Serpent or Satan

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gotime

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2011
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#21
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
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#22
Hungry, why do you believe the serpent is different to satan?

Share with us your thoughts on the matter, then we may reason together with Scripture.
 
Nov 26, 2012
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#23
The Lamb is identified as Jesus in the sentence prior, and as a man in the sentence following. I wouldn't call it a perfect example. I have enjoyed our back and forth but it's late here. So any more responses from myself will have to wait until tomorrow or more like later today. Thanks you've all given me lots to think about.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
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#24
The Lamb is identified as Jesus in the sentence prior, and as a man in the sentence following. I wouldn't call it a perfect example. I have enjoyed our back and forth but it's late here. So any more responses from myself will have to wait until tomorrow or more like later today. Thanks you've all given me lots to think about.
perfect no, helpful i hope so.

Yes, you have to of read more of the Bible to understand the saying indeed.

The same applies with the serpent..

Good night.
 
U

Ugly

Guest
#25
Well, in Numbers 22 a donkey spoke like a man. 2 Peter 2 refers to that. There is communication between animals. How much language do suppose there was in the beginning? There is just no suggestion that it is not a real snake. Hey, maybe all the talking snakes were horrible swimmers and didn't survive the flood. Anything is possible.
That wasn't because donkeys could talk, that was God using a donkey because Balaam wasn't acknowledging any other methods God was using to communicate. Again, animal speaking as a result of a spiritual influence, not because an animal could speak like a human.

Hmm.. what makes more sense, that the serpent was Satan, or that God created one species of animal that could talk the same language as humans, and also able to manipulate and outwit Gods most amazing creation? That this animal desired to trick Eve into sin, thereby implying a sinfulness in and of itself, and none of them made it onto the ark and all died.
 

gotime

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2011
3,537
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#26
If Revelation is not clear enough what about this.

Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

God is here speaking to the serpent.

Rom 16:20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.
 
Nov 26, 2012
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#27
OK one more. If there was one reference in all of Scripture that Satan was in the garden or that the serpent in the Garden was anything but a serpent I'd move on, but every time I hear people make that reference it seems wrong. I don't claim to be a scholar but I am very familiar with Scripture. Sometimes things just stand out to me. I think that if from childhood we weren't taught that Satan in the form of a snake tricked Eve into eating the apple then it might be interpreted more literally. That was my presumption when I first started studying the Bible, then after I read Genesis 3, I didn't think it said that at all.
 
Nov 26, 2012
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#28
If Revelation is not clear enough what about this.

Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

God is here speaking to the serpent.

Rom 16:20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.
So who is the serpents seed?
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
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#29
The curse came after the beguiling of Eve.

i'm unsure of what exactly took place back then, but i believe the Bible gives us insight.

Yahshua the Messiah reveals much to us:


Matthew 13

24Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: 25But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. 26But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. 27So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? 28He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? 29But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. 30Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
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#30
Matthew 13

That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

36Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field. 37He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; 38The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; 39The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. 40As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. 41The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear
 

Lifeinchrist

Junior Member
Jul 4, 2012
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#31
I have studied the bible thoroughly, and the more you study the bible, the more obvious it becomes that the serpent/dragon is Satan.
There is not only 1 verse reffering to the dragon or the serpent in the meaning of Satan, also several in the old testament. Acctully a dragon means a great serpent. In many mythologies you will often find the serpent as a creature. In Hinduism the serpent is seen as a heavenly-cosmic power, and they worship it. The dragon or serpent mentioned in these mythologies and false religions are correctly the same dragon/serpent as mentioned in the bible. That means that there are many who worship the dragon - as the bible says, but not with his true name Satan. Many will not accept the spiritual fact that the serpent is identical to satan.
 
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psychomom

Guest
#32
It may be worth considering this...

why would a created snake (just some random animal) have such a stake in, or even wish to deceive the woman
and tempt both to disobey the Lord God?

How would an animal know the command, and why would it attempt what it did?

-ellie
 
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Matthew92379

Guest
#33
We are given insight throughout the Bible.




Ezekiel 28






Isaiah 14




remember what he offered Yahshua the Messiah to temp him:

Mattew 4



Mark 8
I do not believe that either Isaiah 14 or Ezekiel 28 are speaking of Satan.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
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#35
Ephesians 6

10Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. 11Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. 13Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. 14Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; 15And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. 17And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God
 
Nov 26, 2012
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#36
I'm not saying that the Serpent might not be Satan. My issue is that if it was why would it not be written more clearly. All we have is scattered references comparing the Devil to a hated creation. Why were Adam and Eve not surprised there was a talking animal? If the curse fell upon Satan why has he been allowed to continue to travel back and forth to Heaven? I was just hoping someone could put there finger on one Scripture that put the Devil in the Garden.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,083
190
63
#37
I'm not saying that the Serpent might not be Satan. My issue is that if it was why would it not be written more clearly. All we have is scattered references comparing the Devil to a hated creation. Why were Adam and Eve not surprised there was a talking animal? If the curse fell upon Satan why has he been allowed to continue to travel back and forth to Heaven? I was just hoping someone could put there finger on one Scripture that put the Devil in the Garden.
Something to consider:


Genesis 3

22And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: 23Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. 24So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
 
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loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
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#38
Revelation 22

22 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:


4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.

