Sinless Perfectionism

[MarcR]

Jason, you can believe anything you want about me are what I share here on CC. I do not believe in living in sin at all. You attribute and impute that to me and others because of a problem you have with sin and what Christ has done to it. When Christ WAS shedding his blood on the cross, was that for all your sins or just the ones you committed before you were saved? Can you see how misleading that can be?

To believe that all future sins were not paid for is wrong. To believe that when we trust Christ for the forgiveness of sin, that would mean all sin and not just some. If we sin after we believe, our sin is already buried and we acknowledge what we have done because of conviction. We then put it off and go on by faith. We do not need to be sorry for what we have done, just acknowledge it.

If future sins are not covered, how could anyone in our time be saved?

John the Baptizer said: "Behold the Lamb of God which taketh away the sin (singular) of the world."

Jesus died for the entire body of sin NOT individual sins!

This must include ALL SIN: PRESENT PAST AND FUTURE; or nobody in our time could be saved!

It is no longer their sin (which has been paid for) that separates unbelievers from God; but failure to accept Jesus' Lordship (ownership) and his provision for our sin(s).

Jesus paid the penalty for ALL SIN, but that payment must be accepted ON HIS TERMS in order for ANYONE to benefit from it.

 

[Grandpa]

if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:13

Paul did not say could you walk perfectly or not, he said you cannot conquer sin by obedience to the law, because that just raises rebellion and focus on the wrong things, only by walking in the Spirit.

Walking in the Spirit is about walking in love, joy, peace, patience, self control. It is about seeing things in their right perspective. The fruit is how you are as a person, in actions, in approach. Your doctrine or ideas about God should reflect the very nature of Jesus.

Now all you know is how you are doing today, not how you will do in the future. If you continue in the Spirit you will find life, if not you will find death. In all honesty how the Lord will judge us is up to Him, but if we walk away, there is little hope we really knew Him. But we are not in club which gets us into heaven, we believe in love and righteousness and desire people come into the Kingdom.

Like with all things in life, you have to work at it to become an expert, invest in the kingdom. It strikes me many are not actually interested in finding out truth about themselves or the Lord but rather just hold on to their own positions.

In order to enter the Kingdom you have to be honest to yourself and to the Lord. Walk in the Light. It sucks, at first, because you are a lot more sinful and much dumber than you originally thought you were. That's not really good news for anyone.

What is good news, is that despite how messed up we are the Lord Jesus comes to us in our infirmity and helps us in all the ways needed for Salvation.

Which is why the Holy Spirit is referred to as the Comforter. Because even though we mess up sometimes We are Saved and Christ Loves Us.

I saw this while I was reading Romans 8.

Romans 8:26-27
[SUP]26 [/SUP]Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

 

[MarcR]

This is the ultimate Jesus Christ truth.

The Sin issue was dealt completely by Jesus Christ. It is why, if I wanted to, sin like the devil and still be saved.

Thats how big he is bud.

and get this.......He even paid the price for every unbeliever.

Study up, because if you have never truly believed on Christ alone and trusted in Christ alone......your going to The LoF because of your self righteousness and the human good(evil) deeds that you did in the flesh, because all your sins are paid for.

Rev 20:13~~New American Standard Bible
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds......Ergon,......human good deeds(evil). For the unbeliever that never trusted in Christ alone and acted the the part and counted on their good deeds to get to heaven. These deeds put them in the LoF. For the unbeliever who never gave a rip, he gets to plead his case that he was good enough.

The LoF will have more religious people in it than the scum bags that the religious crowd thought they were better than.

It is why, if I wanted to, sin like the devil and still be saved.

I don't think so. Realizing that Jesus had to pay then for what we do now; NOBODY who accepts Jesus' Lordship (ownership) will, through the indwelling Holy Spirit, rub Jesus nose in the sin He died to save us from. I believe that if a true believer lived that way, with no regard for his witness, the LORD would call him/her home early and painfully. Look at Ananias and Sapphira.

