Sovereignty of God and Moral Responsibility of Man

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Sep 8, 2012
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Do you believe this? that mark has to believe Jesus is the "one true God" to be saved? even though Jesus said this is not even true?
E.G., the Son of Man IS the Son of God.
The whole of the Bible testifies to this.
Jesus IS God incarnate.
No biblical scholar (outside of liberal theologians) questions this.
The three are one. - "Hear Oh Israel, the Lord your God is one God."
Elohim is plural for a reason.
Please don't believe what I say, because I'm obviously an idiot.
Read what the Bible says.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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I'm just pointing out your beliefs.
No hole.

hey Rick...
a grown man whose only mission is to make a special point (on every thread) of claiming to not know, nor needing to know that Jesus Himself was crucified for the very reason that He 'made Himself equal to God'....not only has a serious problem himself, but those who are willing to compromise the truth...well.

let him answer for such a mission, on the last day.

Jesus not only never denied He was making Himself equal with God, He affirmed it.
He used the very Name of God the jews knew....through Moses - I AM.

a 7 year old knows the Word was God, and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us.
God said all along He would do just that.

Jesus said His words were what would condemn people on the last day, those who refuse to believe Him:

23And he said to them, “You are from below and I am from above. You are from this world; I am not from this world.” 24“I said to you that you shall die in your sins, for unless you shall believe that I AM THE LIVING GOD, you shall die in your sins.”


John 8
1But Yeshua went to the Mount of Olives, and in the morning he came again to The Temple. 2And all the people came to him, and when he sat, he taught them. 3But the Scribes and the Pharisees brought a women who had been seized in adultery, and when they stood her in the midst, 4They were saying to him, “Teacher, this woman was taken openly in the act of adultery.” 5“But in The Written Law of Moses, he commanded that we shall stone such as these.” 6“What therefore do you say?” This they said, as they were tempting him, so that they might have something for which to accuse him. 7But as they persisted asking him, he stood up and he said to them, “He among you who is without sin, let him first cast a stone upon her.” 8And stooping down again, he wrote on the ground. 9But when these heard, they were exiting, one by one, beginning from the Elders, and the woman who had been in the midst was left alone. 10But when he stood up, Yeshua said to the woman, “Where are they? Has no man condemned you?” 11But she said, “Not even one, LORD GOD”; and Yeshua said, “Neither do I condemn you. Go, and from now on, sin no more.”

12And Yeshua spoke again with them and he said: “I AM THE LIVING GOD, The Light of the world. Whoever follows me shall not walk in darkness but shall find the light of life.” 13The Pharisees were saying to him: “You are testifying about yourself; your testimony is not true.” 14Yeshua answered and said to them, “Even if I testify about myself, my testimony is true, because I know from where I have come and where I am going, but you do not know from where I have come and where I am going.” 15“You are judging carnally; I am judging no one.” 16“But even if I do judge, my judgment is true, because I am not alone, but I and my Father who has sent Me.” 17“And in your Written Law it is written: 'The testimony of two men is true.' “ 18“I AM THE LIVING GOD, I who testify about myself, and my Father who has sent me has testified about Me.” 19They were saying to him, “Where is your Father?” Yeshua answered and said to them, “You know neither me nor my Father. If you had known me, you would have known my Father also.” 20He spoke these words in the treasury as he taught in The Temple, and no man seized him, for his hour had not yet come.

21Yeshua spoke again to them: “I am moving on and you will seek me and you will die in your sins, and where I am going, you cannot come.” 22The Judeans were saying, “Will he now kill himself?”, because he had said, “Where I am going, you cannot come.” 23And he said to them, “You are from below and I am from above. You are from this world; I am not from this world.” 24“I said to you that you shall die in your sins, for unless you shall believe that I AM THE LIVING GOD, you shall die in your sins.” 25The Judeans were saying, “Who are you?” Yeshua said to them, “Even though I have begun to talk with you, 26There are many things for me to say and judge concerning you, but he who has sent me is true, and those things that I have heard from him, these things I am speaking in the world.” 27And they did not know that he spoke to them about The Father. 28Yeshua spoke again to them: “When you have lifted up The Son of Man, then you shall know that I AM THE LIVING GOD, and I do nothing for my own pleasure, but just as my Father has taught me, so I am speaking. 29And he who has sent me is with me, and my Father has not left me alone, because I am doing always what is beautiful to him.” 30When he was speaking these things, many trusted in him.

