So if you are not under the Law, does that mean you are in lawelessness?

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Jason0047

Jason0047

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phil112 said:
Oh pulleeeezzzee...someone, anyone, everyone, let this thread die. Stop stroking jasons' ego.
Do you not understand that he is only about himself? If not so, would he not have heeded resistance? Do you people that keep feeding his ego not realize that the apostle Paul, when faced with resistance escaped to more favorable environs? Not one of Christ's disciples, not one of His followers, would force their way on you....yet jason does.
Criminy, what more do you need to know about him?
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I quote Scripture to glorify God and to feed the sheep. Yet you are saying that this is not so. Well, I disagree with you, dear sir. If this was about me or my ego, then I would be uplifting myself and what I say. For if there is any grain of truth to what you have said, then surely you will provide post #'s of what I had written whereby it confirms what you are saying. However, we both know the opposite is true. For I seek to stick to the topic of discussing the Scriptures. Most people do not prefer to do that. They would rather insult me then discuss the Bible. But they do not insult me because they hate me, they insult me because they do not like God (Who is the one living within me). For God is holy and good and folks do not like that.

Anyways, I am wishing nothing but good things to you in Christ Jesus, and I do pray that you stop in accusing the brethren and that you stop in having such a hateful spirit towards me. I love you in Christ Jesus and I surely hope you can learn to do the same one day.
 
Bowhunter2394

Bowhunter2394

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Jason0047 said:
I quote Scripture to glorify God and to feed the sheep. Yet you are saying that this is not so. Well, I disagree with you, dear sir. If this was about me or my ego, then I would be uplifting myself and what I say. For if there is any grain of truth to what you have said, then surely you will provide post #'s of what I had written whereby it confirms what you are saying. However, we both know the opposite is true. For I seek to stick to the topic of discussing the Scriptures. Most people do not prefer to do that. They would rather insult me then discuss the Bible. But they do not insult me because they hate me, they insult me because they do not like God (Who is the one living within me). For God is holy and good and folks do not like that.

Anyways, I am wishing nothing but good things to you in Christ Jesus, and I do pray that you stop in accusing the brethren and that you stop in having such a hateful spirit towards me. I love you in Christ Jesus and I surely hope you can learn to do the same one day.
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the Pharisee's and scribes they quoted the Scripture to Glorify God, but what did Jesus really say they were doing? very evident... Jason, your a 'god' unto yourself.. indeed!
 
just-me

just-me

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Jason0047 said:
So if you are not under the Law, does that mean you are in lawelessness?
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Just the opposite. If we reject the law then we are under the law. Arbitrarily speaking. If we are without a home then we are homeless. If we don't want a house we are homeless. If we don't want the law, and are without it, we are lawless. It's a minus thing of not having it because that's the way we want it. God is not a dictator.

For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; Romans 2:12

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Romans 3:23

But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Romans 3:21

The above verse may be seen as a contradiction but it isn't. It means that the righteousness of God was not fully known until the law was written, and through the law His righteousness is revealed to us.

Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Romans 3:28
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

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Bowhunter2394 said:
the Pharisee's and scribes they quoted the Scripture to Glorify God, but what did Jesus really say they were doing? very evident... Jason, your a 'god' unto yourself.. indeed!
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I do love you and Phil by the power of God (and not by my own power). If you have an issue with the verses I quoted, please deal with them and explain them rather than insulting me. Insulting me doesn't help you but it actually works against you spiritually. So please discuss the verses I brought up. For we are in a Bible discussion forum section and not an Insult discussion forum section.
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

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just-me said:
Just the opposite. If we reject the law then we are under the law. Arbitrarily speaking. If we are without a home then we are homeless. If we don't want a house we are homeless. If we don't want the law, and are without it, we are lawless. It's a minus thing of not having it because that's the way we want it. God is not a dictator.

For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; Romans 2:12

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Romans 3:23

But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Romans 3:21

The above verse may be seen as a contradiction but it isn't. It means that the righteousness of God was not fully known until the law was written, and through the law His righteousness is revealed to us.

Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Romans 3:28
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First, correct me if I am wrong, but I believe you might be confused on this issue because every time you see the word "Law" in the New Testament, you are assuming it is a reference to all Laws in general. I assure you, that is not the case. It is a reference to the Law of Moses. We know this because one can look at the context of the surrounding verses to see that this is the case. In other words, I would like for you to think of a few verses that talk about the Law in the NT and then confirm that it is talking about the Law of Moses by looking at the context.

