Scriptures that prove the post trib rapture.

DaivdM · Oct 1, 2011

So many people say that the pre-trib dotrine is false because it started in 1800s by some guy Darby
But they don't know the history of the bible

Bibles were giving to people around 1700s-1800s.... Before 1700s people didn't have bibles, only the churches had a bible... and people only listened to what the pastor or teacher told them...
But after bile were multiplying and given to people, they started to realize the truth.......

ohhh yeah

There is a book by a greek or latin guy..... It was written around 100AC or 200AC.... Don't remember that much, he wrote something about the rapture (He didnt mention the word rapture) been before the tribulation....
But the book was never translated to English or any other languages......

DaivdM · Oct 1, 2011

watchmen said:

Actually there is no Christian surviver after the tribulation or gathering together(rapture).... The ressuration that happen after the tribulation is for the people that were beheaded

Scotth1960 · Oct 1, 2011

watchmen said:

Let me start off by saying this is NOT a debate thread. There are many debate threads in this forum you can choose from if you want to debate the timimg of the rapture. This thread was started from a request I received from someone in the chat room to give scriptures that would help them to understand the post trib rapture so here they are.

The first thing I will say is to prove the post trib rapture you only need to show two things in scripture (although I will do much more than that in this post) #1 that the 2nd coming is after the Tribulation, and #2 that the rapture is at the 2nd coming. (side note: the resurrection of the just is also at the post trib 2nd coming of Christ yet before the rapture this is important to know as we move on)

So #1 The 2nd coming is after the tribulation
Matthew 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds from one end of heaven to the other.
There is no mistaking, the meaning of this verse, nor can you mistake when it will take place. The coming of the Son of man is immediately after the tribulation of those day. Just to show that this is the Great Tribulation and just one tribulation of many lets start the text at verse 21 and read through verse 31.
Matthew 24:21-31
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days be shortened, there shall no flesh be saved: but for the elects sake those days shall be shortened.
23 then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds from one end of heaven to the other.
There is no doubt that this is referring to The Great Tribulation and not just a tribulation. We also see that it is after the tribulation that Jesus returns. We also see that there is a gathering together of the elect at this point. Some argue that this is the Jewish elect not the church, but we have already shown the deception behind this teaching. Others argue that they are gathered from Heaven and not from Earth because they were raptured seven years earlier before the tribulation started. So I will now show in Mark 13:24-27, the sister scripture to Matthew 24:29-31 that they not only gathered from Heaven, but from Heaven and Earth.
Mark 13:24-27
24 But in those days, after this tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light.
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then he shall send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
So we see that Jesus gathers the elect from Heaven and Earth at the end of the tribulation from Heaven'' the dead in Christ'' from Earth '' those that are still living''. We also see that this is the Great Tribulation not a tribulation as verse 19 shows
Mark 13:19 For in those day there shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.
We can make the case from these scriptures that the resurrection of the just, and the rapture is after the tribulation. However that is not the point I am using them to make. The point is the second coming of Christ is after the Great Tribulation, and biblically you can clearly see that this is the case. Now I will show you that the rapture is at this post trib second coming.

#2 The rapture is at the 2nd coming of Christ (which per point 1 is post trib.
1st Thessalonians 4:15-17
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend with a shout, with the voice of an arch angel, and with the trump of God: and the dead will rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall ever be with the Lord.
There are two main things I would like you to notice about this verse. First that the dead in Christ rise first. This is important because, there will be scripture use later that speaks of the resurrection of the just happening at the second coming, and we need to realize that the living will not precede the dead but will be caught up after them. So if the resurrection of the just is post trib then the rapture would be as well. Secondly I will give you the timing of this event that all agree is the rapture.
Verse 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
The rapture takes place at the coming of the Lord, which we have already shown is after the tribulation. I could stop right now this is all the proof we need, but I have more. By the way, some thing for you to notice if a pretrib teacher ever teaches on the rapture they will skip verse 15 and quote verse 16 and 17 only. Is this open deception or an over sight? I will let you decide.
　
1st Corinthians 15:20-23
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward that they are Christ's at his coming.
We will all be resurrected and there will be an order. Jesus is first, that has already happen, and then those that are Christ's, those that have been saved (Christians) at His coming. There is no mention of a resurrection of the righteous between Jesus' resurrection and his second coming. As a matter of fact it says that those that belong to Christ will be resurrection at the post trib second coming. We saw in 1st Thessalonians that the dead are raised before the living are raptured. So if the resurrection of the dead in Christ is at the post trib second coming then the rapture has to be as well.
　
2nd Thessalonians 2:1-3
1 Now we beseech you, bretheren. by the coming of the Lord and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled in spirit, nor by word, nor by letter from us, and the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there be a falling away first, and the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.
In verse 1 Paul is speaking of two events. the coming of the Lord or '' The second coming'' and the gathering together unto him or '' the resurrection of the just and or rapture''. In verse 3 we see that Paul says these two event happen on a singular day ''That day''. Also in verse 3 Paul writes that that day could not happen until after the falling away takes place and the anti christ is revealed. Some pretrib preachers go as far as to say the falling away is the rapture, teaching that the rapture must come before the second coming. However the greek word for falling away is ''apostasia'', which literally means a turning from the truth. So the church itself will turn from the truth and then the anti christ will be revealed and then the rapture can take place, not before. This passage excludes the pretrib view because we know that the anti christ will not be revealed before the tribulation starts. Further more it proves the post trib view because it declares that the second coming and the rapture take place on the same day. These two events are not seven years apart, not three and a half years apart, not one year, one month or one day apart. They occur on the same exact day.
　
1st John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.
When does Christ appear? At his post trib second coming. When shall we be like him? When we receive our heavenly bodies, which is at the resurrection of the just and or the rapture. So this verse actually says that we will be resurrected and or raptured to receive our heavenly immortal bodies at the post trib second coming.
　
I think the scriptural evidence of a post trib rapture that I have presented so far is overwhelming.

