saved by Justification alone?

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crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#41
Not many believers study enough to see this distinction brother. Your spot on.
It is an extremely important distinction that would save tons of heartache and headache trying to reconcile Paul and James and some other passages.
 
Dec 9, 2011
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#42
what is justification? and is it all that is needed for salvation?

Biblical answers please, e.g. actually use your bible to back your answers cheers.
just curious if you sincerely do not no what being justified means because you asked is that all that is needed.

We are justified by Faith in CHRIST alone and not Faith in CHRIST plus works.
 

gotime

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2011
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#43
there are two aspects to justification, read post 17.
Some of the verses that deal with the vindication aspect (as in James) would mean salvation is by works,if that were the only aspect. But many passages make it clear it is not by works but grace. Context makes all the difference.
Yes totally agree with you that context makes the difference. Justification is clearly a faith based process. The works however are also clearly connected to Justification.

We must put them together in their right biblical place. So this tells us that Faith true faith has works that follow it. Fruit if you will.

No works no real faith. They can not be separated. While the works are contingent on faith just as fruit needs first the seed. so also a lack of fruit shows a lack of seed. or a lack of works show a lack of faith.
 

gotime

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2011
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#44
just curious if you sincerely do not no what being justified means because you asked is that all that is needed.

We are justified by Faith in CHRIST alone and not Faith in CHRIST plus works.
I did not say I do not know. I asked a question to gain different perspectives and possible areas I have overlooked or missed myself.

As to your second sentence I would need more explanation.

Sure we are justified by Christ alone through faith. But works are a part of faith therefore your statement includes the works/fruit of faith.

But it is the faith that brings the works and thus it is the faith and not the works that save. works are simply the outgrowth of faith.
 
Aug 15, 2009
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#45
could I suggest something friend? I have often said what you have said just now and I know what you mean.

But may I suggest that "proven" is not the best word. Many read it and will not see what you are trying to say. Rather "evidenced" faith.

The works of obedience are fruits of faith in God. Abraham for example did not obey to prove his faith all though his obedience did indeed prove his faith. But rather He obeyed not to prove but simply because he had faith. complete trust in God.

I know that is what you mean but the word prove does not go down well in this place.
Agreed. :)
 

gotime

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2011
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#46
It also helps to understand that Justification is not the goal of the believer. Rather it is the avenue to what Christ came to do.
 
Oct 3, 2015
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#47
what is justification? and is it all that is needed for salvation?

Biblical answers please, e.g. actually use your bible to back your answers cheers.
Justification is our standing in Christ by faith alone. In Him we are blameless and holy. See Col 1:21-23
 

gotime

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2011
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#48
In other words Jesus did not die only to justify us. but Justification was needed to sanctify us.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#49
Yes totally agree with you that context makes the difference. Justification is clearly a faith based process. The works however are also clearly connected to Justification.

We must put them together in their right biblical place. So this tells us that Faith true faith has works that follow it. Fruit if you will.

No works no real faith. They can not be separated. While the works are contingent on faith just as fruit needs first the seed. so also a lack of fruit shows a lack of seed. or a lack of works show a lack of faith.

A LACK OF BIBLICAL WORKS DOES NOT EQUATE TO NO SALVATION as many who are saved will have works of wood, hay and stubble which is indicative of a worldy believer who did not serve as.one who is faithful!
 

gotime

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2011
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#50
Justification is our standing in Christ by faith alone. In Him we are blameless and holy. See Col 1:21-23
Nice texts friend. One question, are we blameless and holy only by label or Does God make us blameless and holy?
 
Oct 3, 2015
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#51
It is an extremely important distinction that would save tons of heartache and headache trying to reconcile Paul and James and some other passages.
This one between Paul and James is easy.

Paul is writing about works of the law.

James is writing about works of faith. He gives two examples. I'll only address one:

Rahab was a prostitute, yet she believed in God. How do I know? Works, not works of the law (for she was an adulteress), works of faith. How so? She was willing to lay her life on the line in order to help the spies....

