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I think that's one of the reasons for so much divorce today. Wives should submit to their husbands (which a lot of wives don't) and husbands should honor their wives (which a lot of husbands don't) Every marriage that I have seen where both parties submit to this idea of marriage work out awesomely.
I remember once debating with a guy who tried to argue that very thing. He even said that if a husband should order his wife to kill their children then she should submit and do so. I was completely amazed and horrified that somebody would hold that viewpoint.
And after all, God didn't let Sapphira off the hook for following her husband into sin.
And after all, God didn't let Sapphira off the hook for following her husband into sin.
I wondered how long those biblical reasons will be accepted,because present estate of human race tends to equality and those "biblical" principles are often viewed as machist, seeking men favors, instead of those beneifiting women. 
I understand that this is a delicate topic and it is not my intention to be unkind but contrary to popular belief, Paul was not teaching mutual submission in marriage in the verse above. "Submitting yourselves one to another" is a general principle of submitting to the one in authority over you (i.e. wives submit to their husbands, children to their parents, and servants to their masters). However, as per verses 22-24, wives are the ones to submit, not the other way around...
Ephesians 5:22-24
22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. <= Christ does not submit to the church but rather the church is subject to Christ. Likewise, the husband does not submit to his wife. That a Christian wife is to submit to her head (husband) does not give him the right to misuse his headship. He has an important God-given responsibility to love his wife unconditionally and be the spiritual leader of his family. He is accountable to God for how he treats his family. I think if one desires a wholesome marriage they should follow God's design instead of modern Western culture that devalues marriage.
Good post, OP (womanofchrist27).
Ephesians 5:22-24
22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. <= Christ does not submit to the church but rather the church is subject to Christ. Likewise, the husband does not submit to his wife. That a Christian wife is to submit to her head (husband) does not give him the right to misuse his headship. He has an important God-given responsibility to love his wife unconditionally and be the spiritual leader of his family. He is accountable to God for how he treats his family. I think if one desires a wholesome marriage they should follow God's design instead of modern Western culture that devalues marriage.
Good post, OP (womanofchrist27).
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S
We have such a concept in our society that submission means he can do whatever he wants and you have to take it. You submit to his leadership, and if he is following the Lord and taking care of his wife and children, the submission is not hard. A wife is a help meet, but help does not mean she does his work for him. If he is doing something against the Word of God, you do not have to submit to that.
S
I understand that this is a delicate topic and it is not my intention to be unkind but contrary to popular belief, Paul was not teaching mutual submission in marriage in the verse above. "Submitting yourselves one to another" is a general principle of submitting to the one in authority over you (i.e. wives submit to their husbands, children to their parents, and servants to their masters). However, as per verses 22-24, wives are the ones to submit, not the other way around...
Ephesians 5:22-24
22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. <= Christ does not submit to the church but rather the church is subject to Christ. Likewise, the husband does not submit to his wife. That a Christian wife is to submit to her head (husband) does not give him the right to misuse his headship. He has an important God-given responsibility to love his wife unconditionally and be the spiritual leader of his family. He is accountable to God for how he treats his family. I think if one desires a wholesome marriage they should follow God's design instead of modern Western culture that devalues marriage.
Good post, OP (womanofchrist27).
Ephesians 5:22-24
22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. <= Christ does not submit to the church but rather the church is subject to Christ. Likewise, the husband does not submit to his wife. That a Christian wife is to submit to her head (husband) does not give him the right to misuse his headship. He has an important God-given responsibility to love his wife unconditionally and be the spiritual leader of his family. He is accountable to God for how he treats his family. I think if one desires a wholesome marriage they should follow God's design instead of modern Western culture that devalues marriage.
Good post, OP (womanofchrist27).
B
Excellent Post !!! The 'equality agenda" in a marriage is nearly 50 years old and it has caused more destruction in God' institution of marriage of 6000 years. Just imagine an agenda of only 50 years old destroying God's institution in just 50 years!!! Satan must be laughing his tail off. Yes, God knows what best for us.
