Once one has their foundation on Jesus Christ through receiving the gospel of Jesus Christ, they are to start building upon that foundation. Building upon the foundation of Christ takes work. It takes growth and maturity in the word of God and applying it to one's life. Many do not grow and build upon the foundation of Christ, but remain babes in Christ, because they do not receive proper discipleship in the word. They have no spiritually guidance in their lives. Many may not even have a Bible or church to attend. Do we really expect these babes in Christ to build correctly upon their foundation? The most important thing is to have the right foundation, then let the building begin.
Sermon on the mount - life or legalistic junk
- Thread starter PeterJens
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You are free to have your own thoughts and assumptions....
.. The Lord bless you
I believe in boasting in the Lord and what He has done by His grace through faith alone. Scripture is full of this concept.
1 Corinthians 1:30-31 (NASB)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,
[SUP]31 [/SUP] so that, just as it is written, "LET HIM WHO BOASTS, BOAST IN THE LORD."
2 Corinthians 10:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] But HE WHO BOASTS IS TO BOAST IN THE LORD.
Galatians 6:14-15 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] But may it never be that I would boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation.
.. The Lord bless youI believe in boasting in the Lord and what He has done by His grace through faith alone. Scripture is full of this concept.
1 Corinthians 1:30-31 (NASB)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,
[SUP]31 [/SUP] so that, just as it is written, "LET HIM WHO BOASTS, BOAST IN THE LORD."
2 Corinthians 10:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] But HE WHO BOASTS IS TO BOAST IN THE LORD.
Galatians 6:14-15 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] But may it never be that I would boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation.
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A
Many young Christians have a hard time believing that God loves them enough to save them completely.
There are many spiritual strongholds that war against this knowledge.
Continously proclaiming how much better your sand castle is than theirs is not helpful.
And that is how I see people and our doctrines.
We are building castles of our beliefs. Are they on the sand or upon the solid rock of Christ and His salvation?
Do we really need to tell others how to build their castles or do we need to make sure they are soliding grounded in Christ?
The second son has blinded himself to the fact, God would have accepted the first son's lopsided castle because it was built with love.
God would have shown the first son how to build a stronger more beautiful castle and then taken both of them home to the beautiful mansions He made for them.
Instead the brothers fight in the mud and yell how more righteous they are. They even call their friends to help in the battle.
What is it you REALLY fighting about?
Everyone agrees that TRUE CHRISTIANS lead by the Holy Spirit will do good works and fulfill many of the spiritual laws God lays out in the Sermon of the mount.
The only thing that is different between a mature Christian and Everyone else is the reason WHY.
Mature Christians do it because of love. They realized they are adopted Children of God and have diplomatic immunity.
New Christians aren't quite sure of their adoption status and may still have fear of being sent back to foster care.they don't understand the concept of diplomatic immunity and what it really means to be ambassadors of Christ to the world.
Unsaved are subject to all the rules and punishments with no mediator between themselves and God.
There are many spiritual strongholds that war against this knowledge.
Continously proclaiming how much better your sand castle is than theirs is not helpful.
And that is how I see people and our doctrines.
We are building castles of our beliefs. Are they on the sand or upon the solid rock of Christ and His salvation?
Do we really need to tell others how to build their castles or do we need to make sure they are soliding grounded in Christ?
The second son has blinded himself to the fact, God would have accepted the first son's lopsided castle because it was built with love.
God would have shown the first son how to build a stronger more beautiful castle and then taken both of them home to the beautiful mansions He made for them.
Instead the brothers fight in the mud and yell how more righteous they are. They even call their friends to help in the battle.
What is it you REALLY fighting about?
Everyone agrees that TRUE CHRISTIANS lead by the Holy Spirit will do good works and fulfill many of the spiritual laws God lays out in the Sermon of the mount.
The only thing that is different between a mature Christian and Everyone else is the reason WHY.
Mature Christians do it because of love. They realized they are adopted Children of God and have diplomatic immunity.
New Christians aren't quite sure of their adoption status and may still have fear of being sent back to foster care.they don't understand the concept of diplomatic immunity and what it really means to be ambassadors of Christ to the world.
Unsaved are subject to all the rules and punishments with no mediator between themselves and God.
A
Exactly.
I know God has taught me a lot through reading the Bible, prayer and fellowship and bible study with others. Yet every year I read the Bible( from front to back ) and I am humbled to see how much I still don't truly understand.
