Simple Question...No Simple Answer
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This is a very judgmental philosophy. How can you know what works God is producing in a believers heart? Can you see into the heart of another person? Where do you come off binding burdens on others? Who are you go about condemning or excusing all you encounter?
Scripture is not to bludgeon one another over the head. Scripture is a precision instrument of God. Scripture divides asunder the very thoughts and intents of the heart. Only the Holy Spirit can wield the two-edged sword of scripture to rightly divide truth in a mans heart.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Scripture is not to bludgeon one another over the head. Scripture is a precision instrument of God. Scripture divides asunder the very thoughts and intents of the heart. Only the Holy Spirit can wield the two-edged sword of scripture to rightly divide truth in a mans heart.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
I condemn no one....the same word that brings life also brings condemnation ...
[SUP]18 [/SUP]He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
it is clear you have no understanding of scripture.....faith comes by hearing...everyone who hears the word God gives faith...
this is a lie....the scripture is talking about faith....if a man has faith but no works ..it is dead faith... it does not say he has no faith....are you saying God gave them no faith?
Romans 10:17
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
this is a lie....the scripture is talking about faith....if a man has faith but no works ..it is dead faith... it does not say he has no faith....are you saying God gave them no faith?
Romans 10:17
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
E
To tell the truth newbirth is right because of Eph 2:10 "For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do."
If we are truly saved by grace through faith then the "good works which God prepared" will be done whether we believe "by faith alone or by works". If we end up not doing any "good works" were we truly saved? I think not.
I have argued this with newbirth quite a bit on this and he posted something on another forum which made me think. He posted "if we are saved by grace through faith need we take it any further". (Or something close to that).
Just think about it again. If we are truly saved by grace through faith won't we do Eph 2:10.
If we are truly saved by grace through faith then the "good works which God prepared" will be done whether we believe "by faith alone or by works". If we end up not doing any "good works" were we truly saved? I think not.
I have argued this with newbirth quite a bit on this and he posted something on another forum which made me think. He posted "if we are saved by grace through faith need we take it any further". (Or something close to that).
Just think about it again. If we are truly saved by grace through faith won't we do Eph 2:10.
It is Grace that saves....
the scripture say through FAITH.....not saving faith, or true faith, or counterfeit faith.
Romans 10:17 [Full Chapter]
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
James 2:20
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
you are saying one is saved through dead faith
the scripture say through FAITH.....not saving faith, or true faith, or counterfeit faith.
Romans 10:17 [Full Chapter]
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
James 2:20
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
you are saying one is saved through dead faith
Oh man, Seabass, will you give it a break! Those who are connected with Christ, in Christ, have a new desire now. That new desire is to be a follower of Christ. Being follower of Christ equates to doing good works, which boils down to loving others as we love ourselves and by holding others above ourselves. That said, I haven't met anybody who does this perfectly, we are still infected with a dead body or the flesh in which we do battle with daily with the help Holy Spirit within us.
It is not the work that saves us, it's the substitutionary atonement of Christ Jesus, the work is the by product of His work in us.
Please stop sowing discord and disunity among the body of Christ. There is nothing the LORD hates most then one who disrupts the fellowship of the one true God. Proverbs 6:16-19.
It is not the work that saves us, it's the substitutionary atonement of Christ Jesus, the work is the by product of His work in us.
Please stop sowing discord and disunity among the body of Christ. There is nothing the LORD hates most then one who disrupts the fellowship of the one true God. Proverbs 6:16-19.
E
You you have no understanding of faith, I have heard many a people talk, it does not mean I have faith in them because I heard them. Your right, faith does come by hearing, and hearing by the word. it does not mean everyone has heard, let alone trust (have faith) in what they are hearing.
dude, if something is dead, it is non existant, That is the meaning of the word dead.
something has to have life in order for it to do anything, If it is dead, it is useless. That is why their is no work, their faith is not real. it is dead, if it was alive it would be given the power of God, and their WOULD BE WORK..
dude, if something is dead, it is non existant, That is the meaning of the word dead.
something has to have life in order for it to do anything, If it is dead, it is useless. That is why their is no work, their faith is not real. it is dead, if it was alive it would be given the power of God, and their WOULD BE WORK..
It is James who says ...faith without works is dead ...not me I am following what James say...
and Paul....
Titus 1:16
They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
But it does not matter where you put faith before or after ....it is dead without works...
and Paul....
Titus 1:16
They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
But it does not matter where you put faith before or after ....it is dead without works...
I misspoke regarding the lepers, my mistake.
John uses "sign" to emphasize the sign-ificance of the action, rather than the marvel of Jesus' power.
"For it is by grace you have been saved through faith--and this not of yourselves, it is the gift of God--
not by works, so that no one can boast." (Eph 2:8)
The order here is grace-->faith-->salvation (which produces)-->obedience.
"Works" is used by Paul only to mean works of the law, it never means anything else.
You are altering Paul's usage of the word.
There is no work of the law performed in Ro 10:17.
John uses "sign" to emphasize the sign-ificance of the action, rather than the marvel of Jesus' power.
"For it is by grace you have been saved through faith--and this not of yourselves, it is the gift of God--
not by works, so that no one can boast." (Eph 2:8)
The order here is grace-->faith-->salvation (which produces)-->obedience.
"Works" is used by Paul only to mean works of the law, it never means anything else.
You are altering Paul's usage of the word.
There is no work of the law performed in Ro 10:17.
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So the "yes or no" answer to the simple question,
"Have you stopped robbing banks?" is the simple "No."
So how long have you been robbing banks?
Is robbing banks, as your answer indicates, the truth about you, or is it a lie?
According to the terms of the question, did a simple "Yes or No" allow for the truth of the matter?
It did not.
And the same is true of your simple "Yes or No" question.
It does not allow for the truth of the matter, and can be answered only with a lie,
just as your "no" answer indicated above.
"Have you stopped robbing banks?" is the simple "No."
So how long have you been robbing banks?
Is robbing banks, as your answer indicates, the truth about you, or is it a lie?
According to the terms of the question, did a simple "Yes or No" allow for the truth of the matter?
It did not.
And the same is true of your simple "Yes or No" question.
It does not allow for the truth of the matter, and can be answered only with a lie,
just as your "no" answer indicated above.
John 3:16
king james version(kjv)
16.) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
I don't see anything other than whosoever believes.
Hebrews 4:12
king james version(kjv)
12.)For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
king james version(kjv)
16.) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
I don't see anything other than whosoever believes.
Hebrews 4:12
king james version(kjv)
12.)For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.