Sound Doctrine is not popular today

[KennethC]

2 Timothy 1:12, "For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day."

Greek, Greek, Greek, always claim the Greek when the Bible goes against your beliefs. There's a huge difference in "of" and "in." Using the word "in" makes it fall on the believer. I see why you don't agree with "of". That makes it fall on Christ's faith and His work on the cross.

So, when you walked away Christ was not doing a work in your life, but now He is? One has to hit rock bottom in order to have eternal security?

Well Jesus clearly said those who abide in Him, He did not say those who abide of Him !!!

Also when I walked away I was no longer in the FAITH, I though I was but really was just deceived because I grew up hearing the false doctrine no matter how you live will effect our salvation in Christ. The original osas doctrine of Calvin..

When I was drawn back finally from hitting rock bottom that is when God opened my eyes by His Holy Spirit and showed me that I would not have been in the kingdom if I died in that lost state.

Which is why He came and drew me back to Him, I still had to make the choice to follow, and I did !!!

I can clearly associate with the lost sheep and the prodigal son parables !!!

People who have always lived comfortable lives know absolutely nothing about what one's go through who have hit rock bottom. They may think they know suffering but they don't !!!

I have known both worldly suffering and Godly suffering !!!

 

[KJV1611]

Now your just playing games here because did you know that "OF" or "IN" is not in the original Greek, therefore taking and changing in to of makes no difference.

Nowhere in the bible does it teach "Christ did it all, we do nothing." Nowhere !!!

Yes I do have eternal security right now because I abide in Christ and His teachings, when I walked away awhile back from my teens to 25 years of age I did not !!!

I do have peace because He is working in me to be better and better each day, and I know no matter what I go through now He will get me through it.

I know I will not waiver now because I already hit rock bottom and go through it thanks be to God !!!

It does not matter that Catholic's now don't believe in OSAS, the fact is that both Augustine and Calvin were both Catholic's !!!

Here's a great example of what I'm talking about. The bible doesn't fit your doctrine so you change it to say what you want it to say..... and you think you have truth?

 

[KennethC]

Not in the least. Like scripture warnings to the virgins without oil in their lamps, I draw the distinction the Bible does between the saved and the unsaved, the Philadelphia versus the Laodicean church, a huge difference that has nothing to do with denying eternal security of the born again believer. Eternal security is in the Bible, anybody saying differently is making Christ a liar. The issue is real versus fake believers, wheat versus tares. You're in a playpen of this, right now.

You also are calling for scripture. I've posted scripture proof a zillion times in the past. Here's a link below. You could Google for scripture, yourself. Why do you need to ask anybody here for the eternal security view of about all Reformed Christendom, as if the scripture doesn't exist, as if it's something new? There are very fine, Spirit-filled theologians, now and long gone, of spotless reputations, lined up around the block, over generations, all of whom taught eternal security from the scripture. This is not an obscure issue, even in the charter of many churches. I would add churches in my life where nobody has disputed this, odd it's a conflagration of constant bickering of a few people here, of one track minds to tear down this truth.

You're a Christian, and you haven't heard countless sermons or read about this matter? Do you know how to Google? Search other threads here on the topic. I think I have a blog post about it. Why am I having a hard time seeing how you say you've considered this matter, and are asking for scripture that speaks to eternal security everybody who's actually studied the issue has seen, something a simple Google would put in your face? If I'm not making sense to you, you're making less to me. Anyway, look at the scripture. Believe it, or not. I find it so strange you've decided on the matter, yet are asking for eternal security scripture, as if you've never seen it, as if nobody has it. If you weren't somebody here I'm not much aware of, the scripture has been so much published here I'd not answer some other people on this, who simply reject the truth. Again, a link, scripture proof out the wazoo.

101 Bible Reasons Proving Eternal Security
​

Where did I ever say and deny eternal security ???

Please show me where because you have made this false accusation !!!

What I said is that eternal security is not taught in the way that Augustine (A Catholic) and Calvin (Also a Catholic that started Protestant reformation) !!!

That is not denying eternal security, that is denying the false teachings of men that do not align with God's Word.

Also you are doing the same thing we mentioned before by posting your

101 Bible Reasons Proving Eternal Security
​

You do know the other side can do exactly the same thing ???

Here is proof:

200 Scriptures That Refute Eternal Security

 

[KennethC]

Here's a great example of what I'm talking about. The bible doesn't fit your doctrine so you change it to say what you want it to say..... and you think you have truth?

Go back and read the original Greek and you will find of and in is not there !!!

 

[KJV1611]

Go back and read the original Greek and you will find of and in is not there !!!

I have no use for Greek, but for the sake of argument what exactly does the original Greek say in English.

 

[KennethC]

The reason there is no sound doctrine from most people is because they change the bible on things they don't like. Best practice is read the bible, believe it and be happy whatever it says.

Where is the Holy Spirit play in all of this to you, because without Him no amount of reading the bible will a person come away with the proper understanding ???