As I said this is more than enough proof for the post trib rapture, yet I will continue in my next post to show that there is no ambiguity to what the Bible tells us about the timmi9ng of the rapture

Thus saith the LORD Jesus Christ: "I do not pray that Thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that Thou shouldest keep them from the evil one." John 17:15.

truenorth · Oct 2, 2011

Just noticed two post-trib posters have been banned. Can anyone shed light on why? Am I next?

Red33 · Oct 2, 2011

No you are not next. They obviously had some other issues.

Concerning the term SAINTS that we see pop up during the time of the great tribulation in (Rev 13:7). This is just a practical observation of the truth concerning SAINTS that we see in the scriptures. In the NT church we see some (45) references over (12) books and letters of the NT scriptures made to those saints that make up the NT church. There are (30) references made in the OT scriptures concerning the OT saints including the saints that were resurrected when Christ rose from the dead in (Mt 27:52). So far we have NT saints that make up the church and we had the OT saints that have nothing to do with the church. This brings us to the Tribulation saints that some think are the NT saints that make up the church of spiritual Israel that is passing through the great tribulation.

These tribulation saints are no more part of the NT church then were the OT saints. The (6) references made in (Dan 7) refer to the future saints associated with the saints of this tribulation period. In (Jude 14) reference is made to saints that come with Christ from heaven to execute judgment, this can only refer to the second coming of Christ and these saints are seen coming WITH Christ. These are saints already in heaven. Could these saints who come WITH Christ have only their soul and not also a glorified body? If they have a glorified body then there must have been a resurrection that has already taken place for them to have put on immortality and incorruption. But there are those that question the fact that these saints that come with Christ from heaven at the second coming to execute judgment have their glorified bodies when the first resurrection has not taken place yet according to (Rev 20:5,6)? Is the first resurrection a reference to the church or to the elect of Israel that believe upon the Messiah and the Lamb of God? What is the resurrection that is referred to in (Mt 22:23-33) and who does it pertain to?

Something else that is very interesting is (Rev 20:1-6) that says the following...

1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up , and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled : and after that he must be loosed a little season.4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image , neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished . This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

This passage of scripture has been spiritualized and treated so deceitfully by so many because they are so desperate to justify their own understanding and doctrine of end time events in relationship to Israel and the church that they heave twisted themselves right out of the truth of what this passage is testifying concerning the revelation of Christ. This passage has caused more problems with these people than can even be imagined.

If any want to discuss this passage, let's do it decently and in order and with a chronological mindset so that we can come to the understanding of the truth as these events were set forth and put in motion through the foreknowledge and dispensation of God's eternal purpose and plan for the ages.

GaryMac · Oct 2, 2011

Trials and tribulation start the moment you put on the Christ, Gods Spirit in you. Look at Jesus life, he was fine until God came to him in Spirit and opened heaven to the man and only then did he go through such scrutiny from Matt 3:16 on then his life changed, he went through trials, tribulation even up to the point of crucifixion. If you have not experienced what Jesus did, and He said you would if you put on His Spirit, then you haven’t a clue what it is to be taken out of this world where all things become new, a new heaven and earth, the kingdom of God is within you -- and will know what it is to experience trials and tribulations as Jesus did, and Paul, and John, Peter, all of us who has His same Spirit go through it.

Red33 · Oct 3, 2011

Red33 said:

No you are not next. They obviously had some other issues.

