It is sad to see the disrespect some have for others who want to do a study, and the unwillingness of these to be open to the truth of scripture, and the way they twist verses such as 1st Thess 1:10, 5:9 and Revelation 3:10 to fit their agenda instead of taking it for what it is says. Now let mme expose this lie that these scripture somehow support the pretrib rapture.
1st Thessalonians 1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which has delivered us from the wrath to come.
To get a pretrib view out of this verse you would first have to make two assumptions, neither of which are scriptural. #1 That the wrath to come is the tribulation, and # 2 that the deliverance from this wrath is the rapture. As for the first assumption, you can believe the wrath to come to be many things. You can believe it to be a seven year tribulation, you can believe it to be the three and a half years of great tribulation, you can believe it to be the judgment of God when He separates the sheep from the goats, you can believe that it is Hell, or the lake of fire. As for me, I believe it is the judgment of God, when Jesus destroys the wicked with fire, which occurs at the post trib second coming, and I will prove as much biblically. What you can not do is arbitrarily proclaim that the wrath equals the seven year tribulation period. The second assumption, needed to be made is that the deliverance from the wrath is the rapture, which is completely false. The scripture says that He ''has delivered us'' from the wrath to come past tense, the rapture is still in the future. Therefore the only way scripture could possibly refer to the rapture is if it read, who ''will deliver us'' from the wrath to come future tense. Conclusion, both assumption are unbiblical. The wrath is the judgment of God upon the wicked and the deliverance is the death of Jesus on the cross. We are not delivered from the tribulation by the rapture, but from judgment by the cross. That is the true meaning of this verse.
So what is the wrath to come?
Matthew 3:7-12
7 But when he ( John the Baptist) saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
9 And think not to say within yourselves, we have Abraham as our father: for I say unto you that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
10 And now also the ax is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree that brings forth not good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire
11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he will baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire.
12 Whose fan is in his hand, he shall throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into his garner, but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
There is only three times in the New Testament that the phrase ''wrath to come'' is mentioned. Once in 1st Thessalonians 1:10, once here in Matthew 3:7 and in Luke 3:7 which is telling the same story about John the Baptist warning the masses of the wrath that is to come. So what is the ''wrath to come'' that he was warning them from? It is the purging of the floor mentioned in verse 12. It is the baptism of fire when the wicked will be overwhelmed by fire at the return of Jesus, it is the burning of the chaff which will occur when Jesus returns at the post trib second coming. The wrath to come that Jesus has delivered us from by his death and resurrection, is the destruction of the wicked by fire at the second coming of Christ.
Now for the two scriptures carrier gives...
1st Thessalonians 5:9 For God has not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ.
Once again to get the pretrib rapture from this verse you must assume that the wrath is the tribulation, and our salvation is the rapture. Our Salvation is Jesus Christ, not the rapture, and we are saved from Hell, not the tribulation. This verse has been grossly misrepresented by the pretrib supporters.
Let me ask this, if our salvation is from the tribulation, what about the tribulational saints? If they are saved by the same blood of Christ as we are, then why are they not ''raptured'' the moment of their salvations, why are they appointed to wrath? If we are not appointed to wrath then no believer of any age is appointed to wrath. It is obvious that this verse has nothing to do with the rapture, tribulation ect...
Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I will also keep thee from the hour of temptation, which will come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
This is by far the best scripture the pretrib movement has, yet it does not even come close to inferring that we will be snatched into Heaven before the tribulation to elude God's wrath upon the world. Anyone that believes this some how proves the pretrib rapture can be easily corrected. Remember verse 10 says that because we have kept his word he will keep us from the hour of temptation but verse 11 tells us to hold fast until his return.
Revelation 3:11 Behold, I come quickly: hold fast to what thou hast, that no man take your crown.
We know that He returns after the tribulation because in Revelation 2:16 Jesus tells the church to repent or else He will come and fight against them with the sword from His mouth. We see in Revelation chapter 19 that this event is after the tribulation.
Revelation 19:11-15
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon it was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doest judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dripped with blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. ( by the way the armies clothed in white are the dead in Christ returning from heaven to receive immortal bodies and or the angels, not the raptured saints)
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp two edge sword, that he should smite the nations: and he should rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness of the wrath of Almighty God.
All are in agreement that this happens after the tribulation, and again in Revelation 2:16 He says He is coming quickly to fight against the unrepentant with the sword from his mouth.
Revelation 2:16 Repent: or else I will come unto thee quickly and fight against thee with the sword of my mouth.
So if the coming quickly in Revelation 2:16 is post tribulational, then the coming quickly in Revelation 3:11 is post tribulational as well.
So if we are to believe that Revelation 3:10 is saying that Jesus is going to rapture us out of the world before the tribulation. Then we must accept the in one verse he tells us that we will be rapture before the tribulation '' Rev 3:10'', and then in the very next verse he tell us to hold to our faith until after the tribulation is over '' Rev 3:11''. How could this be, there must be something wrong, so what is it? Jesus would not contradict Himself.
John 17:15 tells us that Jesus actually prays to the Father, that He would not remove us from the world, but that he would keep us from evil.
John 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but thou should keep them from the evil.
We know that Jesus was not just praying for the disciples only, but for all believers because of what it says in John 17:20.
John 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also that shall believe on me through their word;
So now we know not only can God keep us from evil, and keep us from the hour of temptation, without removing us from the world, but that it would actually be against the prayer of Jesus Himself if we were raptured out of the world. We are kept from the hour of temptation through divine protection not the pretrib rapture. This does not mean that we will be immune to the wrath of man, but just as the apostles, that are faith would not fail.