Second, you are quoting the Righteousness of Christ. Think about that word "righteousness" for a moment. RIGHT-eousness. Doing right. That is where the word comes from. You quote the righteousness of Christ but you do not appear to agree with the RIGHT-Doing of Christ by what you have said here. Maybe you do. I don't know. But if your wrong reaction against the word "Law" here gives me the impression that you are against all form of Law. Which would be anarchy or chaos or rebelllion against God. I sure hope that is not the case. However, surely you must know that there are Laws in the New Testament, such as the Law of Christ (Galatians 6:2) and the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:2). Surely you cannot be against these Laws in the New Testament. For if you are, then that tells me you are against God and His holy standards. For where did God ever become Lawless? Does God condone (or turn a blind eye) with his His people in doing murder, rape, theft, hate, lust, idolatry in the New Testament? No, of course not. Yet, we know that doing these types of sins are connected God's laws today. For sin is transgression of the Law. Paul even says we establish the Law. How exactly do we establish the Law? By loving of course. Which are of the two greatest commandments (Which are laws). In fact, Paul even said that what he had written to us was to be considered as the Lord's Commandments. Paul said, that if any man speaks contrary to the words of Jesus and the doctrine of Godliness is proud and they know nothing? Do you believe Paul?

Third, Romans 2-3 is dealing with Justification by faith. Meaning, we are saved by God's grace and not in keeping the Law of Moses and or doing a bunch of works. Granted, while we are not saved by works in and of themselves, the fruit of the Spirit will be evident in their life if they truly have the Spirit (Like love, peace, joy, patience, etc.).
 
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just-me

just-me

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Jason0047 said:
First, correct me if I am wrong, but I believe you might be confused on this issue because every time you see the word "Law" in the New Testament, you are assuming it is a reference to all Laws in general. I assure you, that is not the case. It is a reference to the Law of Moses. We know this because one can look at the context of the surrounding verses to see that this is the case. In other words, I would like for you to think of a few verses that talk about the Law in the NT and then confirm that it is talking about the Law of Moses by looking at the context.

Second, you are quoting the Righteousness of Christ. Think about that word "righteousness" for a moment. RIGHT-eousness. Doing right. That is where the word comes from. You quote the righteousness of Christ but you do not appear to agree with the RIGHT-Doing of Christ by what you have said here. Maybe you do. I don't know. But if your wrong reaction against the word "Law" here gives me the impression that you are against all form of Law. Which would be anarchy or chaos or rebelllion against God. I sure hope that is not the case. However, surely you must know that there are Laws in the New Testament, such as the Law of Christ (Galatians 6:2) and the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:2). Surely you cannot be against these Laws in the New Testament. For if you are, then that tells me you are against God and His holy standards. For where did God ever become Lawless? Does God condone (or turn a blind eye) with his His people in doing murder, rape, theft, hate, lust, idolatry in the New Testament? No, of course not. Yet, we know that doing these types of sins are connected God's laws today. For sin is transgression of the Law. Paul even says we establish the Law. How exactly do we establish the Law? By loving of course. Which are of the two greatest commandments (Which are laws). In fact, Paul even said that what he had written to us was to be considered as the Lord's Commandments. Paul said, that if any man speaks contrary to the words of Jesus and the doctrine of Godliness is proud and they know nothing? Do you believe Paul?

Third, Romans 2-3 is dealing with Justification by faith. Meaning, we are saved by God's grace and not in keeping the Law of Moses and or doing a bunch of works. Granted, while we are not saved by works in and of themselves, the fruit of the Spirit will be evident in their life if they truly have the Spirit (Like love, peace, joy, patience, etc.).
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"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone." Matthew 23:23
 
Jason0047

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Also, Romans 3:23 is context to the fact that everybody has once sinned at some point in their life. For some true believers, this would be past past sin. For other true believers, it is stumbling in sin whereby they seek to confess and forsake it with God's help. Romans 3:23 is not saying a believer will forever be in slave to their sin. The verse does not say that. It is just saying all have sinned at one point or another in their life. See the beginning of Ephesians 2 and Colossians 3. Paul says we used to be sinners, but we are not that way anymore.
 
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Jason0047

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just-me said:
"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone." Matthew 23:23
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Not sure what you are getting at here. Please explain what you mean by the highlight of that verse. Yes, I am aware that the Pharisees ignored the weighier matters of the Law like justice, love, and mercy. How does that tie in before in what you have said, my friend?
 