Aramaic Bible IN PLAIN ENGLISH:rolleyes:
 
Jan 11, 2013
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E.G., the Son of Man IS the Son of God.
The whole of the Bible testifies to this.
Jesus IS God incarnate.
No biblical scholar (outside of liberal theologians) questions this.
The three are one. - "Hear Oh Israel, the Lord your God is one God."
Elohim is plural for a reason.
Please don't believe what I say, because I'm obviously an idiot.
Read what the Bible says.
Your problem is you don't understand the basics of the Chruistian faith, for you actually believe a person will stand condemned on the day of Judgement for standing on the plain words of Christ when he walked this earth. Such spiritual immaturity is something I have never heard or come accross in the flesh
If you don't understand the basics of the faith, how on earth are you going to interpret what bible verses say?

You are lost Rick, you have theologised yourself to a position of absurdity, as Paul states

The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise are futile
1Cor3:21
 
Feb 17, 2013
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Mark, My brother and friend it seems to me that you are denying the deity of Jesus. Jesus said if you have seen me you have seen the father. They are one and the same. There is no difference between the two. They are God in three persons the blessed trinity. You keep saying that Jesus is less than the father. I cannot agree with you. They are one and the same. Not to mention The Holy Spirit.

Maybe I still don't understand. But you scolded me once and the I see you saying the same thing. My Friend, Jesus is God and equal with the Father and the Holy Spirit. If you disagree, I still love you as a friend.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
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Your problem is you don't understand the basics of the Chruistian faith, for you actually believe a person will stand condemned on the day of Judgement for standing on the plain words of Christ when he walked this earth. Such spiritual immaturity is something I have never heard or come accross in the flesh
If you don't understand the basics of the faith, how on earth are you going to interpret what bible verses say?

You are lost Rick, you have theologised yourself to a position of absurdity, as Paul states

The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise are futile
1Cor3:21
oh the irony....

this title is given α. to God, the ruler of the universe
Sept. for אֲדֹנָי, אֱלוהַּ, אֱלֹהִים, יְהוָה, and יָהּ;

Matthew 3:3
For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias saying The voice of one crying in the wilderness Prepare ye the way of the Lord make his paths straight


etc
etc
etc

:rolleyes:
 
Jan 11, 2013
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Mark, My brother and friend it seems to me that you are denying the deity of Jesus. Jesus said if you have seen me you have seen the father. They are one and the same. There is no difference between the two. They are God in three persons the blessed trinity. You keep saying that Jesus is less than the father. I cannot agree with you. They are one and the same. Not to mention The Holy Spirit.

Maybe I still don't understand. But you scolded me once and the I see you saying the same thing. My Friend, Jesus is God and equal with the Father and the Holy Spirit. If you disagree, I still love you as a friend.
Sorry Earl, I didn't mean to scold you, please frorgive me if that is so, but I can only cope with one conversation at a time I am afraid
 
Sep 8, 2012
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Christ is the son of God, he reigns now in Heaven and on earth for the Father has put everything under his feet

You're getting more and more desperate aren't you, it is sad really to see you like thjis, that is the truth
You've had to resort, to lying about my beliefs, distorting them, and all becasue you have no scripture to support your extra bbilical demands unto salvation, and your trying so hard to produce scripture to support your extra biblical demands but it is useless of course
Like I say, you are in a tiny minority, nearly all the ministers in the churches(who you don't believe should be ministers incidentally) don't want to know of your extra bilical demands
But heck, this is the internet and we have to make allowances for that.
Carrty on with your empty bluster Rick, you haven't got anything else after all have you on this subject
Mark, you need to see the truth of the gospel, that God made Himself a man.
And yes, Jesus(in His physical state was less than the Father); how can an omnipotent God be contained in a physical body? - It can't happen! But that was just a state that the Son of God was in temporally. Jesus was every bit as important as the Father who sent Him to our sanctification, as is the Holy Spirit who sanctifies us. - (Which is why it was shed on all flesh AFTER the ultimate sacrifice of the perfect life and obedient death of Jesus Christ, - not before)
I understand it. God is one in three persons. I know that, I have explained it.
Mark, you can call me lost all you want, but you are a frank Armenian who rejects the Godhood of the Son.
It's funny since He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life to us fallen ones; and He is the only Door;.......(kind of ironic)
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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63
Sorry Earl, I didn't mean to scold you, please frorgive me if that is so, but I can only cope with one conversation at a time I am afraid
you only have one conversation:

DENYING CHRIST IS GOD.

we get it.