God has also taught me we are given different spiritual gifts and not everyone is moved to read the whole Bible at least once a year.
I know a lady who has the gift of love. She will smile at strangers in the store and hold a 15 minute conversation with them. Some will even pray with her after words. She is just a blessing to be around because she really listens and you can tell she loves and wants to hear what you have to say.
So not everyone is given the spiritual gift of knowledge or discernment, but all God's children are precious and beloved by Him.
I know God has taught me a lot through reading the Bible, prayer and fellowship and bible study with others. Yet every year I read the Bible( from front to back ) and I am humbled to see how much I still don't truly understand.
God has also taught me we are given different spiritual gifts and not everyone is moved to read the whole Bible at least once a year.
I know a lady who has the gift of love. She will smile at strangers in the store and hold a 15 minute conversation with them. Some will even pray with her after words. She is just a blessing to be around because she really listens and you can tell she loves and wants to hear what you have to say.
So not everyone is given the spiritual gift of knowledge or discernment, but all God's children are precious and beloved by Him.
Ariel - can we get beyond these simple points?
People culturally say "I am a good person", not what it actually means.
Now from a christian perspective, we are faced with various options to talk
about, as Jesus was with the rich young man. Now the approach was not
attack their righteousness, but challenge what their security was really based
on, and complement them on their efforts following God.
This is a vital difference in approach. Many wolves have come to devour people
in the name of just showing their weakness, while actually doing the opposite.
It is why I do not know peoples standing, I am just showing the issues that are
at stake and why compromising righteousness and walking in it is not an option.
I have seen many people stand on integrity, and honour our society because they
know it is the right thing to do, and this literally stops decay and brings systems and
businesses that work. Part of our role in society is to preserve and encourage this
very behaviour and the principles that under-pin it.
Now for the sake of speaking nicely to people and empathising you appear happy to
compromise it all away. You do have to draw a line between what is rebellion against
the Father and what is just innocent emphasis. I know where I stand, and I know this
is brutal, but what is at stake is everything.
People culturally say "I am a good person", not what it actually means.
Now from a christian perspective, we are faced with various options to talk
about, as Jesus was with the rich young man. Now the approach was not
attack their righteousness, but challenge what their security was really based
on, and complement them on their efforts following God.
This is a vital difference in approach. Many wolves have come to devour people
in the name of just showing their weakness, while actually doing the opposite.
It is why I do not know peoples standing, I am just showing the issues that are
at stake and why compromising righteousness and walking in it is not an option.
I have seen many people stand on integrity, and honour our society because they
know it is the right thing to do, and this literally stops decay and brings systems and
businesses that work. Part of our role in society is to preserve and encourage this
very behaviour and the principles that under-pin it.
Now for the sake of speaking nicely to people and empathising you appear happy to
compromise it all away. You do have to draw a line between what is rebellion against
the Father and what is just innocent emphasis. I know where I stand, and I know this
is brutal, but what is at stake is everything.
This is not a proof passage for believers losing their salvation by sinning.
In context the passage is written about Jews who still held on to the OT sacrifices and rejected the blood of Christ in the new covenant. They saw and understood the new covenant in Christ's blood but were bound so tightly to their own wisdom in the old traditions that they could not accept salvation by grace through faith.
The bible never teaches that Christ is vengeful and the vengeance of God toward men is toward those who reject His mercy and grace.
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
In context the passage is written about Jews who still held on to the OT sacrifices and rejected the blood of Christ in the new covenant. They saw and understood the new covenant in Christ's blood but were bound so tightly to their own wisdom in the old traditions that they could not accept salvation by grace through faith.
The bible never teaches that Christ is vengeful and the vengeance of God toward men is toward those who reject His mercy and grace.
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
A
The fact that you can't answer the question, shows it is not simple.
I do make a stand, you just find it too "simple" and childlike to be worth your weighty words.
Why do you say you are a good person?
The Bible has an example of someone saying the exact same thing.
Maybe one day you will learn to listen more than you speak,
I do make a stand, you just find it too "simple" and childlike to be worth your weighty words.
Why do you say you are a good person?
The Bible has an example of someone saying the exact same thing.
Maybe one day you will learn to listen more than you speak,
A
Why do you say you are a good person?
The Bible has an example of someone saying the exact same thing.
They see themselves as the tax colletor and you as the Pharisee. All you had to do was tell them you didn't think yourself better than them but no longer saw yourself as a tax collector but a washed saint cover by the blood of Christ.