Concerning the term SAINTS that we see pop up during the time of the great tribulation in (Rev 13:7). This is just a practical observation of the truth concerning SAINTS that we see in the scriptures. In the NT church we see some (45) references over (12) books and letters of the NT scriptures made to those saints that make up the NT church. There are (30) references made in the OT scriptures concerning the OT saints including the saints that were resurrected when Christ rose from the dead in (Mt 27:52). So far we have NT saints that make up the church and we had the OT saints that have nothing to do with the church. This brings us to the Tribulation saints that some think are the NT saints that make up the church of spiritual Israel that is passing through the great tribulation.

These tribulation saints are no more part of the NT church then were the OT saints. The (6) references made in (Dan 7) refer to the future saints associated with the saints of this tribulation period. In (Jude 14) reference is made to saints that come with Christ from heaven to execute judgment, this can only refer to the second coming of Christ and these saints are seen coming WITH Christ. These are saints already in heaven. Could these saints who come WITH Christ have only their soul and not also a glorified body? If they have a glorified body then there must have been a resurrection that has already taken place for them to have put on immortality and incorruption. But there are those that question the fact that these saints that come with Christ from heaven at the second coming to execute judgment have their glorified bodies when the first resurrection has not taken place yet according to (Rev 20:5,6)? Is the first resurrection a reference to the church or to the elect of Israel that believe upon the Messiah and the Lamb of God? What is the resurrection that is referred to in (Mt 22:23-33) and who does it pertain to?

Something else that is very interesting is (Rev 20:1-6) that says the following...

1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up , and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled : and after that he must be loosed a little season.4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image , neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished . This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

This passage of scripture has been spiritualized and treated so deceitfully by so many because they are so desperate to justify their own understanding and doctrine of end time events in relationship to Israel and the church that they heave twisted themselves right out of the truth of what this passage is testifying concerning the revelation of Christ. This passage has caused more problems with these people than can even be imagined.

If any want to discuss this passage, let's do it decently and in order and with a chronological mindset so that we can come to the understanding of the truth as these events were set forth and put in motion through the foreknowledge and dispensation of God's eternal purpose and plan for the ages.

The above portion of scripture (in blue) totally ruins the 'amillennialist' veiwpoint and their post-trib rant, but they don't want to deal with this because they get confused and have to spiritualize just about everything to make it fit into their understanding. The 'amillennialist' doctrine is very fraudulent and has lead many believers into a terrible understanding of the nature and mystery of Christ and the church, confusion it with Israel as God's elect, distorting the resurrections and also the dispensation of the kingdom of God on the earth. It is best to stay away from those that teach it and adhere to its error. Find yourself a local church that teaches the finished work of Christ, the grace of God and dispensational truth so that you can have the opportunity to grow in grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ and with loving believers that live by faith in the love of the truth.

Abiding · Oct 3, 2011

Red its not called Spiritualizing at all to have amil view of Revelation 20. It would be more like symbolic
Is that abnormal for Revelations?

How? i wonder does a eschatological view do the things you claim it does. You claim it hinders the finish work of Christ,
the grace of God, and growth in the knowledge of Christ, love, faith, and truth.

Red please explain. I see it sure pops your bubble. Which is fine. But it appears your going overboard
with your claims about the sideeffects of a improper view of last things.

You make it sound as if its malice that drives ones position on this. When work and toil has gone into
many peoples decision on the matter. Maybe people have done their best work. And maybe there
shouldnt be such a division over this.

Red33 · Oct 3, 2011

Abiding said:

Our best work is to hear from God, especially when it goes against our own understanding no matter how much labour we have put into it. When you use symbolism to interpret a text you are spiritualizing and giving it a subjective meaning as is the view of the 'amillennialism' concerning (Rev 20:1-6). Every part o God's word is sacred and when two people think differently or are diametrically opposed concerning the same text, you have dvision and strife right off the bat, so take your biggest swing and see what you hit. BTW - Why don't you get your own bubble gum and snap your own bubbles, at least you can be original with that.

Abiding · Oct 3, 2011

Red33 said:

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Why do you have to be so personal red? And take shots at people? its just plain mean and tiring.
I asked if a person is able to read revelation without finding
a major portion of it symbolic? My point is that it isnt that big of an error to wonder which is literal
or symbolic. I dont understand what you mean when you say if you look at something symbolic and
search the bible for whether there is other places this possible symbol is used and if so...then it is '
a possible consideration. But to call it spiritualizing, im not following at all. "Mystery babylon" i could
agree could be called spiritualized language. But not Rev 20.