 

[coby]

Where did I ever say and deny eternal security ???

Please show me where because you have made this false accusation !!!

What I said is that eternal security is not taught in the way that Augustine (A Catholic) and Calvin (Also a Catholic that started Protestant reformation) !!!

That is not denying eternal security, that is denying the false teachings of men that do not align with God's Word.

Also you are doing the same thing we mentioned before by posting your

101 Bible Reasons Proving Eternal Security
​

You do know the other side can do exactly the same thing ???

Here is proof:

200 Scriptures That Refute Eternal Security

Yes the false teaching and I saw a calvinist on another forum literally say that, says that you can go on fornicating or killing and are still saved. No fornicator or murderer will inherit the Kingdom.

 

[KennethC]

I have no use for Greek, but for the sake of argument what exactly does the original Greek say in English.

It says exactly the same thing just omit the of or in, as that is not the original as it says, "faith Christ" !!!

The reason why in was added was because going back to Jesus teachings, He says "abide in Him", therefore the faith also has to be in Him as they are one and the same.

You can not have faith if you don't abide in Him !!!

Apart form Him there is no salvation...................

 

[Grace777x70]

it is simply in the genitive case which means it belongs to ..in Gal 2:20...the "of" seems to be the better translation altho there is no actual greek word in the passage itself

Genitive Case

For the most part, the genitive is often viewed as the case of possession. In more technical terms one noun in the genitive case helps to qualify another noun by showing its "class" or "kind". The genitive case has more uses than most other cases, but in general a noun in the genitive case helps to limit the scope of another noun by indicating its "kind" or "class".

It is generally translated into English with a prepositional phrase starting with the word "of". The most common use of the genitive is to show possession (although it does not necessarily indicate actual, literal ownership).

For instance: "the servant of the high priest" (Mark 14:47). The words "of the high priest" are in the genitive case in Greek and modify the word "servant". (In Greek the word "of" is not present, but it is supplied in English in the translation of the genitive case). Here the genitive helps to qualify "which" servant the writer is referring to. It is helping to limit the sphere of all servants to a particular one.

And: "But you have received a spirit of sonship..." (Rom 8:15). Again the word "sonship" is in the genitive case, telling what kind of spirit we have received.

I have no use for Greek, but for the sake of argument what exactly does the original Greek say in English.

 

[KJV1611]

Where is the Holy Spirit play in all of this to you, because without Him no amount of reading the bible will a person come away with the proper understanding ???

How many times has the Holy Spirit said now Kenneth you know what you're reading is wrong, the translators messed it up here.... now you go over and read that verse from the NIV because they got it right. Has the Holy Spirit ever said something like that to you?

 

[KennethC]

Yes the false teaching and I saw a calvinist on another forum literally say that, says that you can go on fornicating or killing and are still saved. No fornicator or murderer will inherit the Kingdom.

I use to be in the Calvinist doctrine of osas, which is why I thought I was saved all those years when I walked away from the church and was living in sin !!!

At 25 when I finally gave myself back to the Lord I found out, thanks be to God, how wrong I was !!!

He by the Holy Spirit opened my eyes to the false teaching in that doctrine, and showed me the true teachings of eternal security from the Word of God.

When I seen this and was lead by the Holy Spirit I was pulled by Him in the roll of teaching, and shown I needed to pull people out of that deception as I was in once before.

It took me over 10 years to wake up to the Truth so I knew this wasn't going to be an easy road, He told me don't worry though as He was hated and rejected first !!!!

 

[KJV1611]

it is simply in the genitive case which means it belongs to ..in Gal 2:20...the "of" seems to be the better translation altho there is no actual greek word in the passage itself

Genitive Case

For the most part, the genitive is often viewed as the case of possession. In more technical terms one noun in the genitive case helps to qualify another noun by showing its "class" or "kind". The genitive case has more uses than most other cases, but in general a noun in the genitive case helps to limit the scope of another noun by indicating its "kind" or "class".

It is generally translated into English with a prepositional phrase starting with the word "of". The most common use of the genitive is to show possession (although it does not necessarily indicate actual, literal ownership).

For instance: "the servant of the high priest" (Mark 14:47). The words "of the high priest" are in the genitive case in Greek and modify the word "servant". (In Greek the word "of" is not present, but it is supplied in English in the translation of the genitive case). Here the genitive helps to qualify "which" servant the writer is referring to. It is helping to limit the sphere of all servants to a particular one.

And: "But you have received a spirit of sonship..." (Rom 8:15). Again the word "sonship" is in the genitive case, telling what kind of spirit we have received.

That's not what I'm looking for. I don't want ot know "what seems to be the better translation", I'm looking for the definitive answer. Does the Greek text mean "of" or "in"?

 

[KennethC]

How many times has the Holy Spirit said now Kenneth you know what you're reading is wrong, the translators messed it up here.... now you go over and read that verse from the NIV because they got it right. Has the Holy Spirit ever said something like that to you?

