Sin or law. Which one was crucified?

[just-me]

Before continuing to read the rest of this post, be convinced that Jesus made it very clear that His job He came fulfill would in no way effect any of the words that had ever been spoken by His Father. If you are not convinced of this truth, there is no sense in reading any further.

“He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.” (Not the works of His Father 1 John 3:8)

“And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;” (Colossians 2:13-16)

“Blotting out”....The law exposes our trespasses. When our sin is forgiven, the law that exacted judgment against those sins, that we once committed, have no more effect on us. The sin is gone, and the law is then seen as just and holy by those who have been forgiven. “Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.” (Romans 7:12)

Blotting =exaleipho ex-al-i'-fo to smear out, obliterate, erase tears, figuratively, pardon sin, to blot out, wipe away, or to wash in every part.

Then continuing with Colossians 2:16-18; “Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,”

It is clear that Paul was instructing the church in Colossia not to compromise with pagan practices by responding to those who practice those pagan rituals. In reality, Paul is saying; 'Don't let another person dictate to you how you need compromise with their ungodly practices during God's Holy Day celebrations.'

“Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods. But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.” (Galatians 4:8-10)

It is clear that these “weak and beggarly elements” were again being practiced as before to “service unto them which by nature are no gods” Observing pagan celebrations of “days, and months, and times, and years” which were certainly not those given by our Almighty God.

"Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap." (Galatians 6:7)

 

[mpaper345]

Sin was done away with,in that it was forgiven to people who accept the truth.Jesus came to take away the sins of the world,which means whoever accepts Christ,their sins are forgiven and no sins are applied on their record,and then they are led of the Spirit and continue on in that unforgiven state.Although we still have the capicity to sin if we deisre,if we are led of the Spirit we will act like Christ.

The Bible says if you are led of the Spirit you cannot sin,and if you are led of the Spirit you are not under the law,which means,if you are led of the Spirit you are not sinning,therefore the law cannot touch you for prosecution.If you desire to sin,and sin,you are back under the law,but if you allow the Spirit to lead you are not under the law again.

The law cannot be done away with as far as the moral laws,and laws of love,and Jesus said He did not come to destroy the law,but to fulfill it,and Paul said we do not void out the law,but we establish it.

Jesus fulfilled the law because He is sinless and did everything right in the eyes of God,so by that one man we can be saved.

Everybody has to fulfill the law,the moral laws,and laws of love,which we can do by the Spirit.

Jesus came to take away sins,not the law as far as moral laws,and laws of love,which love is the fulfilling of the law,but He did take away the physical ordinances of Israel nailing them to His cross.

 

[just-me]

Jesus came to take away sins,not the law as far as moral laws,and laws of love,which love is the fulfilling of the law,but He did take away the physical ordinances of Israel nailing them to His cross.

Your post is good in general.
Works without faith is dead. I tend to differ with you in one respect however. Whether physical or spiritual, God's laws were never tampered with by Christ. Jesus clearly said that nothing would be expelled from the law in respect to His ministry and sacrifice. Technically, if the physical aspects of the law are nailed to the cross, then also are the spiritual, for the physical are a parable of the spiritual. For instance, we need to physically obey the law of honoring our parents, loving our neighbor, and restraining ourselves from killing the innocent, these being just a few physical examples of many other physical things. Other than that, you have stated the truth in my opinion.

Concerning loving our neighbor as ourselves, these are a few of the physical things we should adhere to as believers in Christ Jesus.

Leviticus 19:11-18
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Ye shall not steal, neither deal falsely, neither lie one to another.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the Lord.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbour, neither rob him: the wages of him that is hired shall not abide with thee all night until the morning.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Thou shalt not curse the deaf, nor put a stumblingblock before the blind, but shalt fear thy God: I am the Lord.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honor the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour; I am the Lord.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the Lord.