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phil112

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#349
Jason0047 said:
I quote Scripture to glorify God and to feed the sheep.............
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Sure you do. Hey as long as you believe that, that's all that matters, right?
 
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phil112

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#351
Jason0047 said:
Honestly. I will pray for you.
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Honestly, satan knows scripture...more scripture than you know, And satan's understanding is greater than yours. Fella, you have met your match, and then some, in me. You are a tyro, at best, an antichrist, at worst.
When you refuse to accept knowledge, when you reject understanding, when you are arrogant to your elders, you are not in obedience.
You better wake up, realize the flowers and coffee you are smelling are a gift from God and your ignorant arrogance will profit you NOTHING in the day of judgement.
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

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phil112 said:
Honestly, satan knows scripture...more scripture than you know, And satan's understanding is greater than yours. Fella, you have met your match, and then some, in me. You are a tyro, at best, an antichrist, at worst.
When you refuse to accept knowledge, when you reject understanding, when you are arrogant to your elders, you are not in obedience.
You better wake up, realize the flowers and coffee you are smelling are a gift from God and your ignorant arrogance will profit you NOTHING in the day of judgement.
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I am hoping so much that God's love shines upon you in a great way.
I will also be praying for you a lot from now on, too.

Peace, blessings, and love be unto you this fine day.
 
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just-me

just-me

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Jason0047 said:
So if you are not under the Law, does that mean you are in lawelessness?
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just-me said:
Just the opposite. If we reject the law then we are under the law. Arbitrarily speaking. If we are without a home then we are homeless. If we don't want a house we are homeless. If we don't want the law, and are without it, we are lawless. It's a minus thing of not having it because that's the way we want it. God is not a dictator.

For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; Romans 2:12

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Romans 3:23

But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Romans 3:21

The above verse may be seen as a contradiction but it isn't. It means that the righteousness of God was not fully known until the law was written, and through the law His righteousness is revealed to us.

Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Romans 3:28
Click to expand...
just-me said:
"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone." Matthew 23:23
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Jason0047 said:
Not sure what you are getting at here. Please explain what you mean by the highlight of that verse. Yes, I am aware that the Pharisees ignored the weighier matters of the Law like justice, love, and mercy. How does that tie in before in what you have said, my friend?
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If you have questions about what Jesus said, then you need to ask Him to explain. Halfway kidding LOL:p

All I can contribute to an explanation is that by esteeming the judgment, mercy and faith that the law brings forth, and acting upon it, is not being under the law. If we only understand the law in its physical applications minus mercy, faith and judgment, we are under it, being of a carnal mind, and missing the entire concepts that are endorsed by God who is Spirit, for the law is Spiritual. Here is a verse that confirms my thoughts.

"For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be." Romans 8:6-7

We should never reject the others things in liew of the weightier things and Jesus said. Being without the law, in this respect, is being lawless. If ya don't have it, because ya don't want it, you are without it. It's our choice. Carnal minds don't want it because all they can see is what the Pharisees saw, which is only a physical application. Mercy, faith, and judgment are not physical but Spiritual.
 
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Jason0047

Jason0047

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just-me said:
If you have questions about what Jesus said, then you need to ask Him to explain. Halfway kidding LOL:p

All I can contribute to an explanation is that by esteeming the judgment, mercy and faith that the law brings forth, and acting upon it, is not being under the law. If we only understand the law in its physical applications minus mercy, faith and judgment, we are under it, being of a carnal mind, and missing the entire concepts that are endorsed by God who is Spirit, for the law is Spiritual. Here is a verse that confirms my thoughts.

"For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be." Romans 8:6-7

We should never reject the others things in liew of the weightier things and Jesus said. Being without the law, in this respect, is being lawless. If ya don't have it, because ya don't want it, you are without it. It's our choice. Carnal minds don't want it because all they can see is what the Pharisees saw, which is only a physical application. Mercy, faith, and judgment are not physical but Spiritual.
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I understand the passage just fine that the Pharisees ignored the weightier matters of the Law. They did this because they prefered their sin over God. They were carnally minded and not spiritually minded. So yes, I agree with you. I just wasn't sure what you meant by the quote of that passage in relation to what you said previously. But that's okay. It appears we agree on this topic (for the most part). For God's people cannot be lawless (or behave unrighteously) just because they are not under the Law of Moses.
 
seed_time_harvest

seed_time_harvest

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Jason0047 said:
Paul is referencing the Law of Moses and not the Law of Christ. Paul is not against all forms of Law. Paul says... shall we continue in sin because we are not under the Law (i.e. the Law of Moses)? Paul replies with God forbid. Paul even says he establishes the Law. Paul also says that what he writes should be considered as the Lord's Commandments. Commandments are Laws. Paul writes about the Law of Christ (Galatians 6:2) and the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:2). Paul writes that if you love your brother (neighbor), you fulfill the Law. Paul says if any man teaches contrary to the words of Jesus and the doctrine Godliness, they are proud and they know nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4).