I don't read the NIV or the NASB because the Holy Spirit has showed me how some of the verses has been changed to corrupt His word.

I stay mainly with the KJV and NKJV, but the Holy Spirit has guided me to the original Greek and Hebrew for proper understanding.

Which is why I also know that even some of the Greek definitions and usages have been tampered with over time by the RCC and other so-called scholars !!!

The Holy Spirit speaks to me on a regular basis, even when I am not reading the bible !!!

There has been many of times I was out working in the field and He said something to me to either do or say that day !!!

 

[phil36]

I use to be in the Calvinist doctrine of osas

Hi Kenneth, could you explain to me please what Calvinist doctrine of osas is?

 

[KJV1611]

I don't read the NIV or the NASB because the Holy Spirit has showed me how some of the verses has been changed to corrupt His word.

I stay mainly with the KJV and NKJV, but the Holy Spirit has guided me to the original Greek and Hebrew for proper understanding.

Which is why I also know that even some of the Greek definitions and usages have been tampered with over time by the RCC and other so-called scholars !!!

The Holy Spirit speaks to me on a regular basis, even when I am not reading the bible !!!

There has been many of times I was out working in the field and He said something to me to either do or say that day !!!

So the KJV's wrong, the Greek definitions are wrong, the NIV and NASB are corrupt... so you have no absolute authority to lead you to the truth except for that voice in your head that you call the Holy Spirit. How do you know it's the Holy Spirit, how do you know it's not another spirit that's leading you? Other spirits do try to mislead us you know.

 

[phil36]

I don't read the NIV or the NASB because the Holy Spirit has showed me how some of the verses has been changed to corrupt His word.

I stay mainly with the KJV and NKJV, but the Holy Spirit has guided me to the original Greek and Hebrew for proper understanding.

Which is why I also know that even some of the Greek definitions and usages have been tampered with over time by the RCC and other so-called scholars !!!

The Holy Spirit speaks to me on a regular basis, even when I am not reading the bible !!!

There has been many of times I was out working in the field and He said something to me to either do or say that day !!!

Hi Kenneth, Its great to see you have studied Greek and are an expert. Could please parse 'declared' for me using the Greek word as I am struggling.. and also if you could tell how you came to that conclusion.that would help me out greatly.

Many thanks in advance.

 

[KennethC]

Hi Kenneth, could you explain to me please what Calvinist doctrine of osas is?

The original OSAS saved doctrine as taught by Calvin, and I had to clarify that because there are different versions around now.

But the original version says that once you become a believer in Christ no matter how you live or act from here on out matters. You can go live your life however you want because you are saved in Christ, no amount of sinning will change that !!!

That is not correct though as the bible clearly shows that continuing to deliberately be sinful is a showing that a person is not born again, or has returned to a sinful lifestyle neglecting the salvation that has been offered to them.

It is one of the main reasons why sin is so downplayed and not given its due seriousness now days !!!

The Word of God says sin separates us from and causes us to be enmity to God, but now day doctrine's pretty much give it a it doesn't matter stance !!!

 

[Grace777x70]

Well if you read what was in what I posted you would see that "of" would be the better translation but again..there is no greek word there for "of" or "in"...in Gal 2:20

That's not what I'm looking for. I don't want ot know "what seems to be the better translation", I'm looking for the definitive answer. Does the Greek text mean "of" or "in"?

 

[ForthAngel]

The original OSAS saved doctrine as taught by Calvin, and I had to clarify that because there are different versions around now.

But the original version says that once you become a believer in Christ no matter how you live or act from here on out matters. You can go live your life however you want because you are saved in Christ, no amount of sinning will change that !!!

That is not correct though as the bible clearly shows that continuing to deliberately be sinful is a showing that a person is not born again, or has returned to a sinful lifestyle neglecting the salvation that has been offered to them.

It is one of the main reasons why sin is so downplayed and not given its due seriousness now days !!!

The Word of God says sin separates us from and causes us to be enmity to God, but now day doctrine's pretty much give it a it doesn't matter stance !!!

That's not what the doctrine of eternal security teaches, neither did Calvin. You left out regeneration and sanctification that goes along with the born again nature.

 

[phil36]

The original OSAS saved doctrine as taught by Calvin, and I had to clarify that because there are different versions around now.

But the original version says that once you become a believer in Christ no matter how you live or act from here on out matters. You can go live your life however you want because you are saved in Christ, no amount of sinning will change that !!!

That is not correct though as the bible clearly shows that continuing to deliberately be sinful is a showing that a person is not born again, or has returned to a sinful lifestyle neglecting the salvation that has been offered to them.

It is one of the main reasons why sin is so downplayed and not given its due seriousness now days !!!

The Word of God says sin separates us from and causes us to be enmity to God, but now day doctrine's pretty much give it a it doesn't matter stance !!!

Well, I have never heard any reformed teach that. Which to be honest casts doubt that you actually understood what you said you where 'in'