Then there would not be a fight.
But instead you refuse to answer the simple question and call me naive and blind.
Maybe one day you will learn to listen more than you speak.
For now you can keep fighting and insulting each other and feel yourself justified, while breaking the very spiritual laws Jesus teaches on the Sermon on the Mount.
BLESS THOSE WHO CURSE YOU.
WALK THE EXTRA MILE.
Don't see much of either happening.
The only question is Will you turn and try and tear me apart for calling out your sinful behavior?
The Bible has an example of someone saying the exact same thing.
They see themselves as the tax colletor and you as the Pharisee. All you had to do was tell them you didn't think yourself better than them but no longer saw yourself as a tax collector but a washed saint cover by the blood of Christ.
Then there would not be a fight.
But instead you refuse to answer the simple question and call me naive and blind.
Maybe one day you will learn to listen more than you speak.
For now you can keep fighting and insulting each other and feel yourself justified, while breaking the very spiritual laws Jesus teaches on the Sermon on the Mount.
BLESS THOSE WHO CURSE YOU.
WALK THE EXTRA MILE.
Don't see much of either happening.
The only question is Will you turn and try and tear me apart for calling out your sinful behavior?
this is exactly why I bring up the Biblical definition of sin very often. one has to know what sin is in order to recognize it in one's self, and repent from it.
when one just goes with feelings and emotions to define things, one can talk themselves into thinking they do no wrong, as long as they are emotionally happy.
when one just goes with feelings and emotions to define things, one can talk themselves into thinking they do no wrong, as long as they are emotionally happy.
A
Vengeance....here is a passage on vengeance people chose to ignore.
Romans 12
17 Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.
18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.
19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.
Romans 12
17 Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.
18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.
19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.
Some of you argue God right out of the picture.....
Oh that, heavens no ! youstupid modern day pharisee, that is for the Jews...Oh that.... you false teaching legalist, that is for the gentiles back then....Oh that...sheesh you works based salvation punk, that was for the disciples.....oh and that especially, you modern day devil worshiper, the Holy Spirit ministry ended with Paul....
How about you do something very important...take your favorite Bible and just rip out all those pages out that were for others and not for today or for you perosnally and you then come back and tell us all what you have left....Please start with anything regarding the work and ministry of the Holy Spirit including gifts, tongues, etc....If you do that then you will not even have Jesus anymore, because he was the very seed of the Holy Spirit...and salvation is a gift....
And you then have the audacity to slam the mega churches and blame them for why your local small church houses are sitting empty and why you change pastors every 6 months and why nothing ever seems to go Gods way in your church and are too spiritually blind and deaf to see that God marked your country club Ichabod....
Hebrews was written to the Jews and should be applied to the modern day church movement to show them Jesus and a better way....
Last comment, if it was for the Jews and you are a pastor,. preacher or teacher you should stop teaching or preaching anything out of it....Likewise if you a re demon er deacon make sure you tell your hireling to stop as well....
Oh that, heavens no ! youstupid modern day pharisee, that is for the Jews...Oh that.... you false teaching legalist, that is for the gentiles back then....Oh that...sheesh you works based salvation punk, that was for the disciples.....oh and that especially, you modern day devil worshiper, the Holy Spirit ministry ended with Paul....
How about you do something very important...take your favorite Bible and just rip out all those pages out that were for others and not for today or for you perosnally and you then come back and tell us all what you have left....Please start with anything regarding the work and ministry of the Holy Spirit including gifts, tongues, etc....If you do that then you will not even have Jesus anymore, because he was the very seed of the Holy Spirit...and salvation is a gift....
And you then have the audacity to slam the mega churches and blame them for why your local small church houses are sitting empty and why you change pastors every 6 months and why nothing ever seems to go Gods way in your church and are too spiritually blind and deaf to see that God marked your country club Ichabod....
Hebrews was written to the Jews and should be applied to the modern day church movement to show them Jesus and a better way....
Last comment, if it was for the Jews and you are a pastor,. preacher or teacher you should stop teaching or preaching anything out of it....Likewise if you a re demon er deacon make sure you tell your hireling to stop as well....
I am not saying I am a good person, I was merely quoting the typical
self righteous individual when challenged about morality.
This demonstrates how this medium can easily miss-communicate.
Now I am not answering the question, am I a good person because that
was not the point I am making, and am focusing on what I was saying.
