Sovereignty of God and Moral Responsibility of Man

[RickShafer]

Mark54 said - "Do you agree with Rick that nearly all of the ministers in the Trinitarian churches should not be ministers, on account of them not plainy preaching from the pulpit the truth you prclaim on the internet, just wondered? "

I never said that.
You are a deceitful person.
Arguing within your own mind again. (Surprise,surprise)
Don't you know that is dangerous? - To ascribe things to others they did not say?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Mark54 said - "Do you agree with Rick that nearly all of the ministers in the Trinitarian churches should not be ministers, on account of them not plainy preaching from the pulpit the truth you prclaim on the internet, just wondered? "

I never said that.
You are a deceitful person.
Arguing within your own mind again. (Surprise,surprise)
Don't you know that is dangerous? - To ascribe things to others they did not say?

I think it is kind of ironic. I heard him ask you this over and over. and you never denied it was true..in fact the content of what mark said, from what i can see it true (although I think it is a weak argument)

yet you ask him to stop ascribing things to you you did not say, yet you have done this to him all morning??

 

[cfultz3]

I never said that.
You are a deceitful person.
Arguing within your own mind again. (Surprise,surprise)
Don't you know that is dangerous? - To ascribe things to others they did not say?

Would this not broil down to: do as I say, not as I do. One cannot correct another if they do not practice what they preach.

 

[mark54]

Mark54 said - "Do you agree with Rick that nearly all of the ministers in the Trinitarian churches should not be ministers, on account of them not plainy preaching from the pulpit the truth you prclaim on the internet, just wondered? "

I never said that.
You are a deceitful person.
Arguing within your own mind again. (Surprise,surprise)
Don't you know that is dangerous? - To ascribe things to others they did not say?

But lets see how sincere you really are

Would you publically state here and now that any minister who refuses to state plainly from the pulpit salvific belief and the consequences of getting it wrong, should not be a minister
IE
Any minister who refuses tp plainly state from the pulpit that if a person believes Jesus is the Son of God, but not the one true God Himself they cannot be saved with that belief, and are therefore condemned and will go to hell if they keep that belief. Will you say any minister who refuses to plainly state that from the pulpit should not be allowed to preach in a church

You see Rick, you and I both know that every minister is plainly obligated to preach clearly from the pulpit any salvific belief and the copnsequences of getting it wrong
Now let us see If you have Holy Spirit conviction on this, for if you do, you cannot compromise, deflect or fudge, when answering

The above is what I wrote, below is your response

Yes, I am saying that!

 

[zone]

But lets see how sincere you really are

Would you publically state here and now that any minister who refuses to state plainly from the pulpit salvific belief and the consequences of getting it wrong, should not be a minister
IE
Any minister who refuses tp plainly state from the pulpit that if a person believes Jesus is the Son of God, but not the one true God Himself they cannot be saved with that belief, and are therefore condemned and will go to hell if they keep that belief. Will you say any minister who refuses to plainly state that from the pulpit should not be allowed to preach in a church

You see Rick, you and I both know that every minister is plainly obligated to preach clearly from the pulpit any salvific belief and the copnsequences of getting it wrong
Now let us see If you have Holy Spirit conviction on this, for if you do, you cannot compromise, deflect or fudge, when answering

The above is what I wrote, below is your response

Yes, I am saying that!

let's see......how hard is this?


Preacher is in Pulpit.

Preacher preaches directly from the Word.

and....?

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

any preacher who refuses to preach plainly from the Word of God, about the Word of God should not be a minister.

.......

Mark54......Would you publically state here and now that any minister who refuses to preach plainly from the Word of God about the Word of God, Who was with God in the Beginning, and Who was God and became flesh and walked among us should not be a minister?

 

[mark54]

let's see......how hard is this?


Preacher is in Pulpit.

Preacher preaches directly from the Word.

and....?

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

any preacher who has who refuses to preach plainly from the Word of God, about the Word of God should not be a minister.

.......

Mark54......Would you publically state here and now that any minister who refuses to preach plainly from the Word of God about the Word of God, Who was with God in the Beginning, and Who was God and became flesh and walked among us should not be a minister?