1st Thessalonians 1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which has delivered us from the wrath to come.
To get a pretrib view out of this verse you would first have to make two assumptions, neither of which are scriptural. #1 That the wrath to come is the tribulation, and # 2 that the deliverance from this wrath is the rapture. As for the first assumption, you can believe the wrath to come to be many things. You can believe it to be a seven year tribulation, you can believe it to be the three and a half years of great tribulation, you can believe it to be the judgment of God when He separates the sheep from the goats, you can believe that it is Hell, or the lake of fire. As for me, I believe it is the judgment of God, when Jesus destroys the wicked with fire, which occurs at the post trib second coming, and I will prove as much biblically. What you can not do is arbitrarily proclaim that the wrath equals the seven year tribulation period. The second assumption, needed to be made is that the deliverance from the wrath is the rapture, which is completely false. The scripture says that He ''has delivered us'' from the wrath to come past tense, the rapture is still in the future. Therefore the only way scripture could possibly refer to the rapture is if it read, who ''will deliver us'' from the wrath to come future tense. Conclusion, both assumption are unbiblical. The wrath is the judgment of God upon the wicked and the deliverance is the death of Jesus on the cross. We are not delivered from the tribulation by the rapture, but from judgment by the cross. That is the true meaning of this verse.
So what is the wrath to come?
Matthew 3:7-12
7 But when he ( John the Baptist) saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
9 And think not to say within yourselves, we have Abraham as our father: for I say unto you that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
10 And now also the ax is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree that brings forth not good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire
11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he will baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire.
12 Whose fan is in his hand, he shall throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into his garner, but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
There is only three times in the New Testament that the phrase ''wrath to come'' is mentioned. Once in 1st Thessalonians 1:10, once here in Matthew 3:7 and in Luke 3:7 which is telling the same story about John the Baptist warning the masses of the wrath that is to come. So what is the ''wrath to come'' that he was warning them from? It is the purging of the floor mentioned in verse 12. It is the baptism of fire when the wicked will be overwhelmed by fire at the return of Jesus, it is the burning of the chaff which will occur when Jesus returns at the post trib second coming. The wrath to come that Jesus has delivered us from by his death and resurrection, is the destruction of the wicked by fire at the second coming of Christ.
Now for the two scriptures carrier gives...
1st Thessalonians 5:9 For God has not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ.
Once again to get the pretrib rapture from this verse you must assume that the wrath is the tribulation, and our salvation is the rapture. Our Salvation is Jesus Christ, not the rapture, and we are saved from Hell, not the tribulation. This verse has been grossly misrepresented by the pretrib supporters.
Let me ask this, if our salvation is from the tribulation, what about the tribulational saints? If they are saved by the same blood of Christ as we are, then why are they not ''raptured'' the moment of their salvations, why are they appointed to wrath? If we are not appointed to wrath then no believer of any age is appointed to wrath. It is obvious that this verse has nothing to do with the rapture, tribulation ect...
Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I will also keep thee from the hour of temptation, which will come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
This is by far the best scripture the pretrib movement has, yet it does not even come close to inferring that we will be snatched into Heaven before the tribulation to elude God's wrath upon the world. Anyone that believes this some how proves the pretrib rapture can be easily corrected. Remember verse 10 says that because we have kept his word he will keep us from the hour of temptation but verse 11 tells us to hold fast until his return.
Revelation 3:11 Behold, I come quickly: hold fast to what thou hast, that no man take your crown.
We know that He returns after the tribulation because in Revelation 2:16 Jesus tells the church to repent or else He will come and fight against them with the sword from His mouth. We see in Revelation chapter 19 that this event is after the tribulation.
Revelation 19:11-15
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon it was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doest judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dripped with blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. ( by the way the armies clothed in white are the dead in Christ returning from heaven to receive immortal bodies and or the angels, not the raptured saints)
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp two edge sword, that he should smite the nations: and he should rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness of the wrath of Almighty God.
All are in agreement that this happens after the tribulation, and again in Revelation 2:16 He says He is coming quickly to fight against the unrepentant with the sword from his mouth.
Revelation 2:16 Repent: or else I will come unto thee quickly and fight against thee with the sword of my mouth.
So if the coming quickly in Revelation 2:16 is post tribulational, then the coming quickly in Revelation 3:11 is post tribulational as well.
So if we are to believe that Revelation 3:10 is saying that Jesus is going to rapture us out of the world before the tribulation. Then we must accept the in one verse he tells us that we will be rapture before the tribulation '' Rev 3:10'', and then in the very next verse he tell us to hold to our faith until after the tribulation is over '' Rev 3:11''. How could this be, there must be something wrong, so what is it? Jesus would not contradict Himself.
John 17:15 tells us that Jesus actually prays to the Father, that He would not remove us from the world, but that he would keep us from evil.
John 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but thou should keep them from the evil.
We know that Jesus was not just praying for the disciples only, but for all believers because of what it says in John 17:20.
John 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also that shall believe on me through their word;
So now we know not only can God keep us from evil, and keep us from the hour of temptation, without removing us from the world, but that it would actually be against the prayer of Jesus Himself if we were raptured out of the world. We are kept from the hour of temptation through divine protection not the pretrib rapture. This does not mean that we will be immune to the wrath of man, but just as the apostles, that are faith would not fail.