 

[just-me]

"Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, (even is an added word) the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:” (Ephesians 2:15-16)

Abolished the enmity = 2673. katargeo kat-arg-eh'-o to be (render) entirely idle (useless), literally or figuratively:--abolish, cease, destroy, do away with the hostility that is in opposition that is oppressive (ech-thros') from a primary echtho (to hate) as an adversarial (especially Satan):--enemy, foe.

Ordinances dogma dog'-mah a law (civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical):--decree, ordinance, put into action by dogmatizo dog-mat-id'-zo the prescribed statute, to submit to, ceremonially rule:-- to be subjected to ordinances that are demanded by a religious hierarchy.

Tizo = verb = in relation to sole propriety by governing another's actions by dictation, making the individual unique and separate from others who are not under that authority.

Therefore, sin (together with man made institutions) is clearly understood as the faction that causes the enmity/division. God's holy Word abolished this division, not the Word of God.

"Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap." (Galatians 6:7)

The Word of God didn't abolish the Word of God by the Word of God who was crucified.

 

[prove-all]

-not remember where I copied this info from, but will share.


The curse of the law

Many believe the law itself is “the curse” but scripture tells us Gods law is holy, just, and good in Romans 7:12 “Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.” So what was the curse? The curse of the law came in by 2 ways, the first is shown here in Deuteronomy 27:26 “Cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them.And all the people shall say, Amen.”

The first part of this curse has to do with sin as it is written in Romans 7:10-11 “And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.” Again we see the law was ordained unto life, but the curse came when man could not keep the law because of the weakness of his flesh and sin. So who’s the bad guy here, the law, or sin? If you answered sin then you would be correct.

Now for the second part of the curse, which is swearing to the oath. It is written Galatians 3:10 “For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.”

After Moses had read the law, all the blessings and the curses, the people then bound themselves to the oath by agreeing to keep everything that was written in the law. The word oath in Hebrew can also be defined and shown as the word curse in scripture. And swearing to an oath can also be shown as binding ones soul to a curse as in Nehemiah 10:29 “They clave to their brethren, their nobles, and entered into a curse, and into an oath, to walk in God's law, which was given by Moses the servant of God, and to observe and do all the commandments of the Lord our Lord, and his judgments and his statutes;”

And in Daniel 9:11 “Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him.” And here is where the curse came in by swearing themselves to the oath in Numbers 30:2 “If a man vow a vow unto the Lord, or swear an oath to bind his soul with a bond; he shall not break his word, he shall do according to all that proceedeth out of his mouth.”

And so being unable to perform the vow to God to keep the whole law, because of the weakness of the flesh and of sin, then the curses mentioned in the law were put into effect.

Which is why Jesus said Matthew 5:33-37 “Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.”

And here again also in James 5:12 “But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation.”

And a word to the wise, if you ever have to go to court and are asked to forswear yourself to an oath, or any other vow or oath for that matter…don’t do it! Peace.

 

[prove-all]

the handwriting of requirements info
copied from somewhere I forgot, not mine.


"And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross".


First though, let's look at what the last chapter of the last book of the Bible teaches:

"Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city" (Revelation 22:14, NKJV throughout unless otherwise noted).

Since it is only "those who do His commandments...{who} have the right to enter...the city" (Revelation 22:14), the ten commandments could not be "contrary to us." Actually, it is only those who will not keep the ten commandments that are denied access. Revelation specifically shows that those who break one of at least four of the ten commandments will be outside God's city (Revelation 22:15).

So then, if the ten commandments were not "nailed to the cross," what was?
Look again at what the Bible actually says (two translations):

14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross (Colossians 2:14, NKJV)

14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.. (Colossians 2:14, NASB)

The handwriting of requirements (often also called the hand-writing of ordinances) or certificate of debt was wiped away and nailed to the stake, which some call a cross (see also What is the Origin of the Cross as a 'Christian' Symbol?).

Which requirements were wiped out?
Please understand that the expression "the handwriting of requirements" (cheirógrafon toís dógmasin) is a Greek legal expression that signifies the penalty which a lawbreaker had to pay--it does not signify the laws that are to be obeyed--only the penalty. It is only through the acceptance of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ that the penalty was wiped out ("the handwriting of requirements"). But only the penalty, not the law!