Let us stand back just a little. I came to cc to bring a blessing, to share the love
I have for the Lord. In simple terms various individuals set upon me. Some basic
experiences in truth, spiritual reality I was told in a round about way were demonic.
Now I know the faith attracts nutters and people do have some wakey ideas, but
to consistently face this kind of argument, is worrying. And surprisingly one group
especially thought and spoke like this, as if they had discernment and authority.
Now if they seriously are talking like this and preachers are teaching like this, anything
I share is in effect null and void. So in the very centre of the fellowship the enemy
has climbed in and is throwing out good believing people. And few are standing up and
saying, hey, wait a minute, this is ridiculous.
Jesus has taught me one blinding truth, false teachers rarely see the light, there is
normally something fundamentally wrong and the whole pond is poisoned. It has proven
true here. Those with a good heart, who go to there source and wait at the foot of
cross, come to see some obvious realities. We need the Holy Spirit, we need love and
we need to repent and deal with our sins to be able to walk aright.
Now I will have fellowship and love anyone who can walk with Christ and me in this place.
Now I call this ground zero, the foundation of Christ in our hearts, the place of the rock.
But even me saying this some will say I am leading people to hell. What they forget is conviction
of sin is the Holy Spirits work, cleansing, purifying is between them and the Lord. Now it is
they who are saying I am the false disciple, the apostate, the corrupter, not me. That means
if they are against me and what I am bringing they are against scripture and the Lord.
self righteous individual when challenged about morality.
This demonstrates how this medium can easily miss-communicate.
Now I am not answering the question, am I a good person because that
was not the point I am making, and am focusing on what I was saying.
Let us stand back just a little. I came to cc to bring a blessing, to share the love
I have for the Lord. In simple terms various individuals set upon me. Some basic
experiences in truth, spiritual reality I was told in a round about way were demonic.
Now I know the faith attracts nutters and people do have some wakey ideas, but
to consistently face this kind of argument, is worrying. And surprisingly one group
especially thought and spoke like this, as if they had discernment and authority.
Now if they seriously are talking like this and preachers are teaching like this, anything
I share is in effect null and void. So in the very centre of the fellowship the enemy
has climbed in and is throwing out good believing people. And few are standing up and
saying, hey, wait a minute, this is ridiculous.
Jesus has taught me one blinding truth, false teachers rarely see the light, there is
normally something fundamentally wrong and the whole pond is poisoned. It has proven
true here. Those with a good heart, who go to there source and wait at the foot of
cross, come to see some obvious realities. We need the Holy Spirit, we need love and
we need to repent and deal with our sins to be able to walk aright.
Now I will have fellowship and love anyone who can walk with Christ and me in this place.
Now I call this ground zero, the foundation of Christ in our hearts, the place of the rock.
But even me saying this some will say I am leading people to hell. What they forget is conviction
of sin is the Holy Spirits work, cleansing, purifying is between them and the Lord. Now it is
they who are saying I am the false disciple, the apostate, the corrupter, not me. That means
if they are against me and what I am bringing they are against scripture and the Lord.
A
The thing is Peter YOU ARE NOT JESUS.
Just because they don't like you and don't agree with you, doesn't make them evil and going against the gospel.
You say some outlandish things that are easily misunderstood. You are not alone. Many on here, including myself sometimes have a hard time expressing ourselves.
.
The issue I have is that people start thinking their words have the same power as Jesus and their beliefs are equal to the Bible. SO MUCH SO THAT THEY BELIEVE ANYONE AGAINST THEM AND THEIR WORDS ARE FIGHTING AGAUNST GOD AND THE GOSPEL.
This is just pride: "That means
if they are against me and what I am bringing they are against scripture and the Lord"
You claim you believe we should live by what Jesus teach in the sermon on the mount.
Will you truly live it or be a hypocrite?
Just because they don't like you and don't agree with you, doesn't make them evil and going against the gospel.
You say some outlandish things that are easily misunderstood. You are not alone. Many on here, including myself sometimes have a hard time expressing ourselves.
.
The issue I have is that people start thinking their words have the same power as Jesus and their beliefs are equal to the Bible. SO MUCH SO THAT THEY BELIEVE ANYONE AGAINST THEM AND THEIR WORDS ARE FIGHTING AGAUNST GOD AND THE GOSPEL.
This is just pride: "That means
if they are against me and what I am bringing they are against scripture and the Lord"
You claim you believe we should live by what Jesus teach in the sermon on the mount.
