Serpent or Satan

[Hungry]

In genesis, I can't find any reason why the serpent is considered to be Satan. Can somebody please explain why this can't in fact just be the "crafty" creature as written? Thank you for your feedback.

 

[Matthew92379]

In genesis, I can't find any reason why the serpent is considered to be Satan. Can somebody please explain why this can't in fact just be the "crafty" creature as written? Thank you for your feedback.

Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years

 

[resurrection33]

In genesis, I can't find any reason why the serpent is considered to be Satan. Can somebody please explain why this can't in fact just be the "crafty" creature as written? Thank you for your feedback.

Yes !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is an important description of a method Satan uses us to entice us to commit sin. He is very SUBTLE. You have to always be thinking clearly, because Satan will otherwise be able to talk you into committing a lot of sin:

Now the serpent was more subtle than any other wild creature that the LORD God had made. Gen 3:1a RSV

 

[Hungry]

Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years

Yeah, that seems to be the only reference that people seem to back up that the serpent in the garden was demonic. If that is metaphorical kind of like Jesus saying you brood of vipers, then what else is there to back it up. I'm still not satisfied. If the serpent that tricked Eve was Satan, why was there more evidence to it being a created earthbound creature back in the Genesis story? Why can we not take it as it is written? Keep digging.

 

[Ugly]

Its a TALKING SERPENT. You think this is commonplace? Is it more likely that a serpent was able to talk, and think well enough to outwit and tempt a human? To understand the nature of God well enough to reason with a human to go against Gods command? Or that there was something more spiritual and devious behind it?
Logic, combined with Rev 20:2 seems to make a solid case together.

 

[Hungry]

Well, in Numbers 22 a donkey spoke like a man. 2 Peter 2 refers to that. There is communication between animals. How much language do suppose there was in the beginning? There is just no suggestion that it is not a real snake. Hey, maybe all the talking snakes were horrible swimmers and didn't survive the flood. Anything is possible.

 

[WolfInOxHide]

"satan" is an accuser. (10 times or so in OT)
"ha-satan" is the accuser. (12 times or so in OT)

I can't tell you in particular where each might be used in scripture.

Serpent, snake, viper etc., are persona applied to any person, group, or idea, which acts like a snake in it's most simple traits.
A serpent is someone or something that is a "deceiver", because a snake's movement is deceptively forward, while you are distracted by the wavering movement between the "left" and the "right". A deceiver between left and right, two perspectives, good and evil.
Secondly, if it were to bite, it's bite may mean pain, sickness, or death.
Thirdly, though not applicable to Eden, scripture makes a further distinction between "viper" and "asp".
The most reputable trait of a viper is that it controls the amount of venom, and therefore the outcome based on it's state of mind and intent. They are also relatively slow.
The most reputable trait of an asp is that it is used as a tool for inflicting death in high profile death sentences and royal suicide.
If a man was killed by having his spirit crushed by a deceiver, I think it would be accurate to call that deceiver a "python", though I haven't encountered "python" in scripture.

So if you know anybody like that, they are a "snake" and this along with many other coats of skin are preserved throughout history in today's speech across many languages. The languages were confused in Babel, but the meanings of the words remain the same except where graven images have been made.

So to compare the accuser and the snake as if they are both the same in the garden of Eden, might suggest these points:
1. an accuser, satan, applies to the serpent, because he did accuse God of holding something back from Eve, and of lying about the penalty of death.
2. the accuser, haSatan, "the boogie man himself" might or might not apply, but I would think so, because he is treated like a familiar particular snake in the dialogue. But it can be equally argued that the word addresses "the idea of the deceiver" when it talks about "the serpent".
3. serpent, "deceiver", certainly applies because reportedly that serpent explicitly deceived, or beguiled Eve.

So the serpent in the garden is certainly "satan" going by the meaning of the word (an accuser) and his actions, if not "the Satan" himself.

 

[loveme1]

We are given insight throughout the Bible.




Ezekiel 28

The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying,
2Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:

3Behold, thou art wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that they can hide from thee:

4With thy wisdom and with thine understanding thou hast gotten thee riches, and hast gotten gold and silver into thy treasures:

5By thy great wisdom and by thy traffick hast thou increased thy riches, and thine heart is lifted up because of thy riches:

6Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God;

7Behold, therefore I will bring strangers upon thee, the terrible of the nations: and they shall draw their swords against the beauty of thy wisdom, and they shall defile thy brightness.

8They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of them that are slain in the midst of the seas.

