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C
No doubt. I can not read Abiding's posts first hand however, I can read them when he is quoted by others. I'm in total disagreement to the statement made by Rodney Howard Brown. In fact, I have no idea who he is. He sounds a lot like one of those people I described in a previous post who believe that one can be dominated by the flesh and still manifest the Holy Spirit. That is exactly the junk that I have always taken a stand against.
Many forget that I don't approve of hyper-spirituality at all and am the first to take a stand against it. However, if we are going to deal with such hypocrisy in the church, we need to understand where it comes from and rip it out by the roots. However, if you dig deep enough, often times you will find that roots can and do become intertwined beneath the surface just beyond what we can see with the naked eye.
A
Either God is wanting to do something new therefore He changes
Or if He doesnt change as so many say..then we shouldnt expect something new.
Faith and knowledge based primarily on personal or mystical experience rather than the Word. Emphasis on self-knowledge and emotional well-being or healing, rather than Biblical knowledge of God and His freedom through the cross and cleansing through His blood (already accomplished).
Illogical and feeling-based interpretations of His Word.........=gnosticism=not new.
But theres alot of talk that He does want to do something new...its not
in scripture...so you must get this info from the spiritual elite that have
this "special" info. Us old crusties cant get this info because we want to test
all things, and not be led by mere productivity. Meaning if some real happened
it must be from God.
But of coarse if we judge it by scripture we are putting God in a box
So really theres no winning here....im bound to just be a hardened hearted
fella that wont believe Gods new thing is mysticism...or sensuality.
And again there is nothing wrong with worshiping and praying together
with music....thats not the concern here. And i dont think its wrong to question.
Or if He doesnt change as so many say..then we shouldnt expect something new.
Faith and knowledge based primarily on personal or mystical experience rather than the Word. Emphasis on self-knowledge and emotional well-being or healing, rather than Biblical knowledge of God and His freedom through the cross and cleansing through His blood (already accomplished).
Illogical and feeling-based interpretations of His Word.........=gnosticism=not new.
But theres alot of talk that He does want to do something new...its not
in scripture...so you must get this info from the spiritual elite that have
this "special" info. Us old crusties cant get this info because we want to test
all things, and not be led by mere productivity. Meaning if some real happened
it must be from God.
But of coarse if we judge it by scripture we are putting God in a box
So really theres no winning here....im bound to just be a hardened hearted
fella that wont believe Gods new thing is mysticism...or sensuality.
And again there is nothing wrong with worshiping and praying together
with music....thats not the concern here. And i dont think its wrong to question.
M
Brother, please explain what you mean as I am 100% grounded in Faith in Christ. Sin no longer has dominion in our mortal body because Jesus cleansed my spirit through His Blood. The flesh will burn to a crisp at the brightness of His soon coming, my spirit as a Blood washed Christian is ETERNALLY washed other wise The Blood does not have the cleansing power God says It does.
WE OVERCOME BY THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB ALONE! IF A MAN IS TRUSTING IN ANYTHING ELSE HE WILL CERTAINLY GIVE ACCOUNT TO THE FATHER, BUT BE SURE....... JUDGEMENT BELONGS TO GOD ALONE!
T
Im not so sure on wordings like "soaking" , or even stuff that goes on in meetings. But I guess just sitting listening to the Lords heart, letting Him speak into your life, convict of anything that needs changing, forgiving anyone your holding anger towards etc....if thats what "soaking" praying is then yes, thats good. But in all things its learning to discern the spirits. If you have ever seen a good counterfeit $10 bill then there has to be an original to get a counterfeit.
C
I was agreeing with you Markatrat. My comment was directed toward the comment made by Rodney Howard Brown that appeared when you quoted Abiding. 
I'm a firm believer that if a person truly has a gift from the Holy Spirit, the fruit of the Spirit will also be clearly evident. If not, then such a gift can not be trusted.
I'm a firm believer that if a person truly has a gift from the Holy Spirit, the fruit of the Spirit will also be clearly evident. If not, then such a gift can not be trusted.
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A
My response was to this:
Originally Posted by Crossfire
However, I have seen first hand the damage that is caused by those who embrace the opposite extreme. Their hearts are so hardened to anything outside of their religious perspective that they are blinded by their own religious pride.I dont agree with the attempt to muffle those who speak out of concern for the church and the new ways that are being adopted as some of them are forbidden practices....to be told they are blinded by a religious pride is just an attempt as i see it to shut people up.