The thing about division and strife off the bat. Most of that comes from sin...not ones stance on the issue.
There may be positions on doctrine that cause division. But strife is a choice. Red why the cheap shots at me?
What is it accomplishing for you? Why the inferences to people who have similiar stances on doctrine and
you talk as if they are in league...why are you doing this? What is your motive?

zone · Oct 3, 2011

Red33 said:

one of these days i hope you apply this to yourself.
pretrib is a joke.
and dispensational theology is rubbish.

amillennialism is God's Plan. and its beautiful and glorious.

btw: i think perhaps you have a little jealousy issue with Mike? just a hunch. you're projecting your stuff on to him. i wonder why?
he's only ever been fair and reasonable with you.
oh well. hopefully you'll extend me grace to help you with the stumbling blocks you're laying.

love zone.

shroom2 · Oct 3, 2011

zone said:

Sorry, zonester. Pretrib and dispensationalism are beautifully biblical, amillennialism is not. Christ is not reigning now, the devil is not bound now. Look around you. The world is a trainwreck. If Christ is ruling now, he isn't doing a very good job. Those things are still future, and will commence at the end of the trib, which will not start until we're outa here. After armageddon Christ WILL be reigning with a "rod of iron", and satan will be bound. Paradise on earth for 1000 years.

notIbutChrist · Oct 3, 2011

shroom2 said:

The pretrib rapture, and amillenialism are both unbiblical

shroom2 · Oct 3, 2011

notIbutChrist said:

Interesting. Most people believe one or the other. I'm firmly pre-trib/pre-mill. What do you believe?

notIbutChrist · Oct 3, 2011

shroom2 said:

I am post trib/pre-mil. This is what the Apostles, and original first century church believed and taught. It is called ''Histrical Premillinalism''. It is called historical because it is the historical premillennialist view. Dispensationalism/pretrib was not taught nor believed by the original church

notIbutChrist · Oct 3, 2011

notIbutChrist said:

A side note, almillennialism is a false teaching started by the catholic church. Historical premillennialism was declared heresy in the late 300s by the apostate catholic church, and from then on most of the orgianized false church believed almillennialism until the reformation. However the apostolic view is post trib/ pre-mil. Dispensationalism was not formed until the 1800s

shroom2 · Oct 4, 2011

notIbutChrist said:

That is your opinion, and I believe it is wrong. I believe Paul taught pretrib. Christians are saved from the wrath to come.

Red33 · Oct 4, 2011

zone said:

Some like to dish things out on people but don't like it when it comes back on them and you and others make it personal to justify your self knowledge. You folks have dished it out continually and it time you stopped. Amillennialism is not the plan or will of God and there is nothing beautiful or glorious about it, especially concerning the mystery of Christ and the church, His body and bride. You have got it all backward and the very thing that makes it all come together you call it evil. I would say that's coming close to calling evil good and good evil and not just some private interpretation through all your wasted effort and labour.

You think, just because you put all this labour into it that you must be right, along with all those internet friends, preachers and commentators you cherry pick to gratify your self knowledge. You go against so much of the word of God to twist yourself out of the truth to gain predictable shame and error. You reject so much of the body of Christ and the teaching that Christ has given to it as edification through His pastor-teachers. You are a conspiracy nut that hates dispensational truth and all those that have conviction and love of the truth. As far as your personality rapport that you have with others who are likeminded with you, they are under the same error and the same distortion of the nature of God and the mercy and grace of our Lord Jesus Christ.

zone · Oct 4, 2011

shroom2 said:

hi shroom

nah.

1) pretrib has been laughably debunked over and over and over, and is easily done so on any day of the week.

it is exegetically and eschatologically IMPOSSIBLE. it would short-circuit God's Plan.
its was given to the church by the very people who need it to perpetuate the deception (this can be proven easily any day also. and is), and apparently its being allowed by God within the church. i guess i separates those who truly seek and hear vs those who listen to men.

in fact it's a mark of one of the worst false gospels ever perpetuated. it's part of the grand lie.

2) dispensationalism is the the mothership lie within Christendom, pretrib being a sub-set for any who will buy it. many do, and they (not all) as a whole actually do the enemy's work willingly, albeit unknowingly (though i have searched to see whether God makes a distinction between the deceivers and the decieved and can't find it).

dispensational theology is so antichrist, and so opposed to the Plan of God FROM THE BEGINNING i find it staggering that it isn't seen for what it is. again, apparently people trust others to tell them what to believe. it distorts everything about God...His character, His will, all of it.

its really is so serious, if i believed it and heard warnings against it, i'd set it down and weigh it for truth...it's not a little thing, at all. its' pure deception. its like reading some other god's plan altogether.
horrendous.

3) Christ is reigning now. HIS CHURCH.
He was King the first time.
God deals with the "world" the same way He always has.

do a teeny bit of work on what "the rod of iron" is

but, the drug of dispensational theology keeps men blind to that truth.
all the rest of the post........ya ya.....once upon a time......

really shroom, if you ever come out from under it, you'll wonder how you ever bought into it.

later
zone

zone · Oct 4, 2011

notIbutChrist said:

what's the future 1,000 year rule for?

can you provide evidence for it in scripture please?

thanks.

Scriptures that prove the post trib rapture.

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