9Wilt thou yet say before him that slayeth thee, I am God? but thou shalt be a man, and no God, in the hand of him that slayeth thee.

10Thou shalt die the deaths of the uncircumcised by the hand of strangers: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD.

11Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

12Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.

13Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

14Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

15Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

16By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

17Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

18Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

Isaiah 14

For the LORD will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob. 2And the people shall take them, and bring them to their place: and the house of Israel shall possess them in the land of the LORD for servants and handmaids: and they shall take them captives, whose captives they were; and they shall rule over their oppressors.
3And it shall come to pass in the day that the LORD shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve,

4That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!

5The LORD hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers.

6He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth.

7The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.

8Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.

9Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.

10All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?

11Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.

12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

15Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

16They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

remember what he offered Yahshua the Messiah to temp him:

Mattew 4

8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.

Mark 8

22And he cometh to Bethsaida; and they bring a blind man unto him, and besought him to touch him. 23And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought. 24And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking. 25After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly. 26And he sent him away to his house, saying, Neither go into the town, nor tell it to any in the town.

 

[Hungry]

I've heard it said that if you can't dazzle them with brilliance then baffle them with bull. I confess I'm a little more baffled than dazzled. It states that the serpent was more subtle or crafty than any beast of the field which the Lord had made. If I stopped there we would agree the author was referring to a natural creation. As well when God deals with the offender He claims the serpent to be more cursed than the cattle or any beast of the field. Again he groups them with other natural creatures. The curse was to eat dust all of his days. God says that serpents and man won't get along, we will step on their heads and they will bite our heels.
This does happen. If God was if fact talking to the Devil that would be an untrue statement. In all honesty more people are drawn to the lies of Satan than the promises of God. Sorry, I'm still not convinced.

 

[loveme1]

I've heard it said that if you can't dazzle them with brilliance then baffle them with bull. I confess I'm a little more baffled than dazzled. It states that the serpent was more subtle or crafty than any beast of the field which the Lord had made. If I stopped there we would agree the author was referring to a natural creation. As well when God deals with the offender He claims the serpent to be more cursed than the cattle or any beast of the field. Again he groups them with other natural creatures. The curse was to eat dust all of his days. God says that serpents and man won't get along, we will step on their heads and they will bite our heels.
This does happen. If God was if fact talking to the Devil that would be an untrue statement. In all honesty more people are drawn to the lies of Satan than the promises of God. Sorry, I'm still not convinced.

Worry not i also once believed a "snake" had beguiled Eve to eat the fruit she was not allowed to.

We have shared scripture that you may see that more is revealed throughout Scripture when you read it line upon line Old Testament into New Testament.

Do you remember the last time you had a conversation with a snake?

 

[loveme1]

Job 1

Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. 7And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. 8And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? 9Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought? 10Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land. 11But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face. 12And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.

Something to consider.

 

[Hungry]

No, I've read that the last time somebody talked to a snake all of creation was cursed. Maybe that's why God took away their ability to speak.

 

[loveme1]

No, I've read that the last time somebody talked to a snake all of creation was cursed. Maybe that's why God took away their ability to speak.

Note that the serpent was cursed to his belly to eat dust after the beguiling.

It is an account of what happened, what was the serpent before the curse?

 

[Hungry]

Now I am confused are we agreeing or disagreeing that the serpent was a serpent?

 

[loveme1]

Now I am confused are we agreeing or disagreeing that the serpent was a serpent?

If he was cursed after the beguiling to go on his belly and eat dust.

What was he before the beguiling?

 

[loveme1]

Some have posted this for you previously:

Revelation 12

And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: 2And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
3And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. 4And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

5And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. 6And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

7And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 10And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 11And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. 12Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

13And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child. 14And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. 15And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood. 16And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth. 17And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

 

[loveme1]

I shared Scripture not to confuse or dazzle you but to show you how the Truth is revealed throughout Scripture front to back...

 

[Hungry]

A serpent with legs and knack for mischief.

 

[Hungry]

I am acquainted with that reference but aside from metaphorically it doesn't put the devil in the garden.

 

[loveme1]

In genesis, I can't find any reason why the serpent is considered to be Satan. Can somebody please explain why this can't in fact just be the "crafty" creature as written? Thank you for your feedback.

The Bible is an Amazing Book the depths of it are deep indeed...

Now Yahshua the Messiah is called the Lamb of God...

John 1

29The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. 30This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me. 31And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water. 32And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him. 33And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost. 34And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

Now without any insight one could use these verses to say a Lamb came along.....