Pathetic response, you are back on ignore

 

[RickShafer]

I refuse to put it in your terms.
Your terms are wrong.
Jesus is the Son of God.
Belief of Him IS tantamount.
To say - "You must believe Jesus is the Father" is wrong.
Also, to say, Jesus is a lesser diety is wrong.
No one in either camp(trinity or oneness) ascribes to either of those models - because it is patently false as proven by scripture.
I simply won't be categorized by your false premises.
No 'oneness' doctrine states Jesus was the Father. They simply say Jesus was the essence of the Spirit of God in Human form.-Making Jesus the "all in all" - in other words, He was everything the Father was.
In the same sense, no trinitarian believes Jesus was created, or a lesser diety. They say He was God incarnate in the flesh.
So, your whole Arian premise is way off, and was disposed of by those who were led by the Spirit long ago.
Do you want to know why? Because they had the Holy Writ to judge such ideas.
The very early church(1rst century) didn't have that - (the canon), to judge what was truth from error.
Arian thought was dispatched as the heresy it is long ago by Inspired men.
If you want to hang onto it that is your business.
But I showed you over thirty scriptures refuting it.
So dream on Marcus Aurelius.

 

[zone]

Pathetic response, you are back on ignore

doubt it.
only when it suits ya.....hey Mark -

Mark54......Would you publically state here and now that any minister who refuses to preach plainly from the Word of God about the Word of God, Who was with God in the Beginning, and Who was God and became flesh and walked among us should not be a minister?

 

[mark54]

I refuse to put it in your terms.
Your terms are wrong.
Jesus is the Son of God.
Belief of Him IS tantamount.
To say - "You must believe Jesus is the Father" is wrong.
Also, to say, Jesus is a lesser diety is wrong.
No one in either camp(trinity or oneness) ascribes to either of those models - because it is patently false as proven by scripture.
I simply won't be categorized by your false premises.
No 'oneness' doctrine states Jesus was the Father. They simply say Jesus was the essence of the Spirit of God in Human form.-Making Jesus the "all in all" - in other words, He was everything the Father was.
In the same sense, no trinitarian believes Jesus was created, or a lesser diety. They say He was God incarnate in the flesh.
So, your whole Arian premise is way off, and was disposed of by those who were led by the Spirit long ago.
Do you want to know why? Because they had the Holy Writ to judge such ideas.
The very early church(1rst century) didn't have that - (the canon), to judge what was truth from error.
Arian thought was dispatched as the heresy it is long ago by Inspired men.
If you want to hang onto it that is your business.
But I showed you over thirty scriptures refuting it.
So dream on Marcus Aurelius.

Well well well, so the early church could not judge truth from error. So neither, Paul, Peter, James or John could judge truth from error, wow Rick, that is the most amazing statement I have ever read on one of these websites

 

[Abiding]

Mark you really need a new hobby. Causing discord and division just isnt Gods will.
I understand you have a point to prove. But love doesnt do that.
If your pride needs it....shake dust. Jesus nowhere in scripture beat a dead horse.

 

[Elin]

Your right ill admit i have an attitude. It isnt the depth of scripture. Its philosophy.

The meaning Jesus gave of the parables is philosophy?

The meaning of the sacrifices is philosophy?

I wont be bothering you any longer thanks for the help.
At least ive finally seen the doctrine. Orthodoxy depends on whos
calling the shots.

Can you demonstrate your false assertion about the source of what I present being from men,

by presenting three examples that are not from Scripture, but from men?

 

[mark54]

Mark you really need a new hobby. Causing discord and division just isnt Gods will.
I understand you have a point to prove. But love doesnt do that.
If your pride needs it....shake dust. Jesus nowhere in scripture beat a dead horse.

But Abiding, why just post this to me?
If you are honest, you know people keep coming to me and wanting to discuss it
Don't you think it would be a wee bit more even handed if you posted to a couple of the main culprtis too, just to show you are even handed as it were

BTW
I am in the majority in Christendom, though possibly not on the internet, unto required salvational belief, that I know to be the truth

 

[eternally-gratefull]

But Abiding, why just post this to me?
If you are honest, you know people keep coming to me and wanting to discuss it
Don't you think it would be a wee bit more even handed if you posted to a couple of the main culprtis too, just to show you are even handed as it were

BTW
I am in the majority in Christendom, though not on the internet, unto required salvational belief, that I know to be the truth

I think what he is trying to say is ignore certain people. if someone else comes and asks you, feel free to explain what you mean. But some people are into twisting everything people who do not agree with them say, and make them look bad. Is it really worth defending yourself to them?

It took me awhile to figure this out myself..

 

[Abiding]

But Abiding, why just post this to me?
If you are honest, you know people keep coming to me and wanting to discuss it
Don't you think it would be a wee bit more even handed if you posted to a couple of the main culprtis too, just to show you are even handed as it were

BTW
I am in the majority in Christendom, though possibly not on the internet, unto required salvational belief, that I know to be the truth

No excuses...find a new hobby. Learn to ignore, or cause discord and division.