The Law of Moses. Not the Law of Christ (Galatians 6:2) and not the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:2). There is still Law in the New Testament. Jesus said if you love me, keep my commandments. Grace is not a license for us to sort of serve God when we feel like it and to also hold onto sin in some way. It doesn't work like that. Jesus told men to repent; And Jesus defined repentance for us so one cannot invent their own definition for it. Jesus said the Ninevites will rise up in Judgment against this generation because they repented at the preaching of Jonah. If you were to look at Jonah chapter 3, we see the Ninevites had turned fromt their wicked ways as a part of their repentance.



Yes, we have access thru his grace by the vehicle of faith. But what does one's faith look like? Is it a mental acknowledgment alone? Is it a faith without works whereby it is a dead faith (As James says)? For the author of Hebrews says, without holiness, no man shall see the Lord. So yes, we are saved by God's grace thru faith, but are faith has got to be a true faith as described in the Bible and not a false faith.
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I thought by the op you were talking about the law given by Moses.
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

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seed_time_harvest said:
I thought by the op you were talking about the law given by Moses.
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A New Testament saint or believer today is not under the Law of Moses; But that does not mean there are no laws for them under the New Covenant, though. There is still the Law of Christ (Galatians 6:2) or the Law of the Spirit of LIfe in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:2), the Royal Law of Love (James 2:8). For Paul said that we establish the Law (Romans 3:31). Paul said that what he had written to us should be considered as the Lord's Commandments (1 Corinthians 14:37). Paul still tells us to love our neighbor, which fulfills the Law (See Romans 13:8-10).

Granted, while there are 1,050 + New Testament Commands given to us today,

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/99639-new-testament-commands.html

We are not justified by a set of rules in and of itself alone. For we are saved by His mercy and grace and by the regeneration of the Holy Ghost (TItus 3:5). Then God (Christ) lives within us and does the good work in our hearts and lives (According to His Word in the NT). Meaning, Christ saves us both in Justification and in Sanctification when we yield to Him and the good He wants to do in our lives by faith in His Word. So while we uphold the Law of Christ under the New Testament, we are not saved by law keeping in and of itself because if a believer sins, they do not get their heart right with God by going out and doing a bunch more works, etc. but they get right with God by confessing and repenting of sin.
 
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Jeff_56

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jason, while you're not right about everything (this is a compliment,btw), whether you're right or wrong at any particular time/post/thread/thought, if and when, for example, someone has tattoos they want to defend, or a divorce they were guilty of themselves and want to defend,
instead of repenting,

they'll do everything 'sideways' without saying what they're defending , and it comes out 'strange' often,
because it's not what they actually mean(if they even know themselves) or care about....

and likewise, many other similar 'distractions' occur... often without resolution....

pray always, seek yahweh always, do as he says and as he does, by grace in yahshua, halleluYAH!
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

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Jul 22, 2014
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Jeff_56 said:
jason, while you're not right about everything (this is a compliment,btw), whether you're right or wrong at any particular time/post/thread/thought, if and when, for example, someone has tattoos they want to defend, or a divorce they were guilty of themselves and want to defend,
instead of repenting,

they'll do everything 'sideways' without saying what they're defending , and it comes out 'strange' often,
because it's not what they actually mean(if they even know themselves) or care about....

and likewise, many other similar 'distractions' occur... often without resolution....

pray always, seek yahweh always, do as he says and as he does, by grace in yahshua, halleluYAH!
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Thank you for the compliment.
 
M

Michael65

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There are justifiable reason for all things except rape and child molestation. I've thought about this for a very long time.
 
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phil112

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#360
Michael65 said:
There are justifiable reason for all things except rape and child molestation. I've thought about this for a very long time.
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Criminy...why are you bringing this thread back? All it does is stoke jasons ego.
And, by the way, explain wife and child beating to me.
No sin is justifiable unless God says so. Take this with a grain of salt as I'm not hammering you necessarily, but your justification, like mine, matters not.
 
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