Self Defense - Is it wrong?

[maxwel]

I don't see how you logically made the jump from my question to 'he's mocking', but I suppose I shouldn't expect anything less than overly-defensive mob-mentality here.

My point was, is forebearance only a trait worth having if it makes you a martyr? Or should it be something applied daily and consistently?

TripleA,
Your profile makes it clear you are NOT a Christian.

If you're not a Christian, why are you on a Christian site,
debating the minutia of Christian doctrines?

Your comments make it clear you're just here to ridicule, debate, and cause problems.

Why don't you just admit you're here to debate and ridicule?
Why not just be honest?

 

[Butch5]

If you were to defend yourself by fighting, or somebody else, is it okay? Or should we turn the other cheek, and allow ourselves to be beaten?

I am curious as to the poll results.

I am talking about strictly hand to hand combat, not weapons.

Please post your reasoning for your vote with scripture in the comments.

Thank you for participating.

I believe it's wrong, Jesus said, love your enemies.

 

[RedTent]

I believe it's wrong, Jesus said, love your enemies.

What does loving your enemies have to do with protecting yourself and others from them if they try to harm?

Jesus also said: Mat_5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

In many places in the OT that Jesus fulfilled, it speaks of protection of God's chosen people. We are chosen by God.

 

[Allin]

I've never had to throw a punch in my life. However,

If someone wants to throw a punch my way out of anger or frustration, so be it. I'd like to think I'd let it go. But if someone wants to keep wailing on me, I'm going to defend myself.

I will defend someone else, but only to the degree it stops.

However, if you touch my family, I will bust loose all sorts of holy hell. Never underestimate the frantic and crazy actions of a man who has no idea what he's doing!

Say real things, man.

 

[ThomistColin]

What does loving your enemies have to do with protecting yourself and others from them if they try to harm?

Jesus also said: Mat_5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

In many places in the OT that Jesus fulfilled, it speaks of protection of God's chosen people. We are chosen by God.

And for over two thousand years, God allows His chosen to be murdered, raped, tortured, arrested, outlawed, and thrown into labor camps in Siberia. God's not calling us to fight force with force, but force with mercy and sacrifice.

 

[Allin]

Show us a scriptural passage that shows Jesus ever fought back, ever "defended" Himself.

He didn't need to; God the Father was defending Him until His time came. Several times (at least two times) when people tried to 'lay hands on Him', we see that He escaped miraculously. He didn't have to defend Himself because He had Someone defending Him. The fact is that God defends us too; but sometimes things don't go as they would if we were walking perfectly like Jesus did (i.e. God defending us 100% of the time: refer to Ps. 91). It's never wrong to defend yourself in other aspects of life; why is it wrong to defend yourself because another person is going to be 'hurt' in the process? Maybe they should have Christian self-defense classes that teach the focus of defending yourself and not harming others.

 

[Allin]

Explain how the Jews were prevented from stoning Jesus? Why didn't Jesus allow Himself to be stoned? What Jesus is talking about when He says to turn the other cheek is to not return evil for evil. He is referring to the eye for an eye law,which is the payment for a wrong done, NOT self-defense.

God prevented the Jews from harming Jesus. If you walk through a bad area of town and God doesn't defend you from being attacked, you can either say, "It's God's will for me to get stomped on", or you can defend yourself (run, fight, it's all self-defense) and say, "I'm not walking that way again." We defend ourselves in every other area of life; how is it suddenly wrong to defend yourself when it's another person attacking you?

 

[Allin]

You walking away doesn't prevent ME from responding, NOR did it stop the Jews from stoning Jesus. SOMETHING else did. What was it?

God. God prevented it. If you read the passages where Jesus was almost killed (at least two of them), we see that He was 'carried away' supernaturally. The writers didn't say He vanished; but in the Luke 4 account, it's very apparent that He did. Walking away wouldn't stop people bent on killing Him from trying; but if He disappeared that would probably do it.

 

[Allin]

And for over two thousand years, God allows His chosen to be murdered, raped, tortured, arrested, outlawed, and thrown into labor camps in Siberia. God's not calling us to fight force with force, but force with mercy and sacrifice.

Christians don't suffer more than others: more non-Christian children and adults are murdered, raped, tortured, arrested, outlawed, and thrown into labor camps than are Christians. If it's wrong for others but right for Christians, we shouldn't keep anyone waiting but go offer ourselves willingly to all these kinds of things. Since the world already hates Christians and want to do all this to us, why wait? God isn't calling us to fight force with force or to fight with earthly weapons, but He's called all of us to live until each one's appointed time and not a minute before. Someday, the way we are to deal with these types of issues will become clear.

 

[Timeline]

I have been in three fist fights in my life. The first one I did hit the other person - no one "won" the fight (It was stopped).
In the other two fights, I did not hit at all. Nor was I hit. I do not really remember much of the details, in one I held his arm behind his back until he agreed to stop fighting. And in the other I held him until the police arrived (He only swung once, then I pulled him to the ground and put him in a hold).