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B
Besides, evaluating & investigating the partner before marriage, it is equally important that they have a "meeting of minds" to discuss what one another expect from the other and hold he or she to the agenda. Too many couple stray apart from each other in the middle of a marriage, going in different directions straining the marriage. And the children suffer the most from the break up. These things should be worked out before marriage if possible. My younger sister made it clear that she wanted to pursue her modeling career during marriage, which required traveling, and her future husband agreed to it.
Reading through all of the comments, one thing seems to be clear(er?). That is that this concept stated in the OP, is not a COMMANDMENT.......yes? More like "good advice" on how to live/have a Biblical/happy marriage?
Reason I say this is because a COMMANDMENT has no leeway...........Thus Sayeth The Lord does not contain wiggle room as they say...............yet, most here who have commented seem to agree that there can arise a situation where a woman is not Biblically bound to submit to their husbands will/desires/whatever.
In light of that, I don't see how this passage of scripture can be considered a COMMANDMENT FORM GOD......
(but, now, that may just be me........)
Reason I say this is because a COMMANDMENT has no leeway...........Thus Sayeth The Lord does not contain wiggle room as they say...............yet, most here who have commented seem to agree that there can arise a situation where a woman is not Biblically bound to submit to their husbands will/desires/whatever.
In light of that, I don't see how this passage of scripture can be considered a COMMANDMENT FORM GOD......
(but, now, that may just be me........)
T
Tell that to the christian woman we counseled for over a year that suffered brutal beatings and sexual rape at the hands of her Preacher husband that took the doctrine of submission way to far.
The body of CHrist is littered with thousands of such women, who for years, endured unspeakable and ugly beatings and rape all under the hands of "Christan" husbands who were brain washed by their churches and pastors that what Paul stated will be adhered to.
One story we heard was about a former pastors wife who showed an 20 year old man in the young adult group a bible verse in a group setting and her Pastor husband allowed the 20 yr old man, his father and the associate pastor, who was also the leader of the young adult group to beat his wife for "teaching" a man!
The associate pastors wife kicked her for good measure...all were prosecuted and serving time and they should....yet their religious pride keeps them from even stating they did anything wrong.
God called you to be wise, not stupid
The body of CHrist is littered with thousands of such women, who for years, endured unspeakable and ugly beatings and rape all under the hands of "Christan" husbands who were brain washed by their churches and pastors that what Paul stated will be adhered to.
One story we heard was about a former pastors wife who showed an 20 year old man in the young adult group a bible verse in a group setting and her Pastor husband allowed the 20 yr old man, his father and the associate pastor, who was also the leader of the young adult group to beat his wife for "teaching" a man!
The associate pastors wife kicked her for good measure...all were prosecuted and serving time and they should....yet their religious pride keeps them from even stating they did anything wrong.
God called you to be wise, not stupid
T
It is not only about honor and unconditional love, this is where the church has gone off the tracks. The man has to beocme the spiritual leader. I know many men that honor and love their wives unconditionally but are not spiritual leaders and there is strife in the house continually.
Women desire their husbands to be the spiritual high priest of the home and when that happens, God put something into women, that make them without fuss or muss come under submission to their husbands...
Submission is not about being dominated and ruled over either.<<<<<AMEN to that brother!
Women desire their husbands to be the spiritual high priest of the home and when that happens, God put something into women, that make them without fuss or muss come under submission to their husbands...
Submission is not about being dominated and ruled over either.<<<<<AMEN to that brother!
T
I did not give you a bad rep, I simply brought out something...God called you to be wise and not stupid.
Staying with a man who beats you repeatedly and trusting that God is in control and will save you, is like praying to God to save you in a flood, and he sends 3 boats and you die by drowning, although you were believing God was going to save you and was in control, you get to heaven and say Gee, really God!?!?!? I died, but I prayed for you to save me...where were you!?!?!?
I sent 3 boats......
Don't get so spiritual that you are blind to Godly wisdom...
Staying with a man who beats you repeatedly and trusting that God is in control and will save you, is like praying to God to save you in a flood, and he sends 3 boats and you die by drowning, although you were believing God was going to save you and was in control, you get to heaven and say Gee, really God!?!?!? I died, but I prayed for you to save me...where were you!?!?!?
I sent 3 boats......
Don't get so spiritual that you are blind to Godly wisdom...