Even some Protestant commentators realize this is so.
Notice what Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible states about Colossians 2:14:

Whatever was in force against us is taken out of the way. He has obtained for us a legal discharge from the hand-writing of ordinances, which was against us (v. 14), which may be understood,

1. Of that obligation to punishment in which consists the guilt of sin. The curse of the law is the hand-writing against us, like the hand-writing on Belshazzar's wall. Cursed is every one who continues not in every thing. This was a hand-writing which was against us, and contrary to us; for it threatened our eternal ruin. This was removed when he redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us, Gal 3:13. (from Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible: New Modern Edition, Electronic Database. Copyright (c) 1991 by Hendrickson Publishers, Inc.).

In addition, let us look at the Greek term exaleipho translated as "wiped out" in Colossians 2:14:

NT:1813
exaleipho (ex-al-i'-fo); from NT:1537 and NT:218; to smear out, i.e. obliterate (erase tears, figuratively, pardon sin) (Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

In other words, exaleipho has to do with wiping out sin. This is also confirmed in Acts 3:19 where Peter also uses the term exaleipho, which is translated as "blotted out" below:

19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord.

Hence, it is sin and the related penalties that are to be blotted or wiped out. And the penalties could vary from "being unclean to the evening" (Leviticus 11:24-28) to making an offering (Leviticus 5:5-6) to being "cut off from his people" (Leviticus 7:27) to the death penalty (Exodus 31:14).

This is also confirmed elsewhere in the New Testament:

13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (Galatians 3:13).
The curse of the law is related to the penalty. And Jesus paid it.

But what about the law of God? Was the law of God to be wiped out? No:

17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill (Matthew 5:17)

While some erroneously think that Jesus, for example, did away with the Ten Commandments by how He led His life, that most certainly was not the view of the early Christians who continued to keep them

Furthermore, remember that the Bible clearly teaches that sin is lawlessness:

Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. (I John 3:4-5).

Notice that Paul wrote: Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not!
How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? (Romans 6:1-2).

Thus the New Testament makes clear that the law of God continues,
thus it was not nailed to the cross or somehow wiped out.

The Bible, however, also shows that the requirements of the Levitical priesthood (Hebrews 9:1,6-10)
sometimes called the law, which were part of the penalty of sin, were blotted out. And why?

"For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins...By that will we have
been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus once for all" (Hebrews 10:4,10).

Jesus' one sacrifice was and is sufficient--we do not have to sacrifice animals any more!

Another requirement (which is related) would be the death penalty of sin, as "the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Romans 6:23) or other specific ceremonial penalties associated with the Old Testament statutes (such as making a sin offering, being put outside the camp, or washing).

For those who wish to look them up, perhaps most of the statutes in the Old Testament are listed in the following chapters: Exodus 20-24; Leviticus 16-27; Numbers 18-19, 27-30, 35-36; and Deuteronomy 12-18." - Dr. Robert Thiel

 

[just-me]

God's law is not “the law of sin and death,” for it is God's law that shows us how “the law of sin and death” can be abolished. We can only escape "the law of sin and death" through Christ. There is no other door in which to make our escape other than by entering in thought Him.

“Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.” (Galatians 3:24-25)

 

[shotgunner]

Your post is good in general.
Works without faith is dead. I tend to differ with you in one respect however. Whether physical or spiritual, God's laws were never tampered with by Christ. Jesus clearly said that nothing would be expelled from the law in respect to His ministry and sacrifice. Technically, if the physical aspects of the law are nailed to the cross, then also are the spiritual, for the physical are a parable of the spiritual. For instance, we need to physically obey the law of honoring our parents, loving our neighbor, and restraining ourselves from killing the innocent, these being just a few physical examples of many other physical things. Other than that, you have stated the truth in my opinion.