 

[jahsoul]

your wrong and right at the same time.

your wrong in that romans 7 is pre salvation. your right as in they need to go together.

Romans 7 tells us our problem as a christian (the war within) there was never a war before a person came to Christ so it could not be pre-salvation. You all can claim it till your blue in the face. but it does not fit.

Romans 8 tells us how to OVERCOME the problem!

Actually Romans 7 is life under the law. Paul stated that the law showed him what sin was but now knowing sin, he was tempted to do it. What Paul was doing in Romans 7 was explaining the weakness of the law which he stated was fulfilled in Romans 8.

 

[jahsoul]

It is why, if I wanted to, sin like the devil and still be saved.

I don't think so. Realizing that Jesus had to pay then for what we do now; NOBODY who accepts Jesus' Lordship (ownership) will, through the indwelling Holy Spirit, rub Jesus nose in the sin He died to save us from. I believe that if a true believer lived that way, with no regard for his witness, the LORD would call him/her home early and painfully. Look at Ananias and Sapphira.

I noticed that comment a few minutes ago. Truth is, we told all through scripture to turn from sin and Romans 6 is a great example of the mindset that we should have.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Actually Romans 7 is life under the law. Paul stated that the law showed him what sin was but now knowing sin, he was tempted to do it. What Paul was doing in Romans 7 was explaining the weakness of the law which he stated was fulfilled in Romans 8.

He still was not talking about his pre-conversion state, it does not fit. And he was not just talking about the law.

 

[PeterJens]

He still was not talking about his pre-conversion state, it does not fit. And he was not just talking about the law.

I agree Paul is talking about living in the flesh ie under the law, and living under the spirit.
His analogy is with marriage, if you have a partner who has died you are then free. So we have died to the law through Jesus and can live in the spirit and overcome the flesh.

 

[jahsoul]

He still was not talking about his pre-conversion state, it does not fit. And he was not just talking about the law.

In Romans 7, Paul was just talking about living under the law; the end. When you read Romans 7, Paul is showing you why righteousness could never be gained through the law. The law was good but all the law did was show what was sin, and because I'm not walking according to the Spirit, when I see what the law tells me what I shouldn't do, something in me wants to do it.

I don't know what we mean when referring to it doesn't fit but that is the basis of Romans 7. Not about the struggle of one who walks according to the Spirit but one who is under the law and not walking according to the Spirit. I

 

[jahsoul]

I agree Paul is talking about living in the flesh ie under the law, and living under the spirit.
His analogy is with marriage, if you have a partner who has died you are then free. So we have died to the law through Jesus and can live in the spirit and overcome the flesh.

Which is what Romans 8 is about.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

In Romans 7, Paul was just talking about living under the law; the end. When you read Romans 7, Paul is showing you why righteousness could never be gained through the law. The law was good but all the law did was show what was sin, and because I'm not walking according to the Spirit, when I see what the law tells me what I shouldn't do, something in me wants to do it.

I don't know what we mean when referring to it doesn't fit but that is the basis of Romans 7. Not about the struggle of one who walks according to the Spirit but one who is under the law and not walking according to the Spirit. I

Not sure what your trying to argue, I am discussing Romans 7 in response to those who claim paul spoke of his pre-conversion state.

 

[Joshua_Generation]

yep. which means if you are sinless, you have earned it. so you do not need grace. you have gone beyond the point of needing grace.

Look up the Greek word Charis here and stop painting me as sinless, I never stated that I was.

 

[Joshua_Generation]

He still was not talking about his pre-conversion state, it does not fit. And he was not just talking about the law.

Yes he was. The fact you do not get this is evident in the fact you have no clear understanding off God's GRACE[unmerited favor, & ability]

 

[Gr8grace]

If future sins are not covered, how could anyone in our time be saved?

John the Baptizer said: "Behold the Lamb of God which taketh away the sin (singular) of the world."

Jesus died for the entire body of sin NOT individual sins!

This must include ALL SIN: PRESENT PAST AND FUTURE; or nobody in our time could be saved!