So i responded with a comment from a leader forerunner of soaking prayer
Well ole Rodney doesnt have that problem:(of religious pride, as was said)
Rodney Howard Browne states: “I’d rather be in a church where the devil and the flesh are manifesting than in a church where nothing is happening because people are too afraid to manifest anything… and if a devil manifests, don’t worry about that either. Rejoice because at least something is happening.”
Really brother, this sounds like you are advocating the synagogue of Satan. I am sure you did not mean to quote such foolish flesh.
So i gave a quote from the man who spearheaded a major push of the
soaking prayer subject of this thread. Showing the other extreme. And yes id agree with you...very satanic. So if thats true....why the attempt to muffle the talking about this subject?
Originally Posted by Crossfire
However, I have seen first hand the damage that is caused by those who embrace the opposite extreme. Their hearts are so hardened to anything outside of their religious perspective that they are blinded by their own religious pride.I dont agree with the attempt to muffle those who speak out of concern for the church and the new ways that are being adopted as some of them are forbidden practices....to be told they are blinded by a religious pride is just an attempt as i see it to shut people up.
So i responded with a comment from a leader forerunner of soaking prayer
Well ole Rodney doesnt have that problem:(of religious pride, as was said)
Rodney Howard Browne states: “I’d rather be in a church where the devil and the flesh are manifesting than in a church where nothing is happening because people are too afraid to manifest anything… and if a devil manifests, don’t worry about that either. Rejoice because at least something is happening.”
Really brother, this sounds like you are advocating the synagogue of Satan. I am sure you did not mean to quote such foolish flesh.
So i gave a quote from the man who spearheaded a major push of the
soaking prayer subject of this thread. Showing the other extreme. And yes id agree with you...very satanic. So if thats true....why the attempt to muffle the talking about this subject?
C
I was agreeing with you Markatrat. My comment was directed toward the comment made by Rodney Howard Brown that appeared when you quoted Abiding.
I'm a firm believer that if a person truly has a gift from the Holy Spirit, the fruit of the Spirit will also be clearly evident. If not, then such a gift can not be trusted.
I'm a firm believer that if a person truly has a gift from the Holy Spirit, the fruit of the Spirit will also be clearly evident. If not, then such a gift can not be trusted.
It seems to me that some real investigation needs to take place concerning this type of worship. Here are some steps I would recommend:
1. Instead of simply judging by sight, I would investigate who is the leadership behind this, and in what circles does this leader run with. I would search for this leader's name on the internet to see all the things he or she is involved in, and who they are involved with. Check and see if they have been caught teaching false doctrine. If the leader isn't pure, neither are their teachings. I would not believe anything they sponsor or are involved in.
2. I can also turn on the TV, and see if I could find them on other Christian programs. If they run with the crooks on TV, then you have your answer.
3. Anything new added to worship in the days we live in should be scrutinized automatically. IT SHOULD LINE UP WITH SCRIPTURE. If it is missing in Scripture, it needs to be avoided until it is proven. I would not trust anything I "feel" is right unless the Bible backs it.
4. Just because "everybody's doing it" doesn't mean it's right. Israel was judged by God for sins that "everybody was doing". The apostle Paul scolded the church of Corinth for sins that "everybody was doing".
1. Instead of simply judging by sight, I would investigate who is the leadership behind this, and in what circles does this leader run with. I would search for this leader's name on the internet to see all the things he or she is involved in, and who they are involved with. Check and see if they have been caught teaching false doctrine. If the leader isn't pure, neither are their teachings. I would not believe anything they sponsor or are involved in.
2. I can also turn on the TV, and see if I could find them on other Christian programs. If they run with the crooks on TV, then you have your answer.
3. Anything new added to worship in the days we live in should be scrutinized automatically. IT SHOULD LINE UP WITH SCRIPTURE. If it is missing in Scripture, it needs to be avoided until it is proven. I would not trust anything I "feel" is right unless the Bible backs it.
4. Just because "everybody's doing it" doesn't mean it's right. Israel was judged by God for sins that "everybody was doing". The apostle Paul scolded the church of Corinth for sins that "everybody was doing".