 

[RickShafer]

Well well well, so the early church could not judge truth from error. So neither, Paul, Peter, James or John could judge truth from error, wow Rick, that is the most amazing statement I have ever read on one of these websites

Marcus, I quoted from each of those excepting Peter in my responses to your Arian heresy,......and it wouldn't take long to find the truth of Jesus' Godhead in his writings either.
Go back and read my responses. - - - - - - - - - - --
- - - (Please, anyone reading this thread, go back and read the discourse between Mark54 and I.)

 

[mark54]

No excuses...find a new hobby. Learn to ignore, or cause discord and division.

Well maybe I should ignore 'em, but its them causing division not me, the majorioty of Christendom agrees with me as to required salvational belief, they are in the minority, not majority

 

[zone]

let's see......how hard is this?


Preacher is in Pulpit.

Preacher preaches directly from the Word.

and....?

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

any preacher who refuses to preach plainly from the Word of God, about the Word of God should not be a minister.

.......

Mark54......Would you publically state here and now that any minister who refuses to preach plainly from the Word of God about the Word of God, Who was with God in the Beginning, and Who was God and became flesh and walked among us should not be a minister?

really EG?
this is a pathetic response to who and who should not be preaching from the pulpit?
serious?

you disagree with the post? or just have a grudge against the poster

how's that axe coming?
sharp enough yet?

meh....amazing.
Daniel 9 is fulfilled btw.

 

[zone]

Well maybe I should ignore 'em, but its them causing division not me

 

[mark54]

I refuse to put it in your terms.
Your terms are wrong.
Jesus is the Son of God.
Belief of Him IS tantamount.
To say - "You must believe Jesus is the Father" is wrong.
Also, to say, Jesus is a lesser diety is wrong.
No one in either camp(trinity or oneness) ascribes to either of those models - because it is patently false as proven by scripture.
I simply won't be categorized by your false premises.
No 'oneness' doctrine states Jesus was the Father. They simply say Jesus was the essence of the Spirit of God in Human form.-Making Jesus the "all in all" - in other words, He was everything the Father was.
In the same sense, no trinitarian believes Jesus was created, or a lesser diety. They say He was God incarnate in the flesh.
So, your whole Arian premise is way off, and was disposed of by those who were led by the Spirit long ago.
Do you want to know why? Because they had the Holy Writ to judge such ideas.
The very early church(1rst century) didn't have that - (the canon), to judge what was truth from error.
Arian thought was dispatched as the heresy it is long ago by Inspired men.
If you want to hang onto it that is your business.
But I showed you over thirty scriptures refuting it.
So dream on Marcus Aurelius.

But lets see how sincere you really are

Would you publically state here and now that any minister who refuses to state plainly from the pulpit salvific belief and the consequences of getting it wrong, should not be a minister
IE
Any minister who refuses tp plainly state from the pulpit that if a person believes Jesus is the Son of God, but not the one true God Himself they cannot be saved with that belief, and are therefore condemned and will go to hell if they keep that belief. Will you say any minister who refuses to plainly state that from the pulpit should not be allowed to preach in a church

You see Rick, you and I both know that every minister is plainly obligated to preach clearly from the pulpit any salvific belief and the copnsequences of getting it wrong
Now let us see If you have Holy Spirit conviction on this, for if you do, you cannot compromise, deflect or fudge, when answering

The above is what I wrote, below is your response

Yes, I am saying that!



I understand now Rick. You know more truth than did the leaders of the early church, and as nearly all of the trinitarian ministers from the pulpit will not preach the salvific belief I put before you and the consequences of getting it wrong they should not be allowed to be ministers in your opinion.

You know if this wasn't so tragic it would make me smile, but it epitomises the few fasnatics that come on the internet, who think they know because through their hard work of the academic mind have striven and succeeded in learning much truth

 

[Abiding]

The meaning Jesus gave of the parables is philosophy?

The meaning of the sacrifices is philosophy?



Can you demonstrate your false assertion about the source of what I present being from men,

by presenting three examples that are not from Scripture, but from men?

I never once mentioned Jesus words being philosophy. Or the sacrifices.
Yes i can, but no i wont. At least for now ive stopped. Cant see any benefit.
My contention is in the nature of God in redemption. Ive heard your take.
And seen your scriptural position, and i just dont agree with it. And im not
wanting to get into a neverending battle....which im sure is all that will happen.
My activity in the thread was during a period when i wasnt sure what you were
actually teaching, now i know and cant see any point in discussing it. ty tho