Arianism is an heretical error regarding the Trinity, denying the deity of Christ.

Arianism
This doctrine had it roots in Tertullian, who made the Son subordinate to the Father. Origen took this further by teaching that the Son was subordinate to the Father ''in respect to essence.'' The result was ultimately Arianism which denied the deity of Christ. Arius taught that only God was the uncreated One; because Christ was begotten of the Father it meant Christ was created by the Father. Arius believed there was a time when Christ did not exist. Arius and his teaching was condemned at the Council of Nicea in A.D. 325.36

Arianism
a Christian heresy first proposed early in the 4th century by the Alexandrian presbyter Arius. It affirmed that Christ is not truly divine but a created being. Arius' basic premise was the uniqueness of God, who is alone self-existent and immutable; the Son, who is not self-existent, cannot be God. Because the Godhead is unique, it cannot be shared or communicated, so the Son cannot be God. Because the Godhead is immutable, the Son, who is mutable, being represented in the Gospels as subject to growth and change, cannot be God. The Son must, therefore, be deemed a creature who has been called into existence out of nothing and has had a beginning. Moreover, the Son can have no direct knowledge of the Father since the Son is finite and of a different order of existence.

- Articles -
Arianism Entry in Encyclopedia Brittanica

- See Also -
» Jehovah's Witnesses teach arianism
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
E.G., the Son of Man IS the Son of God.
The whole of the Bible testifies to this.
Jesus IS God incarnate.
No biblical scholar (outside of liberal theologians) questions this.
The three are one. - "Hear Oh Israel, the Lord your God is one God."
Elohim is plural for a reason.
Please don't believe what I say, because I'm obviously an idiot.
Read what the Bible says.
lol.. Yet mark denys non of this.

That is why no one can talk about things in here. NO ONE WILL LISTEN TO WHAT ANYONE IS SAYING..

now I have a question. are you ever going to show me something mark really believes? or claim he believes something he actually does believe??


or continue to twist his words.. and make hims say something he does not claim??
 
Jan 11, 2013
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Mark, you need to see the truth of the gospel, that God made Himself a man.
And yes, Jesus(in His physical state was less than the Father); how can an omnipotent God be contained in a physical body? - It can't happen! But that was just a state that the Son of God was in temporally. Jesus was every bit as important as the Father who sent Him to our sanctification, as is the Holy Spirit who sanctifies us. - (Which is why it was shed on all flesh AFTER the ultimate sacrifice of the perfect life and obedient death of Jesus Christ, - not before)
I understand it. God is one in three persons. I know that, I have explained it.
Mark, you can call me lost all you want, but you are a frank Armenian who rejects the Godhood of the Son.
It's funny since He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life to us fallen ones; and He is the only Door;.......(kind of ironic)
I could go over what you have written, but no point. I'm still waiting for the scripture that states a person must believe Christ is the one true God to inhehrit eternal life, even though Jesus says that is not true

Come on Rick, you've read the bible. You're not gonna tell me that the belief eternal life hinges on and is the core of the Christian faith is not plainly stated in scripture are you?
I don't think that fits with the words of Christ

At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, ‘I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.

But Paul does tell us:

will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.’[SUP][c][/SUP]
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? [SUP]21 [/SUP]For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. [SUP]22 [/SUP]Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, [SUP]23 [/SUP]but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling-block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, [SUP]24 [/SUP]but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. [SUP]25 [/SUP]For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength.
[SUP]26[/SUP]Brothers and sisters, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. [SUP]27 [/SUP]But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. [SUP]28 [/SUP]God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things – and the things that are not – to nullify the things that are, [SUP]29 [/SUP]so that no one may boast before him. [SUP]30 [/SUP]It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God – that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. [SUP]31 [/SUP]Therefore, as it is written: ‘Let the one who boasts boast in the Lord.’[SUP][d]



[/SUP]
 
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Jan 11, 2013
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lol.. Yet mark denys non of this.