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M
I believe if one is always focusing on excuses and ways out based upon
~~~"what if scenarios"
Then their sights are focused on the wrong things.
...Fear...which can bring about failure...like a self fulfilled prophecy.
as opposed Faith...the substance of things hoped for...which brings success.
For instance if someone is focusing on how to prevent divorce they are more than likely focusing on the divorce aspect of marriage instead of focusing on the bond of marriage.
When it comes to that scenario this has been addressed by Christ himself.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Jesus replied,
“Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. [SUP]
9 [/SUP]I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”
A Christian's goal should always be to save the marriage. Sadly, in some cases, one or the others heart has been hardened. Christ gave "except for infidelity" as the only "exception clause."
If a divorce does occur under these conditions, I believe remarriage is possible without God considering it adultery.
When it comes to what some consider abuse we all have our own definition and have all endured some form from our bosses our parents our siblings.
Some could even go so far as to say Christ was abusive for calling people names, brood of vipers, illegitimate children and walking around with a whip.
Or to speculate for Paul to be threatening by utilizing that example in his teachings asking people if they would prefer he come to them with a whip or a gentle and loving spirit.
I'm abusive you're abusive you hurt my feelings etc etc.
Physical abuse is a different aspect altogether and can be legally dealt with by the authorities.
Of course no one wants to be in a relationship where there is physical violence, that's a given.
Yet at the same time, that is an individuals conviction.
I remember Pastor Donny Moore if anybody remembers him from back in the day,
speaking of how when he came to Christ, and it was largely through his wife.
He was acting abusive toward his wife, if I remember right he was a drinker and had hit his wife several times.
Now mind you in no way am I advocating that sort of behavior, although relating his story to this forum...
~one day she finally got fed up with Donny's actions realizing the power of God within her and that it was the enemy which had her husband bound.
He spoke of his own actions himself admitting one day he was about to hit her and she suddenly came at him rebuking him with the fury of God in her eyes backed by the holy spirit and it scared the living crap out of him more than any man ever had and brought him to his knees in tears.
As the bible says the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom and that day he learned the fear of God through a weaker vessel.
I'm sure we could tell stories of all the bad experiences people have had yet on the other side of the coin some peoples partners have been saved for sharing in and enduring the sufferings of Christ out of love for one another.
Are we building one another up by focusing on what pitfalls to watch out for thereby filling others with fear?
Is that what message Christ sent to the world? Or instead did he focus on how to be.
Wouldn't it be better and more beneficial for the body of Christ to focus on the goodness of Marriage as it mirrors Our relationship to Christ. That Gods kingdom is established upon an order of authority which goes down the line.
1. Christ being the head
2.and the church following obediently to Gods word rather than the fear of the world the enemy can input.
I guess some could say Hey God I don't wanna have to suffer for you in your name thats abusive to me for making me have to endure that, I'm out of this whole Christianity thing if that what I have to go through.
Yet we still willingly do it out of love for God, or I do anyway even if I don't get what I want or things don't go my way.
Christ has already overcome the world.
This is why he gave is spiritual armor to battle our enemy which can infiltrate into our lives even through ones own spouse.
And by spiritual discernment and knowing god one can recognize such
Let us not give way to fear of the what ifs.
~What if the sky falls.
~What if Barney the purple dinosaur really is real
What if he/she beats me someday, whats my plan?
Or...
How can ones efforts be focused through the Holy spirit and with the applications of Gods word be a light unto the darkness of a fallen world.
We've already been told we would be blessed for our persecutions and enduring.
Granted nobody wants their enduring to be within an unhealthy marriage but if that's majority of what Christians focus on then again I say they are focusing on the wrong thing.
Fear of what if's rather than Faith in the goodness the Lord brings with blessings for following his will not our own.
It shouldn't just be Christian marriages which are successful since marriage isn't a religious thing.
Yet we have seen Christian marriages can be just as broken as secular.
There are enough bad examples in the world we could call upon.
Shouldn't we be able to focus more on the good examples of a thing.
And how to be one in order to provide the world with a good example of what marriage should be.
By the way Shrimp...I personally thank you for being a good and Godly example to other women on this board and your husband is very blessed to be with someone who has the character, strength and faith of being a Godly wife
~~~"what if scenarios"
Then their sights are focused on the wrong things.