Concerning loving our neighbor as ourselves, these are a few of the physical things we should adhere to as believers in Christ Jesus.

Leviticus 19:11-18
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Ye shall not steal, neither deal falsely, neither lie one to another.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the Lord.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbour, neither rob him: the wages of him that is hired shall not abide with thee all night until the morning.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Thou shalt not curse the deaf, nor put a stumblingblock before the blind, but shalt fear thy God: I am the Lord.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honor the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour; I am the Lord.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the Lord.

Jesus clearly said that nothing would be expelled from the law in respect to His ministry and sacrifice.

That is not what Jesus said. He said that nothing would pass away until all be fulfilled.
Matthew 5:18King James Version (KJV)[SUP]18 [/SUP]For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Jesus fulfilled the law. He is the only man that ever kept all the law perfectly, and walked without any sin. The law has been nailed to the cross along with the penalty for breaking it. That however does not mean that the law is to be despised. The law, according to Paul is good, just , and holy. It's just no longer something by which we judge our relationship with God. Our relationship is based on the covenant between the Father, and Son. We, through faith receive the very Spirit of God becoming ONE with him. We are not on the outside looking in.

Because of that indwelling Spirit we have a better guide to live by than a list of rules. The Holy Spirit will lead us in every area of our lives on a personal basis. He can advise us of things never even contained in the law. The law couldn't help you find the right wife or husband. The law couldn't advise you about career decisions. The Holy Spirit can. The problem is that we give little or no attention to his leadings and this become callous, even prideful in our own knowledge, even concerning how much we know about the Word.

 

[just-me]

Jesus clearly said that nothing would be expelled from the law in respect to His ministry and sacrifice.

That is not what Jesus said. He said that nothing would pass away until all be fulfilled.
Matthew 5:18King James Version (KJV)[SUP]18 [/SUP]For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Jesus fulfilled the law. He is the only man that ever kept all the law perfectly, and walked without any sin. The law has been nailed to the cross along with the penalty for breaking it. That however does not mean that the law is to be despised. The law, according to Paul is good, just , and holy. It's just no longer something by which we judge our relationship with God. Our relationship is based on the covenant between the Father, and Son. We, through faith receive the very Spirit of God becoming ONE with him. We are not on the outside looking in.

Because of that indwelling Spirit we have a better guide to live by than a list of rules. The Holy Spirit will lead us in every area of our lives on a personal basis. He can advise us of things never even contained in the law. The law couldn't help you find the right wife or husband. The law couldn't advise you about career decisions. The Holy Spirit can. The problem is that we give little or no attention to his leadings and this become callous, even prideful in our own knowledge, even concerning how much we know about the Word.

I find one major problem in your explanation.
As I was looking out the window, I see that neither "heaven" nor "earth" have passed away.
Fact is, they are still here. Matthew 5:18
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

There is prophecy that hasn't been fulfilled yet. Two of them (in summary) are that Jesus is coming back for His elect, and the other is that Jesus will rule with an "iron rod" for 1000 years thereafter. Guess what the "iron rod" will be?

“Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.” (Romans 7:12)

Jesus didn't kill what is holy, just and good. He fulfilled what is holy, just, and good. If the law were crucified with Christ, then Paul would have never defined its proper place in his teaching by "RIGHTLY" dividing the word of truth, plus he never would have said that he worshiped believing all things written in the law. (Acts 24:14)

"But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:"

If Paul taught against the law (which is not true) then he certainly wouldn't have worshiped by believing those things written therein. Paul was not a deceiver by opposing his own beliefs that he taught to others.

Jesus came to kill the sin, not His own Father's instructions. Every word God has ever spoken is still in effect today.

 

[shotgunner]

I find one major problem in your explanation.
As I was looking out the window, I see that neither "heaven" nor "earth" have passed away.
Fact is, they are still here. Matthew 5:18
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

There is prophecy that hasn't been fulfilled yet. Two of them (in summary) are that Jesus is coming back for His elect, and the other is that Jesus will rule with an "iron rod" for 1000 years thereafter. Guess what the "iron rod" will be?

“Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.” (Romans 7:12)

Jesus didn't kill what is holy, just and good. He fulfilled what is holy, just, and good. If the law were crucified with Christ, then Paul would have never defined its proper place in his teaching by "RIGHTLY" dividing the word of truth, plus he never would have said that he worshiped believing all things written in the law. (Acts 24:14)

"But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:"

If Paul taught against the law (which is not true) then he certainly wouldn't have worshiped by believing those things written therein. Paul was not a deceiver by opposing his own beliefs that he taught to others.

Jesus came to kill the sin, not His own Father's instructions. Every word God has ever spoken is still in effect today.

Matthew 5:18King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

This scripture doesn't say that the law won't pass away until Heaven and Earth pass away. Let me see if I can phrase it in a different way to better express what I mean. Just as heaven and earth stand, the law will, stand until all of the law is fulfilled.



You say
Jesus didn't kill what is holy, just and good. He fulfilled what is holy, just, and good. If the law were crucified with Christ, then Paul would have never defined its proper place in his teaching by "RIGHTLY" dividing the word of truth, plus he never would have said that he worshiped believing all things written in the law. (Acts 24:14)

Yes, I agree it was fulfilled, but it was also nailed to the cross. You can take that any way you want ,but it has been done away with as there is now a new covenant. I will also show you that with the next paragraph.
Colossians 2:13-14King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;



Now the new covenant, and scripture showing the law is passed away.

Hebrews 8:6-13King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

 

[Magenta]

Jesus fulfilled the requirements of the law, and for those who place their faith in Him, we are clothed in His righteousness, and not condemned under the law. All others are condemned under the law, because no jot or tittle has been removed. That is my understanding.

 

[ember]

Jesus was crucified, the law was fullfilled and sin was buried.

4So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5For when we were in the realm of the flesh,[SUP]a[/SUP] the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. 6But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code. Romans 7

 

[just-me]

Matthew 5:18King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

This scripture doesn't say that the law won't pass away until Heaven and Earth pass away. Let me see if I can phrase it in a different way to better express what I mean. Just as heaven and earth stand, the law will, stand until all of the law is fulfilled.

You say
Jesus didn't kill what is holy, just and good. He fulfilled what is holy, just, and good. If the law were crucified with Christ, then Paul would have never defined its proper place in his teaching by "RIGHTLY" dividing the word of truth, plus he never would have said that he worshiped believing all things written in the law. (Acts 24:14)

Yes, I agree it was fulfilled, but it was also nailed to the cross. You can take that any way you want ,but it has been done away with as there is now a new covenant. I will also show you that with the next paragraph.


Colossians 2:13-14King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Concerning your quoting Colossians the OP that quotes the same scripture and its explanations. Then continue with Colossians 2:16-18 concerning the "worshiping of angels" in relation to the previous 3 verses. Is Paul really addressing the law, or is he addressing pagan practices? The rhetorical question then is "Did Jesus kill pagan worship for those who believe in Him, or did He kill His Father's instructions of how to worship God in truth?

God's law is not against those that believe in Him through Christ Jesus. If the law was nailed to the cross it is dead. Paul says otherwise concerning the way he worshiped long after Christ ascended into heaven.

Paul speaks of himself..................

"But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:" (Acts 24:14)

If Paul taught against the law (which is not true) then he certainly wouldn't have worshiped by believing those things written therein. Paul was not a deceiver by opposing his own beliefs that he taught to others.

Jesus came to kill the sin, not His own Father's instructions. Every word God has ever spoken is still in effect today.

Do you have a scripture that specifically states the the law has been nailed to the cross? It was the ordnances that were against us. The question is "whose ordinances, and what was in them that were against us?" The law leads us to Christ because it illuminates sin. Light on darkness thing. Where there is no law there is no sin revealed. By God's grace He gave us the revelation of sin, causing us to see the necessity for daily salvation.

