of Assyria, He shall not come into this city, nor shoot an arrow there, nor come before it with shield, nor cast a bank against it.
2Ki 19:33 By the way that he came, by the same shall he return, and shall not come into this city, saith the LORD.
2Ki 19:34 For I will defend this city, to save it, for mine own sake, and for my servant David's sake.
2Ki 19:35 And it came to pass that night, that the angel of the LORD went out, and smote in the camp of the Assyrians an hundred fourscore and five thousand: and when they arose early in the morning, behold, they were all dead corpses.

Again, for context, read the whole account.

Now let's ask a question about the prince of the kingdom of Persia. Do you really suppose a human could withstand Gabriel and Michael for three weeks? We just read an account where an angel slaughtered 185,000 Assyrian men of war in one night. There are ranks in the demonic realm, just like in the angelic realm. Different demons have different power and authority in this realm.

One more anecdotal account. A man (won't use his name) went to India in the early teens of the last century. He went there to witness some of the magic performed there. One of the magicians stated they could do no magic. The man asked why. "All the spirits have gone to Europe."

This is told as a true account. Believe it or not, your call, but it is naive to the extreme to believe that demonic forces are not at work in the world today.
 
R

reject-tech

Guest
#29
That word was changed from referring to an aspect to the name of a non-existent "creature", long before you were taught that it is the name of a non-existent creature.

Satan is your own inner adversary.
And you can't get it out of you, only God can.
But you can put it in check until then.

Job's "sons of God", the holy things he had begotten, went to present themselves, along with his satan.
David's satan provoked him to place a restrictive number on the people of Israel.
Joshua's satan caused him to be clothed with filthy garments before the angel of God.
Peter's satan caused him to rebuke Jesus.

I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
#30
That word was changed from referring to an aspect to the name of a non-existent "creature", long before you were taught that it is the name of a non-existent creature.

Satan is your own inner adversary.
And you can't get it out of you, only God can.
But you can put it in check until then.

Job's "sons of God", the holy things he had begotten, went to present themselves, along with his satan.
David's satan provoked him to place a restrictive number on the people of Israel.
Joshua's satan caused him to be clothed with filthy garments before the angel of God.
Peter's satan caused him to rebuke Jesus.

I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.
And by your reckoning...

Luk 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

Would this be Christ's inner Satan?

MBFM
 

Drett

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2013
1,663
38
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#31
in the Scriptures yes they do, but they are actually called malakim, simply means messenger
Thanks for the info. In Arabic they are referred to as malaikah. It looks like Hebrew and Arabic are similar.
 
R

reject-tech

Guest
#32
Would this be Christ's inner Satan?
No, but the one that tempted Him in the wilderness and departed from Him by His own command was.
You can't be tempted unless you have something inside you to tempt you.
To say temptation comes from only external means, is to pass the buck.
It's impossible to be tempted only by external means.

The one that fell from heaven like lightning is in reference to that of the returning apostles.
If the kingdom of heaven is within you as Jesus said, from where else then can satan fall or be cast to the earth?
 
Nov 19, 2012
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#33
Thanks for the info. In Arabic they are referred to as malaikah. It looks like Hebrew and Arabic are similar.
The god 'allah' was a fallen angel.
 
S

Sanashankar

Guest
#34
Ive heard a lot of different points of view on this one, and I just wanted to clear it up in my mind once and for good..

So I thought i'd post a thread because i believe i am missing something..

After sitting down with a Baptist Pastor he too could not give me answers..

Does anyone know who Satan is, where he comes from, is he lurking around or what..

I cant find much on this topic.

Your help is appreciated.
I do not believe that ezekiel or isaiah is speaking abt satan, who was an arch angel called lucifer and he sinned and became a devil. I do not believe that. Reasons

1. Jesus says that the devil,i.e satan was a murderer and liar from the "beginning"...not that he was an ach angel in the beginning, but a murderer.
Jn 8:44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.


