Speaking in Tongues

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Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
134
63
#61
I always considered the 'gift of tongues' was the ability to communicate using the spoken word that was given to the spirit of those created in the image and likeness of the Spirit and the Word.

However, I also am aware that many consider that the 'gift of tongues' is referring to a supernatural manifestation and not to the simple ability to communicate using the spoken word. Yet in numerous scriptures the term 'tongues' is used such as
in the Book of Psalms wherein it is written; Nevertheless they did flatter him with their mouth, and they lied unto him with their tongues. Ps 78:36 or in the passage of Jerimiah 23:31, "Behold, I am against the prophets, saith the LORD, that use their tongues, and say, He saith."


Contrary to popular belief, the ability to speak does not come naturally nor can the ability to speak evolve. The ability to communicate by language (words) can only be acquired interactively according to linguistic experts. And this ability can only be acquired to what is call the "critical period' which is that period which children must be exposed to the spoken word, not only by hearing the spoken word but from actually being talked to. Here is a link to the Linguistic Society of America.

So if man evolved from non-speaking primates, then the scientific data represents that man would not have even begin forming a spoken language but rather would have been limited to the communication skills of primates, which cannot speak in tongues. Hence, it is a gift of the Holy Ghost given to the 'man -[both male and female]' made according to Genesis 1:26 who said, "Let us make man in our image after our likeness." (the Spirit and the Word)

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 1 John 5:7

Gen 3:8-10
8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.
9 And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.

Well, that's two mites on the subject...
 
K

KennethC

Guest
#62
And therein lay the problem... satan has so falsified it with muddied waters that many are tossing the baby with the bathwater. Here's a hint: satan doesn't bother to mimic things that are not truths of God.
Yes and I gave the two examples given in scripture in my post for people to read.

I believe in tongues are still used, but if we are lead to think the babbling out loud funny noises is one of them we are mislead.

It is so sad that some people turn their nose up against tongues still being used just because some using a false version.
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
3,590
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#63
Wrong algain! :p

Acts 2v15-21,38,39 clearly teaches that the baptism in the Holy Spirit and ALL the gifts of the Spirit (as listed in 1Cor 12v7-11) are available to the Church throughout the whole of the age of Grace right up until the Second Coming of Christ...

For those interested you might find This a worthwhile read...
Well. If you are right, then why f.e. speaking in tongues was in our time in1905 established in Azuosa street L.A. and spreadt through the world.
But before this time we find speaking in tongues
In sects, by not christian groups and false christs, but not in the common church since end of the apostolic time. In the bibel is not mentioned that we as christians need a second pentecost. If i am wright all the denomonations which foundet during reformation time taught thst the signgifts are stopped. This means in conclusion that all denominations before 1905 were wrong.
In the beginning (1905)they claimed that only those have the Holy Spirit who can speak in togues. The sign of have the holy spirit were screaming, moving and voicing like animals, laughing and so on. Where in the bible we find this as a proof for the holy spirit.
I know how to say somebody who speak in tongues it had stopped is difficult.
I dont believe that speaking in tongues today is from God, in knowing that around 800.000.000 people belong worldwide to pentacost and charismatic movement. I dont want to hurt somebody with my conviction. OF COURSE I CAN BE WRONG, but why then the Holy Spirit makes differences among the denominations in this important matter? I believe all christians have the holy spirit. Then why through the pentecostal movement christianity was splittet?
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#64
Simple..ever see drunk people?..they all act differently..some people react differently to the Holy Spirit when they have Him come upon them...Holy Spirit does not make people act like anything ..it's usually them that are "reacting" to His presence ( well..you can fall down as Paul did and when Jesus in the garden said..it is Me..the romans fell down )

..the jews thought the disciples were all drunk..because of the way they were acting..