Point is, many times there are ways to defend yourself without hitting anyone. - I do understand that this is definitely not always the case. In those cases, I think that you should still try to use minimal force to control the situation.

 

[TripleA]

TripleA,
Your profile makes it clear you are NOT a Christian.

If you're not a Christian, why are you on a Christian site,
debating the minutia of Christian doctrines?

Your comments make it clear you're just here to ridicule, debate, and cause problems.

Why don't you just admit you're here to debate and ridicule?
Why not just be honest?

If you were honest, you'd admit there was an unsettling logic in what I say that you either blatantly ignore or else you try to get me shown up by retreating back into your mob mentality responses in the hope I'll bite and you'll win favour with the crowd. If you ever actually responded to me with some understanding of what I was saying we might have a real discussion on the genuine issues of faith.

Otherwise, it's just pointless tit-for-tat child's play.

 

[maxwel]

If you were honest, you'd admit there was an unsettling logic in what I say that you either blatantly ignore or else you try to get me shown up by retreating back into your mob mentality responses in the hope I'll bite and you'll win favour with the crowd. If you ever actually responded to me with some understanding of what I was saying we might have a real discussion on the genuine issues of faith.

Otherwise, it's just pointless tit-for-tat child's play.

If you are not a Christian,
why did you go to all the trouble of making an account on a Christian site,
so you could post views which are argumentative and divisive?

Why are you here doing this?

 

[TripleA]

If you are not a Christian,
why did you go to all the trouble of making an account on a Christian site,
so you could post views which are argumentative and divisive?

Why are you here doing this?

What's divisive about pointing out genuine issues? Do you live in fantasy world where problems don't exist or need addressed, or do you just visit sometimes when the going gets rough?

 

[Deadtosin]

my very first heartfelt prayers to God were as a frightened 5 year old. I knew that anyone could kill me. I lived in a huge city and my father would beat my mother. I prayed "God, please, if someone or something comes to hurt me, send someone or something to protect me. If you do, when I am bigger I will protect others."

He held up His end and through the course of my life He blessed me to be in positions to learn 3 amazing martial arts that blend flawlessly together. I am bound by a pact I made with God to protect others. That is just the way it is and nothing will convince me otherwise. I will stand before God with a clear conscience and I know He knows what I'm talking about

 

[maxwel]

What's divisive about pointing out genuine issues? Do you live in fantasy world where problems don't exist or need addressed, or do you just visit sometimes when the going gets rough?

This is the height of absurdity.

You are not a Christian.
You are here pretending to talk about "genuine" issues to Christians,
when none of these issues are genuine to you in any way.

You're arguing about how Christians should behave according to scripture,
and before God, when you neither believe in scripture nor God.

You are just here trolling.

You don't believe any of the things you're arguing about,
you're just trying to argue and create conflict.

This is the very definition of TROLLING.

 

[TripleA]

This is the height of absurdity.

You are not a Christian.
You are here pretending to talk about "genuine" issues to Christians,
when none of these issues are genuine to you in any way.

You're arguing about how Christians should behave according to scripture,
and before God, when you neither believe in scripture nor God.

You are just here trolling.

You don't believe any of the things you're arguing about,
you're just trying to argue and create conflict.

This is the very definition of TROLLING.

No, it's the definition of having common sense. How can I be christian, when christian has no certain definition, since 41,000 denominations of the faith exist, all with differing definitions of what a 'christian' actually is? Thus, what I'm actually being is sensible and logical. Not 'christian', just, a reader, a person who follows.

What's wrong with that? Get off my back.

 

[Deadtosin]

Christian means "like Christ" read the bible for yourself- welcome Him into your heart and let Him change you. Forget what others say.

 

[TripleA]

Christian means "like Christ" read the bible for yourself- welcome Him into your heart and let Him change you. Forget what others say.

Well plenty of people that call themselves 'like christ' certainly are nothing like christ. Therein lies my issue. Don't assume to know me by my label or lack of one.

Plenty of christians turned out to be child molesters. Labels mean nothing.

 

[Deadtosin]

Well plenty of people that call themselves 'like christ' certainly are nothing like christ. Therein lies my issue. Don't assume to know me by my label or lack of one.

Plenty of christians turned out to be child molesters. Labels mean nothing.

I'm not assuming to know you. Your statements paint their own picture. You are right, plenty of people do call them christians who live a life that doesn't resemble christ. There are officers who don't protect or serve, there are doctors who harm etc etc. That changes nothing between you and God

 

[TripleA]

I'm not assuming to know you. Your statements paint their own picture. You are right, plenty of people do call them christians who live a life that doesn't resemble christ. There are officers who don't protect or serve, there are doctors who harm etc etc. That changes nothing between you and God

Thank you. This is the sentence. I appreciate it.