Will you truly live it or be a hypocrite?
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A
Forgiveness is more than verbal assent.
Love is more than a feel good emotion.
Agape love forgive those who don't deserve it. A love that can see the good in another person even when they attack and misrepresent and insult you.
How many people can examine their hearts and say they truly have that type of Love?
Move past the simple?
Why when people haven't even grasped the basic tenets to living a godly life?
Why when people continue to be hypocrites and pick at the specks in others eyes while ignoring the log in their own?
Sometimes I feel that children understand more what it is to be like Christ than learned degree carrying ministers, because they know how to truly forgive and love their siblings.
.kids will fight but 5 minutes later be the best of friends.
Adults with all their worldly knowledge will make nmeisis and fight for years without ever truly forgiving or loving the other person.
You know how you can tell you have unforgiveness in your heart?
You bring up their past sins and throw it in their face.
Is that how God work?
Does he throw your past sins in your face after He has forgiven you or is that coming from a different source?
When you throw others past sins in their face, is that following God or following someone else?
Are my words weak?
Am I compromising my postion and ignoring what is really important? Or is that your log you see that you think belongs to me but is really rooted in your own mind?
God wants us to love in truth and deed, not just hollow words. Honest and humble hearts, not hearts that hold onto unforgiveness and anger.
Love is more than a feel good emotion.
Agape love forgive those who don't deserve it. A love that can see the good in another person even when they attack and misrepresent and insult you.
How many people can examine their hearts and say they truly have that type of Love?
Move past the simple?
Why when people haven't even grasped the basic tenets to living a godly life?
Why when people continue to be hypocrites and pick at the specks in others eyes while ignoring the log in their own?
Sometimes I feel that children understand more what it is to be like Christ than learned degree carrying ministers, because they know how to truly forgive and love their siblings.
.kids will fight but 5 minutes later be the best of friends.
Adults with all their worldly knowledge will make nmeisis and fight for years without ever truly forgiving or loving the other person.
You know how you can tell you have unforgiveness in your heart?
You bring up their past sins and throw it in their face.
Is that how God work?
Does he throw your past sins in your face after He has forgiven you or is that coming from a different source?
When you throw others past sins in their face, is that following God or following someone else?
Are my words weak?
Am I compromising my postion and ignoring what is really important? Or is that your log you see that you think belongs to me but is really rooted in your own mind?
God wants us to love in truth and deed, not just hollow words. Honest and humble hearts, not hearts that hold onto unforgiveness and anger.
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I know this defence, but unfortunately it fails. If people deny repentance, confession and
walking righteously, they deny it all.
You talk like the only principles that can be defended are if Jesus was speaking. You forget
He is speaking through scripture, it is there infront of you but you are ignoring it.
You cannot face that some of these guys are truly deluded and driven by desires not from the
Lord and teaching that is in total error. Do you think Kenneth Copeland or Benny Hinn think
they are wrong to any degree?
As I said I cannot go with you to your compromise, and I know how spiritual things work
and what is sin for me to agree with.
Your pride argument is fine, as long as the issue is not a core issue. Repentance and dealing
with sin is ground zero and the cross. It is not pride to talk this, it is our life in Christ.
If you cannot see this, then you are part of the issue itself,
God bless you
walking righteously, they deny it all.
You talk like the only principles that can be defended are if Jesus was speaking. You forget
He is speaking through scripture, it is there infront of you but you are ignoring it.
You cannot face that some of these guys are truly deluded and driven by desires not from the
Lord and teaching that is in total error. Do you think Kenneth Copeland or Benny Hinn think
they are wrong to any degree?
As I said I cannot go with you to your compromise, and I know how spiritual things work
and what is sin for me to agree with.
Your pride argument is fine, as long as the issue is not a core issue. Repentance and dealing
with sin is ground zero and the cross. It is not pride to talk this, it is our life in Christ.
If you cannot see this, then you are part of the issue itself,
God bless you
If the enemy have just nullified all the basis of these good words, just wiped
them away, saying only what I choose to accept in my life based on my experience,
because I am ok in the Lord, no matter what conscience, the word or anyone else
says, they are impregnable.
If you cannot see this is exactly what they have done, you are blind.
them away, saying only what I choose to accept in my life based on my experience,
because I am ok in the Lord, no matter what conscience, the word or anyone else
says, they are impregnable.
If you cannot see this is exactly what they have done, you are blind.