2. In all Hebrew or Aramaic texts of Isa. 14:12, the only word found is "heh-lehl," eill, which is a form of the Hebrew stem "yah-lahl," ill, meaning howl. Here is Kittel’s Hebrew Text for the Hebrew Stem ill—"yah-lahl"—HOWL:
[TABLE="width: 67%"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 26%"]Isa. 13:6[/TD]
[TD="width: 19%"]eiliu[/TD]
[TD="width: 62%"]Howl ye[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 26%"]Isa. 14:31[/TD]
[TD="width: 19%"]eili[/TD]
[TD="width: 62%"]Howl[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 26%"]Isa. 15:2[/TD]
[TD="width: 19%"]iilil[/TD]
[TD="width: 62%"]shall howl[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 26%"]Isa. 15:3[/TD]
[TD="width: 19%"]iilil[/TD]
[TD="width: 62%"]shall howl[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 26%"]Isa. 16:7[/TD]
[TD="width: 19%"]iilil[/TD]
[TD="width: 62%"]Howl[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 26%"]Isa. 16:7[/TD]
[TD="width: 19%"]iilil[/TD]
[TD="width: 62%"]shall howl[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 26%"]Isa. 23:1[/TD]
[TD="width: 19%"]eililu[/TD]
[TD="width: 62%"]Howl ye[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 26%"]Isa. 23:6[/TD]
[TD="width: 19%"]eililu[/TD]
[TD="width: 62%"]Howl ye[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 26%"]Isa. 23:14[/TD]
[TD="width: 19%"]eililu[/TD]
[TD="width: 62%"]Howl ye[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 26%"]Isa. 52:5[/TD]
[TD="width: 19%"]eililu[/TD]
[TD="width: 62%"]make to howl[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 26%"]Isa. 65:14[/TD]
[TD="width: 19%"]eililu[/TD]
[TD="width: 62%"]shall howl[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 26%"]Jer. 4:8[/TD]
[TD="width: 19%"]ueililu[/TD]
[TD="width: 62%"]Howl[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 26%"]Jer. 25:34[/TD]
[TD="width: 19%"]eililu[/TD]
[TD="width: 62%"]Howl[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 26%"]Jer. 47:2[/TD]
[TD="width: 19%"]ueill[/TD]
[TD="width: 62%"]and shall howl[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 26%"]Jer. 48:20[/TD]
[TD="width: 19%"]eilili[/TD]
[TD="width: 62%"]Howl[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 26%"]Jer. 48:31[/TD]
[TD="width: 19%"]ailil[/TD]
[TD="width: 62%"]will I howl[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 26%"]Jer. 48:39[/TD]
[TD="width: 19%"]eililu[/TD]
[TD="width: 62%"]They shall howl (Howl ye)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 26%"]Jer. 49:3[/TD]
[TD="width: 19%"]eilili[/TD]
[TD="width: 62%"]Howl (Howl ye)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 26%"]Jer. 51:8[/TD]
[TD="width: 19%"]eililu[/TD]
[TD="width: 62%"]howl[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 26%"]Ezek.30:2[/TD]
[TD="width: 19%"]eililu[/TD]
[TD="width: 62%"]Howl ye[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 26%"]Hos. 7:14[/TD]
[TD="width: 19%"]iililu[/TD]
[TD="width: 62%"]They howled[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 26%"]Joel 1:5[/TD]
[TD="width: 19%"]ueililu[/TD]
[TD="width: 62%"]And howl[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 26%"]Joel 1:11[/TD]
[TD="width: 19%"]eililu[/TD]
[TD="width: 62%"]howl[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 26%"]Joel 1:13[/TD]
[TD="width: 19%"]eililu[/TD]
[TD="width: 62%"]And shall be howlings[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 26%"]Amos 8:1[/TD]
[TD="width: 19%"]ueililu[/TD]
[TD="width: 62%"]and howl[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 26%"]Micah 1:8[/TD]
[TD="width: 19%"]uailile[/TD]
[TD="width: 62%"]howl ye[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 26%"]Zeph. 1:11[/TD]
[TD="width: 19%"]aililu[/TD]
[TD="width: 62%"]Howl[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 26%"]Zech.11:2[/TD]
[TD="width: 19%"]eill[/TD]
[TD="width: 62%"]howl[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 26%"]Zech.11:2[/TD]
[TD="width: 19%"]eililu[/TD]
[TD="width: 62%"]howl[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 26%"]Isa. 14:12[/TD]
[TD="width: 19%"]eill[/TD]
[TD="width: 62%"]Lucifer (??)[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
I don’t believe one has to be a Hebrew scholar to see at a glance that "Lucifer" is totally out of place in this list. The meaning of this word is clear; eill is a verb that means "HOWL", and not a noun than can be twisted into a personal name such as "lucifer"!