A
Hi Twofeet....i think the concern in this thread is a new wind of doctrine sorta
thing.
It is not my motive to question prayer....sitting with the Lord..or
anything like that...but i think some have felt judged by this thread
and music is great we all know that.
There is some bad stuff....the good stuff isnt being questioned.
Anyway good morning...or whatever it is over there
thing.
It is not my motive to question prayer....sitting with the Lord..or
anything like that...but i think some have felt judged by this thread
and music is great we all know that.
There is some bad stuff....the good stuff isnt being questioned.
Anyway good morning...or whatever it is over there
J
I was raised in a Calvary Chapel, saved in a CMA, and walked the majority of my walk in a Vineyard. Soaking prayer is just that. It's all encompassing prayer. Soaking is not a bad thing. Soaking is just a new term for some old disciplines. My church happens to be the church Dallas Willard attends, thus we have at times had quite a focus on the disciplines. No we don't bark, roar, or do other strange things. In fact, in the 10 yrs I've been attending, I've only seen anyone "slain in the spirit" a half dozen times. I've heard two words given in tongues which were both interpretted. But I have seen and sensed the Spirit move powerfully... And often quietly.
Soaking is a good thing.
Soaking is a good thing.
T
Hi Twofeet....i think the concern in this thread is a new wind of doctrine sorta
thing.
It is not my motive to question prayer....sitting with the Lord..or
anything like that...but i think some have felt judged by this thread
and music is great we all know that.
There is some bad stuff....the good stuff isnt being questioned.
Anyway good morning...or whatever it is over there
thing.
It is not my motive to question prayer....sitting with the Lord..or
anything like that...but i think some have felt judged by this thread
and music is great we all know that.
There is some bad stuff....the good stuff isnt being questioned.
Anyway good morning...or whatever it is over there
Well it all depends on what you call "sitting with the Lord". If it is YOU talking to God and God not talking back that is something different to what is classed as "soaking" prayer. Soaking prayer is when Gods presence is so strong you cant really say to much because it is no longer about you, its all about Him. In those times, you can feel the weight of His presence fill the room and you are in awe. In those times you can have waves of His love go through you that soaks into every part of your spirit, and it is the most amazing, deep understanding of how deep God loves you....or waves of pure joy, so much so laughter, right from your belly...like streams of living water coming from the core of your being........or an overwhelming sense of peace. In that deep and powerful presence it breaks bondage, it sets free, it can cause overwhelming tears of joy, or pain being unlocked from deep wounds in your spirit. But in it all, God stays true to every word of the Bible of who He is. The Holy Fire of God , full of love and forgiveness, joy and peace. A god thats brings freedom.
But people crawling around on all 4's barking like a dog?
I think it is pretty easy to test the spirit in these instances.
For those that have never experienced God in this way dont throw the baby out with the bath water.
M
Good Evening Abiding
Well it all depends on what you call "sitting with the Lord". If it is YOU talking to God and God not talking back that is something different to what is classed as "soaking" prayer. Soaking prayer is when Gods presence is so strong you cant really say to much because it is no longer about you, its all about Him. In those times, you can feel the weight of His presence fill the room and you are in awe. In those times you can have waves of His love go through you that soaks into every part of your spirit, and it is the most amazing, deep understanding of how deep God loves you....or waves of pure joy, so much so laughter, right from your belly...like streams of living water coming from the core of your being........or an overwhelming sense of peace. In that deep and powerful presence it breaks bondage, it sets free, it can cause overwhelming tears of joy, or pain being unlocked from deep wounds in your spirit. But in it all, God stays true to every word of the Bible of who He is. The Holy Fire of God , full of love and forgiveness, joy and peace. A god thats brings freedom.
But people crawling around on all 4's barking like a dog?
I think it is pretty easy to test the spirit in these instances.
For those that have never experienced God in this way dont throw the baby out with the bath water.