That is why no one can talk about things in here. NO ONE WILL LISTEN TO WHAT ANYONE IS SAYING..

now I have a question. are you ever going to show me something mark really believes? or claim he believes something he actually does believe??


or continue to twist his words.. and make hims say something he does not claim??
He doesn't have any choice EG for he is making extra biblical demands unto salvation and has no scripture with which to back up his claims, so he has no choice but to divert from this as he is doing
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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He doesn't have any choice EG for he is making extra biblical demands unto salvation and has no scripture with which to back up his claims, so he has no choice but to divert from this as he is doing
do you deny Jesus is God?
do you deny there is only One True God?

just answer in your simple way....then we'll all know.
 
Sep 8, 2012
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Mark, the scripture is plain.
He who believes on the Son has eternal life, he who does not is condemned.
Parse that as you will.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
He doesn't have any choice EG for he is making extra biblical demands unto salvation and has no scripture with which to back up his claims, so he has no choice but to divert from this as he is doing
some people I think just are to proud to admit they were wrong, even about little things in here. and they will continue to fight to prove they are right.

It is a sad state of affairs.. Some want to continue to live in the days of the reformation when these things happened, and people died over these fights. because no one wants to sit and listen to what others believe, they hear a few "key words" they have learned in their indoctrination of their church, and say,, Yep I get it, this guy is a heretic.. blah blah blah.

I think as abiding said, you make certain claims you have to expect to get haggled by some. Others who question. just calmly state your belief.. and ty to think of what questions they will ask and answer them..

Like when I asked you about the OT passage, and who that was.. You admitted it was Jesus who was the God of Isreal sent by the father and the spirit...

But also know. even if you do this, people will still twist what you say, because you do not believe word for word what they say, and God forbid we should be wrong in even one doctrine!
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Mark, the scripture is plain.
He who believes on the Son has eternal life, he who does not is condemned.
Parse that as you will.
And mark believes this..

yet you refuse to see it!
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
E.G., the Son of Man IS the Son of God.
The whole of the Bible testifies to this.
Jesus IS God incarnate.
No biblical scholar (outside of liberal theologians) questions this.
The three are one. - "Hear Oh Israel, the Lord your God is one God."
Elohim is plural for a reason.
Please don't believe what I say, because I'm obviously an idiot.
Read what the Bible says.

lol.. Yet mark denys non of this.

That is why no one can talk about things in here. NO ONE WILL LISTEN TO WHAT ANYONE IS SAYING..

now I have a question. are you ever going to show me something mark really believes? or claim he believes something he actually does believe??


or continue to twist his words.. and make hims say something he does not claim??
Mark, do you deny Jesus is God Incarnate?
do you deny 'Hear Oh Israel, the Lord your God is one God' is referring to Father, Son (JESUS) and Holy Spirit?

just get it out there for everybody once and for all.
1Still already said CC considers denial of Christ as God is considered heresy.
so?

what do you believe, Mark?
 
Jan 11, 2013
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Mark, the scripture is plain.
He who believes on the Son has eternal life, he who does not is condemned.
Parse that as you will.

Yep, the scripture is plain

If anyone believes Jesus is the son of God, God lives in him and he in God
1John4:15
Can't get any plainer than that

Of course, if you have a verse that states what you believe, a person must believe Jesus is the one true God to inhehrit eternal life, please prodice itvRick

Like I say, you and other head theologists on websites like these who are proud of what you think you know are in as tiny minority. Nearly all the ministers in the Trinitarian churches(who you don't believe should be ministers) don't make your immature demands from the pulpit
But hey ho, like I said, this is the internet, and allowances must be made for those who consider themselves wise in their own eyes
 
Sep 8, 2012
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will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.’[SUP][c][/SUP]
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? [SUP]21 [/SUP]For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. [SUP]22 [/SUP]Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, [SUP]23 [/SUP]but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling-block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, [SUP]24 [/SUP]but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. [SUP]25 [/SUP]For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength.
[SUP]26[/SUP]Brothers and sisters, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. [SUP]27 [/SUP]But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. [SUP]28 [/SUP]God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things – and the things that are not – to nullify the things that are, [SUP]29 [/SUP]so that no one may boast before him. [SUP]30 [/SUP]It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God – that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. [SUP]31 [/SUP]Therefore, as it is written: ‘Let the one who boasts boast in the Lord.’[d]


Who is wise in their own conceits?
You seem to rely on this set of verses so much methinks you are.
All I do is quote more than two sets of scripture.
But according to E.T.(Extra Terrestrial), I'm twisting.
But then again, everyone who doesn't agree with him on every point is twisting scripture.