3.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning


4. Satan is not the result of a Godly experiment gone wrong! Satan is functioning PERFECTLY as God’s adversary. Satan is essential to the purpose and salvation of the whole human race. That is why God created him in the first place. God created satan who is also the devil also the serpent also the dragon (Re 12:9).
Gn 3:1 . Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made.
Satan himself is the serpent in the garden of eden. In reelation it is said that the satan is the old serpent.
Re 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world:


5. God says it is he who created the waster, he does not say he (satan) became a waster because he sinned.
Isa 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.


6. God created the "WASTER," not the archangel who later supposedly became Satan, but from the BEGINNING God said He created "The WASTER" and He created him "TO DESTROY." Now then, WHOSE role is it to "destroy" the flesh of man so that the spirit may be saved?
1C 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Hope this helps. for more L. Ray Smith - Lake of Fire - part 2 and L. Ray Smith - The Lake of Fire - Part 9
 
A

Anna20fAustralia

Guest
#35
There are a couple of books around on the history of Satan in Christian, Jewish, Islamic religions. I know a lot of Christians dont believe in Satan, but I really do. There have been times in my life where I have done things which are wrong and the desire to do the stuff was sooooooooooooo strong that I believe it was something like a demon, and demons have their 'heor' and that is Satan.

I don't feel that we should get 'obsessed' by the issue, but i feel it doesn't make sense to deny that evil is a real thing.
 

TheAristocat

Senior Member
Oct 4, 2011
2,150
26
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#36
So the prince of Tyre is Satan..
In ancient times many different cities had their own particular guardian god. In the Bible the sentiment is somewhat similar, although they are not gods and aren't necessarily in control of single cities.

Daniel 10:12-13 Then he continued, “Do not be afraid, Daniel. Since the first day that you set your mind to gain understanding and to humble yourself before your God, your words were heard, and I have come in response to them. But the prince of the Persian kingdom resisted me twenty-one days. Then Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, because I was detained there with the king of Persia.

We commonly know Michael to be an angel and yet he is called a prince. And the angel that was sent to Daniel was struggling against the prince of the Persian kingdom. So this prince of the Persian kingdom, rather than being a human being, is commonly viewed as a fallen angel. So likewise this individual from Tyre.
 

TheAristocat

Senior Member
Oct 4, 2011
2,150
26
0
#37
So to a literal prince and king.. You would think if this was addresed to Satan it would title "To the dark lord" or "To Satan" or something.. yea?
Satan just means Adversary. It's a title we use for him, but certainly he can go by other titles that are equally as descriptive?
 
C

cfultz3

Guest
#38
In Christianity do angels have free will ?
I would think they do. Some "chose" to fall with Satan and were not prevented by God.
 
O

overcomer2

Guest
#39
Here is how it was taught to me: The Lord had 3 main angels, Arch angels. Lucifer in charge of worship, Michael the warring angel and Gabriel is the serving angel. Now each of the main angels have those under them Cheribum and seraphim. Just like in the Satanic kingdom there are also levels of authority. We find that in scripture[SUP] Eph 6:12 [/SUP]For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. When in Heaven his name is Lucifer after the fall his name is taken and he is given Lucifer.
After Lucifer fell his names changed to Satan also known as the dragon, serpent or snake.
Lucifer took 1/3 of the angels with him. So, now we are prepared to replace that which was lost in heaven. We will spend eternity worshipping the Lord.

Angels are different then humans in that they have no soul neither can they reproduce. They are spiritual beings.Hebrews 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
Revelation 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,(showing Michael as the warring angel)
 
O

overcomer2

Guest
#40
Satan did possess a man, and he will enter into a man again very soon. I believe people also become possessed by demons. Demons are the angels that followed Satan.
[h=3]Jude 1:6[/h]
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. There first estate was their place in heaven.

[h=3]Revelation 12:9[/h]
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. He was cast out into Earth coming from Heaven.