Well it all depends on what you call "sitting with the Lord". If it is YOU talking to God and God not talking back that is something different to what is classed as "soaking" prayer. Soaking prayer is when Gods presence is so strong you cant really say to much because it is no longer about you, its all about Him. In those times, you can feel the weight of His presence fill the room and you are in awe. In those times you can have waves of His love go through you that soaks into every part of your spirit, and it is the most amazing, deep understanding of how deep God loves you....or waves of pure joy, so much so laughter, right from your belly...like streams of living water coming from the core of your being........or an overwhelming sense of peace. In that deep and powerful presence it breaks bondage, it sets free, it can cause overwhelming tears of joy, or pain being unlocked from deep wounds in your spirit. But in it all, God stays true to every word of the Bible of who He is. The Holy Fire of God , full of love and forgiveness, joy and peace. A god thats brings freedom.
But people crawling around on all 4's barking like a dog?
I think it is pretty easy to test the spirit in these instances.
For those that have never experienced God in this way dont throw the baby out with the bath water.
Pray in the Spirit and with understanding.
God bless you sister
A
Good Evening Abiding
Well it all depends on what you call "sitting with the Lord". If it is YOU talking to God and God not talking back that is something different to what is classed as "soaking" prayer. Soaking prayer is when Gods presence is so strong you cant really say to much because it is no longer about you, its all about Him. In those times, you can feel the weight of His presence fill the room and you are in awe. In those times you can have waves of His love go through you that soaks into every part of your spirit, and it is the most amazing, deep understanding of how deep God loves you....or waves of pure joy, so much so laughter, right from your belly...like streams of living water coming from the core of your being........or an overwhelming sense of peace. In that deep and powerful presence it breaks bondage, it sets free, it can cause overwhelming tears of joy, or pain being unlocked from deep wounds in your spirit. But in it all, God stays true to every word of the Bible of who He is. The Holy Fire of God , full of love and forgiveness, joy and peace. A god thats brings freedom.
But people crawling around on all 4's barking like a dog?
I think it is pretty easy to test the spirit in these instances.
For those that have never experienced God in this way dont throw the baby out with the bath water.
Well it all depends on what you call "sitting with the Lord". If it is YOU talking to God and God not talking back that is something different to what is classed as "soaking" prayer. Soaking prayer is when Gods presence is so strong you cant really say to much because it is no longer about you, its all about Him. In those times, you can feel the weight of His presence fill the room and you are in awe. In those times you can have waves of His love go through you that soaks into every part of your spirit, and it is the most amazing, deep understanding of how deep God loves you....or waves of pure joy, so much so laughter, right from your belly...like streams of living water coming from the core of your being........or an overwhelming sense of peace. In that deep and powerful presence it breaks bondage, it sets free, it can cause overwhelming tears of joy, or pain being unlocked from deep wounds in your spirit. But in it all, God stays true to every word of the Bible of who He is. The Holy Fire of God , full of love and forgiveness, joy and peace. A god thats brings freedom.
But people crawling around on all 4's barking like a dog?
I think it is pretty easy to test the spirit in these instances.
For those that have never experienced God in this way dont throw the baby out with the bath water.
of prayer and closeness and the fruits it brings. If i lack this its always my neglect...which i confess
i do neglect my quiet alone time...just sitting. I do pray alot of the day...but we know thats not the same.
Im in a squeeze sometimes...to engage in pointing out bad stuff.....seems easy to step on toes
that i dont want to step on. Im actually a very liberal person when it comes to church function and
styles of praise and worship....as long as it isnt devilish. Which there most certianly is some.
Why should that be a surprise....did satan go on vacation?
off to work...hope to hear you sing soon!
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C
Hyper Spiritualism is the result of antinomianism infiltrating the Pentecostal movement resulting in a "Charismatic" movement that involves very little accountability, if any. Now this does not mean all Pentecostals are "infected". In fact, many are taking a stand against it however, it is a major problem.
This is a major reason why I left the Pentecostal church and stand firmly antinomianism. I have seen the danger of it first hand and have been more than willing to take a stand within my own circle of influence. As I research church history, I find numerous accounts of antinomianism infiltrating other doctrines and denominations and the horrendous fruit which has occurred as a result. Antinomianism has made it's presence felt in every major modern Reformed & Evangelical organization.
This is a major reason why I left the Pentecostal church and stand firmly antinomianism. I have seen the danger of it first hand and have been more than willing to take a stand within my own circle of influence. As I research church history, I find numerous accounts of antinomianism infiltrating other doctrines and denominations and the horrendous fruit which has occurred as a result. Antinomianism has made it's presence felt in every major modern Reformed & Evangelical organization.