Trying to show you how the whole of the Bible is a must read.
 
Apr 6, 2012
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#39
On one occasion, Jesus was speaking with some self-righteous Jewish religious leaders who boasted that they were sons of Abraham. Yet, they had adamantly opposed the truth preached by Jesus. So Jesus said to them: “You are from your father the Devil, and you wish to do the desires of your father. That one was a manslayer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of the lie.”-John 8:44.

Jesus’ words were strong and to the point. He described the Devil as “a manslayer” and “the father of the lie.” Now, the very first recorded lies were those spoken by the serpent in Eden. Whoever spoke those lies was indeed “the father of the lie.” Moreover, those lies resulted in the death of Adam and Eve, making that ancient liar a murderer. Obviously, then, the power behind the serpent in Eden was Satan the Devil, and Jehovah was really talking to Satan in that ancient prophecy.

The Scriptural account, therefore makes it plain that it was Satan who spoke through the medium of a serpent, seducing Eve into disobedience to God’s command. In turn, Eve induced Adam to take the same rebellious course. (Genesis 3:1-7; 2 Corinthians 11:3) As a consequence of Satan’s use of the serpent, the Bible gives Satan the title “Serpent,” which came to signify “deceiver”; he also became “the Tempter” (Matthew 4:3) and a liar, “the father of the lie.” Compare Revelation 12:9; 20:2.
 
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nathan3

Guest
#40
In genesis, I can't find any reason why the serpent is considered to be Satan. Can somebody please explain why this can't in fact just be the "crafty" creature as written? Thank you for your feedback.
[size=+2] I took some time to type this out It should address your question and a little more.

How dose Satan look ?

Snake , fire breathing Dragon with great wings. Horned Devil ? The question has been asked so ; there is only one place to find answers, that is The Bible.
God's word teaches us a lot. So lets see what is said.



Keep in mind: This is to get an idea of his visual appearance and character .

There will be a list of description notes,. taken from what we cover here. at the end of this post.





Revelation 12:7-12

King James Version (KJV)

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceive the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

We are given some of Satan's names here :

-Old Serpent

-The Devil

-Satan

-Dragon

-Deceiver



So we read right here in the world of God many of Satan's names all together where now there should be no doubt. But we can search the scriptures for a better description. Ezekiel 28: is fairly known . Lets see what we can glean from there.

Here Satan is called a rock. That is what Tyrus means in the Hebrew. Lets see what we can learn from this chapter about Satan being called serpent. And his visual appearance even.

In this chapter : The prince after his fall . King would be before his fall.

I will put in "quotations" and "color" ,to put emphasis on parts that reveal clues and answers ; about his looks and character.
"

.....................................
Ezekiel 28

King James Version

28 The word of the Lord came again unto me, saying,

2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord God; Because thine heart is lifted up, ""and thou hast said, I am a God,"" I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:

3 Behold, """thou art wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that they can hide from thee:"""

4 With thy ""wisdom and with thine understanding"" thou hast gotten thee riches, and hast gotten gold and silver into thy treasures:

5 By thy great wisdom and by thy traffick hast thou increased thy riches, and thine heart is lifted up because of thy riches:

6 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; ""Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God;""

7 Behold, therefore I will bring strangers upon thee, the terrible of the nations: and they shall draw their swords against the beauty of thy wisdom, and they shall defile thy brightness.

8 They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of them that are slain in the midst of the seas.

9 Wilt thou yet say before him that slayeth thee, I am God? but thou shalt be a man, and no God, in the hand of him that slayeth thee. < Everyone is a man compared to God, even a Cherubim.

10 Thou shalt die the deaths of the uncircumcised by the hand of strangers: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord God.

11 Moreover the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,





Now, this will be before Satan's fall : Important parts in quotations "" "" and colored red . ( we also find out he was in Eden in this chapter, And will help your question and had a double witness for Revelation 12:7-12 that you read at the start .)





12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord God; "" Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.""

13 ""Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God"""; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: ""the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that " thou wast created."

14 "Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth ; and I have set thee so" : "thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire."

15 "Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created", till iniquity was found in thee.

16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

17 ""Thine heart was lifted up because of thy"" beauty"", ""thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness:"" I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.<( Rev12:7-12.)

18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. < future 2nd death.

19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more................................................................................................


Where ells is Satan written of ? This place here is a little less known. Due in part because of the Symbols used to describe what is happening.

Think of a symbol as an object lesson. Say its hard for a kid to picture numbers in their mind; for example: So how would we teach them ?
1, 2, 3. A symbol can be used in place of the numbers to teach the lesson. Much easier to picture three apples: ` O O O' ; then for a kid to understand what the figure 3, represents . So you can show this in a object lesson. That is what symbolism helps with .