"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.(Galatians 2:20

"And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me." (Luke 9:23)

“for by the law is the knowledge of sin.” (Romans 3:20b)

“For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.” (Romans 5:13)

"I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily. (1 Corinthians 15:31)

 

[shotgunner]

I gave you scripture stating the law was nailed to the cross but you blew if off.

Here is another stating that we are no longer under the law. I suppose you will dismiss it as well.
Galatians 3:23-26King James Version (KJV)[SUP]23 [/SUP]But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

 

[just-me]

I gave you scripture stating the law was nailed to the cross but you blew if off.

Here is another stating that we are no longer under the law. I suppose you will dismiss it as well.
Galatians 3:23-26King James Version (KJV)[SUP]23 [/SUP]But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

ya. I quoted verse 24 previously. I did quote verses 23 or 25 because it should be common knowledge to Christians that real faith brings us out from underneath the condemnation of the law.
In your opinion, was sin crucified with the law, and if so, how does that work in your estimation?

 

[dcontroversal]

BOTH.....the condemnation of the law was nailed to the cross and Christ bore the sins of humanity upon the tree.....the only sin that is not forgivable is unbelief...the Pharisees attributing the work of Jesus to the power of the devil instead of the H.S. is a permanent state of unbelief....and one who does not believe cannot be forgiven!

 

[shotgunner]

ya. I quoted verse 24 previously. I did quote verses 23 or 25 because it should be common knowledge to Christians that real faith brings us out from underneath the condemnation of the law.
In your opinion, was sin crucified with the law, and if so, how does that work in your estimation?

I would say yes, sin was crucified. He became sin for us, so that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him. There is also the type and shadow of Moses lifting up the brazen serpent in the wilderness, which represented Jesus on the cross.

That doesn't however mean that there is no longer any sin. It only means that in Christ sin has been punished, or we could say in a different way, Christ suffered the punishment of all sinners.

What it boils down to is that a Christian is free from the punishment for sin. That however is not freedom to sin but freedom from sin. A Christian has replaced the Lordship of sin with the lordship of Christ, to no longer serve sin. It is impossible for a Christian to, from the heart, continue to sustain the same relationship to sin that they had when lost. There has been a heart change to not want to sin.

 

[A_Friend_In_Christ]

Sin still exists and Jesus never came to abolish the law. He was the fulfillment of the law. He was the living law, amen.

Matthew 5:17

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."

 

[A_Friend_In_Christ]

Sin still exists and Jesus never came to abolish the law. He was the fulfillment of the law. He was the living law, amen.

Matthew 5:17

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."

Here is another version of the same scripture:

"Don't misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to accomplish their purpose."

It looks very clear to me. Why do people always want to change the meaning to say there are no longer any rules to follow?

I can't understand it? Do you?

 

[just-me]

I would say yes, sin was crucified. He became sin for us, so that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him. There is also the type and shadow of Moses lifting up the brazen serpent in the wilderness, which represented Jesus on the cross.

That doesn't however mean that there is no longer any sin. It only means that in Christ sin has been punished, or we could say in a different way, Christ suffered the punishment of all sinners.

What it boils down to is that a Christian is free from the punishment for sin. That however is not freedom to sin but freedom from sin. A Christian has replaced the Lordship of sin with the lordship of Christ, to no longer serve sin. It is impossible for a Christian to, from the heart, continue to sustain the same relationship to sin that they had when lost. There has been a heart change to not want to sin.

I agree with you on this.

One more question, in respect to what you have said that the law was crucified with Christ. I take that to mean the law has been rendered as dead, has been made void and abolished. As you know, I have presented scripture to refute that, because I believe it as not correct doctrine. Here is my question then.

Now in your opinion (as to what I just explained above), is it heresy to worship God by respecting and believing all things that are written in the law given to Israel through Moses? ........................ Heresy meaning a belief contrary to orthodox religious (especially Christian) doctrine.