T
Ok then good evening....yes ill agree with all you said..because ive experienced these times
of prayer and closeness and the fruits it brings. If i lack this its always my neglect...which i confess
i do neglect my quiet alone time...just sitting. I do pray alot of the day...but we know thats not the same.
Im in a squeeze sometimes...to engage in pointing out bad stuff.....seems easy to step on toes
that i dont want to step on. Im actually a very liberal person when it comes to church function and
styles of praise and worship....as long as it isnt devilish. Which there most certianly is some.
Why should that be a surprise....did satan go on vacation?
off to work...hope to hear you sing soon!
of prayer and closeness and the fruits it brings. If i lack this its always my neglect...which i confess
i do neglect my quiet alone time...just sitting. I do pray alot of the day...but we know thats not the same.
Im in a squeeze sometimes...to engage in pointing out bad stuff.....seems easy to step on toes
that i dont want to step on. Im actually a very liberal person when it comes to church function and
styles of praise and worship....as long as it isnt devilish. Which there most certianly is some.
Why should that be a surprise....did satan go on vacation?
off to work...hope to hear you sing soon!
1
In all honesty, it seems like some are coming in this thread, and they're offended that this issue is being discussed and discerned, so they try to distract from the issue at hand, by either saying..
"Other denoms/faiths have odd stuff too."
or..
"Well let's see if you're doing such and such in YOUR spiritual life."
It comes across as a rather spiritual looking avoidance technique.
To sum it up, it seems like classical obfuscation.
It's a nice little distracting dance to get people away from discussing something that ruffles their feathers.
It's not quite a red herron, but it is red herron-lite.
Still doesn't taste great.
And it sure isn't filling.
###End rant.
"Other denoms/faiths have odd stuff too."
or..
"Well let's see if you're doing such and such in YOUR spiritual life."
It comes across as a rather spiritual looking avoidance technique.
To sum it up, it seems like classical obfuscation.
It's a nice little distracting dance to get people away from discussing something that ruffles their feathers.
It's not quite a red herron, but it is red herron-lite.
Still doesn't taste great.
And it sure isn't filling.
###End rant.
Any type of worship can be wrong IF I'm looking for a physical high from a spiritual manifestation. In Pentecostal and charismatic circles, this is a common practice by many. However, it doesn't mean that the style of worship is wrong. It just means that the people doing it are wrong. Many of us don't understand that Christian television programs have producers, directors, and in some cases actors. Some Christian programs do whatever is necessary to jack up their ratings. If we don't believe this, we are gullible indeed.
Any kind of worship can be wrong IF I believe I can motivate the Spirit of God to do my bidding. Many churches have issues where their praise and worship leader takes on an attitude that they have the ability to "steer" the service wherever they please. Their pastor may instruct them before service to sing certain songs that will "steer" the service to a place of praise, or prayer. NO LEADER should do so without the leading of the Holy Spirit. Note this Scripture:
2 Peter 1:20-21 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
This Scripture sets the standard, whether it be worship or any of the spiritual gifts in operation by the church. It is the Holy Spirit that moves us, not the other way around. To be lead by the Spirit is to be moved by the Spirit. It's His direction that determines the outcome of the service. It is NOT by the will of man.
I believe this is why we have some people for this issue and others against it. Some have seen it done right, and others have seen it done wrong.
Any kind of worship can be wrong IF I believe I can motivate the Spirit of God to do my bidding. Many churches have issues where their praise and worship leader takes on an attitude that they have the ability to "steer" the service wherever they please. Their pastor may instruct them before service to sing certain songs that will "steer" the service to a place of praise, or prayer. NO LEADER should do so without the leading of the Holy Spirit. Note this Scripture:
2 Peter 1:20-21 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
This Scripture sets the standard, whether it be worship or any of the spiritual gifts in operation by the church. It is the Holy Spirit that moves us, not the other way around. To be lead by the Spirit is to be moved by the Spirit. It's His direction that determines the outcome of the service. It is NOT by the will of man.
I believe this is why we have some people for this issue and others against it. Some have seen it done right, and others have seen it done wrong.