Symbols can say a lot more then what is written. Symbols use less words, and say much more.
At the same time Symbolism can be used to protect some one from knowing something they shouldn't, for whatever reason. These are sthe ways symbols are used....

Satan is addressed as the Assyrian here in Ezekiel 31: . We find out that he was in Eden in this chapter as well. Just like we read in Ezekiel 28. We also see the same prideful boasting present there.

One Symbol you will see used throughout , The Heavenly Father's word is a " Tree " . Tree is often used in God's word to symbolize people.

God even compared Himself to a fir tree ( evergreen tree ) In Hosea .

( Hosea 14: 8 Ephraim shall say, What have I to do any more with idols? I have heard him, and observed him: I am like a green fir tree. From me is thy fruit found.
9 Who is wise, and he shall understand these things? prudent, and he shall know them? for the ways of the Lord are right, and the just shall walk in them: but the transgressors shall fall therein.)


Ezekiel 31:

Behold, the Assyrian was a cedar in Lebanon with fair branches, and with a shadowing shroud, and of an high stature; and his top was among the thick boughs.

4 The waters made him great, the deep set him up on high with her rivers running round about his plants, and sent her little rivers unto all the trees of the field.

5 Therefore his height was exalted above all the trees of the field, and his boughs were multiplied, and his branches became long because of the multitude of waters, when he shot forth.

6 All the fowls of heaven made their nests in his boughs, and under his branches did all the beasts of the field bring forth their young, and under his shadow dwelt all great nations.

7 Thus was he fair in his greatness, in the length of his branches: for his root was by great waters.

8 The cedars in the garden of God could not hide him: the fir trees were not like his boughs, and the chestnut trees were not like his branches; nor any tree in the garden of God was like unto him in his beauty.

9 I have made him fair by the multitude of his branches: so that all the trees of Eden, that were in the garden of God, envied him.


10 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Because thou hast lifted up thyself in height, and he hath shot up his top among the thick boughs, and his heart is lifted up in his height;

11 I have therefore delivered him into the hand of the mighty one of the heathen; he shall surely deal with him: I have driven him out for his wickedness.
.................................................................................................................................................................

Here Satan is addressed as Lucifer. That means bright morning star. Use a good concordance to see for yourself. From the other scriptures we just read, Satan wants to be God.

Its no wounder why he would copy one of Christ names here. But as we read, you see its the same M.O.



Isaiah 14:


12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:" ( God's throne )

14 " I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; "I will be like the most High."

15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
...........................................................................................................................................................



NOW; we can put all scripture notes together from the places we read from .So we can start to see a portrait of Satan. his looks and his character. Form what we have just read .

`~ And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels~'

``~And the great dragon was cast out, that"old serpent", called the Devil, and Satan, which "deceiveth the whole world": he was cast out into ""the earth~,"" and his angels were cast out with him. <( future)


Satan

...........................................................................................................notes from Ezekiel 28
- - I am a God,

-- wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that they can hide

--wisdom and understanding

--great wisdom

-- heart is lifted

--full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty .complete.

--been in Eden the garden of God

--anointed Cherub that Covers

( protected seat of Christ.) picture the winged creatures on the Ark of the Covenant , but this was his role then, before he fell )

--walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire ( that is where God's Throne is. )

--perfect

-- Covering Cherub

-- beauty

-- wisdom

--brightness

............................................................................................................... notes from Ezekiel 31:

--waters made him great ( waters you will find is symbolic of people in Revelation chapter 17. )

-- height was exalted above all the trees

- -fair in his greatness

--The cedars in the garden of God could not hide him

-- nor any tree in the garden of God was like unto him in his beauty. [ Garden of God = Eden ]

-Made him fair by the multitude of his branches: so that all the trees of Eden, that were in the garden of God, envied him < [and here Eden is even mentioned ]

- heart is lifted up in his height

................................................................................................................... notes from Isaiah 14:

- I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God

- I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.


.................................................................................................Since Dragon is mentioned in connection with Serpent as his name I will post this scripture just for more detail ..Notes from Revelation 13: future.

- I disguise with two horns like a lamb, and yet I spake as The Dragon.

- I exercise all the power of the first beast before me that I healed.

- I make great wonders, so that fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, ( The word fire here in the Greek is >

pur
pur
poor
a primary word; "fire" (literally or figuratively, specially, lightning):--fiery, fire.)



Revelation chapter 13:

11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

13 And "he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do
in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

.....................................................................


2nd Thess. Chapter 2



3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.< ( Here we see the same M.O. The same pride the same desire to take God's place and be worshiped as God )

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. ( My opinion as to the he' that has to be taken out of the way before that wicked be revealed, is Micheal In Revelation 12:7-12 )

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.




2nd Corinthians 11:

13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light......
. [/size]

[size=+1]This should clear a lot of your question up . [/size]
 
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