It is no longer their sin (which has been paid for) that separates unbelievers from God; but failure to accept Jesus' Lordship (ownership) and his provision for our sin(s).

Jesus paid the penalty for ALL SIN, but that payment must be accepted ON HIS TERMS in order for ANYONE to benefit from it.

In reality, unbelievers do benefit from His death even if they don't believe. His death made it possible for us to even approach God and believe upon His Son. If He didn't pay for ALL sin, we couldn't come to Him and believe upon Him.

This is the unlimited atonement.Christ paid for ALL sin, so any man can "come to Him" and believe.

If sin wasn't paid for, no man could "come to Him."

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes he was. The fact you do not get this is evident in the fact you have no clear understanding off God's GRACE[unmerited favor, & ability]

No, he was not.

1. Saul rejected Christ, yet in romans 7, he said he thanked Christ
2. Saul could not have two natures waring with in him, He did not know the nature of God
3. Saul could not do any good. all he could do was evil (this is what the word of God says)
4. PAUL spoke of present tense, not past tense.

Your problem is your mind is closed, and you evidently have a problem interpreting the english language, and knowing what position a non believer is in.

As for grace (unmerited favor) Paul proved it, By showing how we still NEED GRACE. Because we STILL STRUGGLE.

Saul did not struggle with sin, Saul lived a life of sin,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Look up the Greek word Charis here and stop painting me as sinless, I never stated that I was.

then why are you preaching we should be sinless? Or have you not heard what the topic of discussion is?

Why do I need to look it up? I know what it means, I need it every day, if not for charis, I would be doomed forever, we all would.

 

[JesusIsAll]

Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

I don't know how to not see this a clear statement that Paul is referring to a body of flesh that wars against the Spirit, as a Christian, nor how we can deny this is our state, not that we are walking in sin, but of corruptible flesh, until the resurrection. Remember that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, that we have yet to put on that body of incorruption.

John 13:10 Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit...

1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Yes he was. The fact you do not get this is evident in the fact you have no clear understanding off God's GRACE[unmerited favor, & ability]

I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me [old man nature]. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man [new man, new creation]: But I see another law in my members [flesh, old man nature] warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members [flesh, old man nature]. Romans 7 This section of scripture is a perfect example of the struggle man has between his old man nature and the divine nature.

Romans 7 is describing Gal. 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other.

Our warfare is not with flesh and blood but it is spiritual . . . every believer has the old nature and the new nature once they are born again and these two battle at times. . . usually when it comes to us making decisions in our daily lives - in some instances it is very easy to walk in the Spirit but then again sometimes it is hard . . . sometimes the flesh wins out because man is weak.

 

[jahsoul]

Not sure what your trying to argue, I am discussing Romans 7 in response to those who claim paul spoke of his pre-conversion state.

I'm not arguing anything. I'm just stating that Paul is indeed speaking of his pre-conversion state because he is speaking of living life under the law.

 

[JesusIsAll]

I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me [old man nature]. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man [new man, new creation]: But I see another law in my members [flesh, old man nature] warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members [flesh, old man nature]. Romans 7 This section of scripture is a perfect example of the struggle man has between his old man nature and the divine nature.

Romans 7 is describing Gal. 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other.

Our warfare is not with flesh and blood but it is spiritual . . . every believer has the old nature and the new nature once they are born again and these two battle at times. . . usually when it comes to us making decisions in our daily lives - in some instances it is very easy to walk in the Spirit but then again sometimes it is hard . . . sometimes the flesh wins out because man is weak.

Galatians 5:17, superb! Could have used that verse in my post. Probably something warring in me, against thinking of that one. Duh!

 

[jahsoul]

Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

I don't know how to not see this a clear statement that Paul is referring to a body of flesh that wars against the Spirit, as a Christian, nor how we can deny this is our state, not that we are walking in sin, but of corruptible flesh, until the resurrection. Remember that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, that we have yet to put on that body of incorruption.

You would have to read that in context. Romans 7 & 8 (6 also IIRC) are continuous. Read Romans 7:25 and Romans 8 together and Romans 7:25 is put in proper perspective.