That's a faith that works by love....On the other hand, Paul is right, by the works of the law no one will be justified. No one is good enough.

Keep in mind Rahab was already just in the coming Messiah. Her works of faith proved her faith.
 
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gotime

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2011
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#52


This one between Paul and James is easy.

Paul is writing about works of the law.

James is writing about works of faith. He gives two examples. I'll only address one:

Rahab was a prostitute, yet she believed in God. How do I know? Works, not works of the law (for she was an adulteress), works of faith. How so? She was willing to lay her life on the line in order to help the spies....

That's a faith that works by love....On the other hand, Paul is right, by the works of the law no one will be justified.
what do you make of Paul's words here?

Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
 
Oct 3, 2015
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#53
Nice texts friend. One question, are we blameless and holy only by label or Does God make us blameless and holy?

We are holy and blameless only in Christ Jesus.

But, as we wait for Him to return, we get to experience growth in grace. This does not add to Christ's finished work, rather it witnesses to our faith in Him.

If we think it add or is meritorious, we are in danger of reverting to legalism. What happens if we think we can justify ourselves before God?

Gal 5:4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

So we are only righteous in Christ, but in the meantime we get to experience Christ because His Spirit is in us. Again, growth in grace doesn't add to Christ's finished work.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#54
what do you make of Paul's words here?

Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
It simply means that hearing the words of GOD is not enough; one must actually do the will of GOD.

​Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. Matthew 7:24
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#55
Yes totally agree with you that context makes the difference. Justification is clearly a faith based process. The works however are also clearly connected to Justification.

We must put them together in their right biblical place. So this tells us that Faith true faith has works that follow it. Fruit if you will.

No works no real faith. They can not be separated. While the works are contingent on faith just as fruit needs first the seed. so also a lack of fruit shows a lack of seed. or a lack of works show a lack of faith.
When it comes to salvation/justification the ONLY connection to works is His works not ours. You must keep our works out of the equation...to mix our works with justification/salvation is a false gospel.
The issue is...is it our works that Justify us or Christ's works for salvation?
 
Oct 3, 2015
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#56
what do you make of Paul's words here?

Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Another easy one, if we look at the context:

Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned under the law will be judged by the law 13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified).

The phrase "under law" means to be ruled by the law. It means your salvation is based on the keeping of the law. This is the old covenant.

What Paul is telling the legalistic Jews is it isn't enough to hear the law read in Synagogue, you must keep the law if you wish to be justified by the law. And the law requires 100% righteousness with no failure. Failure to keep all the law brings the curse.

Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them."

 
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Oct 3, 2015
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#57
It simply means that hearing the words of GOD is not enough; one must actually do the will of GOD.
​Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. Matthew 7:24
Out of context....The context in Romans 2:12,13
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#58
When it comes to salvation/justification the ONLY connection to works is His works not ours. You must keep our works out of the equation...to mix our works with justification/salvation is a false gospel.
The issue is...is it our works that Justify us or Christ's works for salvation?
I will trust the work of Christ as our works are as a filthy rag....funny how a several on here trust themselves more than Jesus!
 
Oct 3, 2015
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#59
I will trust the work of Christ as our works are as a filthy rag....funny how a several on here trust themselves more than Jesus!
Yes, to many it's I plus Christ. But the gospel is "not I, but Christ"!
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,707
3,650
113
#60


This one between Paul and James is easy.

Paul is writing about works of the law.

James is writing about works of faith. He gives two examples. I'll only address one:

Rahab was a prostitute, yet she believed in God. How do I know? Works, not works of the law (for she was an adulteress), works of faith. How so? She was willing to lay her life on the line in order to help the spies....

That's a faith that works by love....On the other hand, Paul is right, by the works of the law no one will be justified. No one is good enough.

Keep in mind Rahab was already just in the coming Messiah. Her works of faith proved her faith.
That's what I've been saying, her works vindicate (show evidence) of her faith.