...Fear...which can bring about failure...like a self fulfilled prophecy.
as opposed Faith...the substance of things hoped for...which brings success.
For instance if someone is focusing on how to prevent divorce they are more than likely focusing on the divorce aspect of marriage instead of focusing on the bond of marriage.
When it comes to that scenario this has been addressed by Christ himself.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Jesus replied,
“Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. [SUP]
9 [/SUP]I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”
A Christian's goal should always be to save the marriage. Sadly, in some cases, one or the others heart has been hardened. Christ gave "except for infidelity" as the only "exception clause."
If a divorce does occur under these conditions, I believe remarriage is possible without God considering it adultery.
When it comes to what some consider abuse we all have our own definition and have all endured some form from our bosses our parents our siblings.
Some could even go so far as to say Christ was abusive for calling people names, brood of vipers, illegitimate children and walking around with a whip.
Or to speculate for Paul to be threatening by utilizing that example in his teachings asking people if they would prefer he come to them with a whip or a gentle and loving spirit.
I'm abusive you're abusive you hurt my feelings etc etc.
Physical abuse is a different aspect altogether and can be legally dealt with by the authorities.
Of course no one wants to be in a relationship where there is physical violence, that's a given.
Yet at the same time, that is an individuals conviction.
I remember Pastor Donny Moore if anybody remembers him from back in the day,
speaking of how when he came to Christ, and it was largely through his wife.
He was acting abusive toward his wife, if I remember right he was a drinker and had hit his wife several times.
Now mind you in no way am I advocating that sort of behavior, although relating his story to this forum...
~one day she finally got fed up with Donny's actions realizing the power of God within her and that it was the enemy which had her husband bound.
He spoke of his own actions himself admitting one day he was about to hit her and she suddenly came at him rebuking him with the fury of God in her eyes backed by the holy spirit and it scared the living crap out of him more than any man ever had and brought him to his knees in tears.
As the bible says the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom and that day he learned the fear of God through a weaker vessel.
I'm sure we could tell stories of all the bad experiences people have had yet on the other side of the coin some peoples partners have been saved for sharing in and enduring the sufferings of Christ out of love for one another.
Are we building one another up by focusing on what pitfalls to watch out for thereby filling others with fear?
Is that what message Christ sent to the world? Or instead did he focus on how to be.
Wouldn't it be better and more beneficial for the body of Christ to focus on the goodness of Marriage as it mirrors Our relationship to Christ. That Gods kingdom is established upon an order of authority which goes down the line.
1. Christ being the head
2.and the church following obediently to Gods word rather than the fear of the world the enemy can input.
I guess some could say Hey God I don't wanna have to suffer for you in your name thats abusive to me for making me have to endure that, I'm out of this whole Christianity thing if that what I have to go through.
Yet we still willingly do it out of love for God, or I do anyway even if I don't get what I want or things don't go my way.
Christ has already overcome the world.
This is why he gave is spiritual armor to battle our enemy which can infiltrate into our lives even through ones own spouse.
And by spiritual discernment and knowing god one can recognize such
Let us not give way to fear of the what ifs.
~What if the sky falls.
~What if Barney the purple dinosaur really is real
What if he/she beats me someday, whats my plan?
Or...
How can ones efforts be focused through the Holy spirit and with the applications of Gods word be a light unto the darkness of a fallen world.
We've already been told we would be blessed for our persecutions and enduring.
Granted nobody wants their enduring to be within an unhealthy marriage but if that's majority of what Christians focus on then again I say they are focusing on the wrong thing.
Fear of what if's rather than Faith in the goodness the Lord brings with blessings for following his will not our own.
It shouldn't just be Christian marriages which are successful since marriage isn't a religious thing.
Yet we have seen Christian marriages can be just as broken as secular.
There are enough bad examples in the world we could call upon.
Shouldn't we be able to focus more on the good examples of a thing.
And how to be one in order to provide the world with a good example of what marriage should be.
By the way Shrimp...I personally thank you for being a good and Godly example to other women on this board and your husband is very blessed to be with someone who has the character, strength and faith of being a Godly wife
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