Acts 2:14-18 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] But Peter, taking his stand with the eleven, raised his voice and declared to them: "Men of Judea and all you who live in Jerusalem, let this be known to you and give heed to my words.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] "For these men are not drunk, as you suppose, for it is only the third hour of the day;
[SUP]16 [/SUP] but this is what was spoken of through the prophet Joel:
[SUP]17 [/SUP] 'AND IT SHALL BE IN THE LAST DAYS,' God says, 'THAT I WILL POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT ON ALL MANKIND; AND YOUR SONS AND YOUR DAUGHTERS SHALL PROPHESY, AND YOUR YOUNG MEN SHALL SEE VISIONS, AND YOUR OLD MEN SHALL DREAM DREAMS;
[SUP]18 [/SUP] EVEN ON MY BONDSLAVES, BOTH MEN AND WOMEN, I WILL IN THOSE DAYS POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT And they shall prophesy.


Well. If you are right, then why f.e. speaking in tongues was in our time in1905 established in Azuosa street L.A. and spreadt through the world.
But before this time we find speaking in tongues
In sects, by not christian groups and false christs, but not in the common church since end of the apostolic time. In the bibel is not mentioned that we as christians need a second pentecost. If i am wright all the denomonations which foundet during reformation time taught thst the signgifts are stopped. This means in conclusion that all denominations before 1905 were wrong.
In the beginning (1905)they claimed that only those have the Holy Spirit who can speak in togues. The sign of have the holy spirit were screaming, moving and voicing like animals, laughing and so on. Where in the bible we find this as a proof for the holy spirit.
I know how to say somebody who speak in tongues it had stopped is difficult.
I dont believe that speaking in tongues today is from God, in knowing that around 800.000.000 people belong worldwide to pentacost and charismatic movement. I dont want to hurt somebody with my conviction. OF COURSE I CAN BE WRONG, but why then the Holy Spirit makes differences among the denominations in this important matter? I believe all christians have the holy spirit. Then why through the pentecostal movement christianity was splittet?
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
3,590
879
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#66
It's quite obvious you don't know what you're talking about, so "YES", you are wrong! :p

QED!
When i am wrong, than i would be glad if you can answer my questions. That would help me to understand.
 
Oct 21, 2015
2,420
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#67
Well. If you are right, then why f.e. speaking in tongues was in our time in1905 established in Azuosa street L.A. and spreadt through the world.
But before this time we find speaking in tongues
In sects, by not christian groups and false christs, but not in the common church since end of the apostolic time. In the bibel is not mentioned that we as christians need a second pentecost. If i am wright all the denomonations which foundet during reformation time taught thst the signgifts are stopped. This means in conclusion that all denominations before 1905 were wrong.
In the beginning (1905)they claimed that only those have the Holy Spirit who can speak in togues. The sign of have the holy spirit were screaming, moving and voicing like animals, laughing and so on. Where in the bible we find this as a proof for the holy spirit.
I know how to say somebody who speak in tongues it had stopped is difficult.
I dont believe that speaking in tongues today is from God, in knowing that around 800.000.000 people belong worldwide to pentacost and charismatic movement. I dont want to hurt somebody with my conviction. OF COURSE I CAN BE WRONG, but why then the Holy Spirit makes differences among the denominations in this important matter? I believe all christians have the holy spirit. Then why through the pentecostal movement christianity was splittet?
The holy spirit dwells in all christians, but do all christians want the fullness of the spirit that is available to them? People in ALL mainstream denominations believe in the gifts of the spirit for today, but ALL pentecostals/ evangelicals believe in them
Why did tongues significantly resurface 100 years ago?
Probably be cause in the latter days God would bring back to the church what scholars and theologians dismissed as a bygone era.
Great persecution is coming for christians, they need all the help to stand against it God wants them to have
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#68
It's not an either or situation. It is both. Paul makes a distinction between the two... in public they are to be interpreted for the understanding of those assembled (and that includes self interpretation ie hearing your own language from someone who doesn't know it), and in private they are for edification between you and God.

It's not either/or!
and back to my original point, where does Jesus teach what you are saying?
 
Nov 9, 2015
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#69
It's important, in this, to remember context. Paul's letter to the Corinthians was written at a time Paul had recently visited and there was some apprehension, or stress he would return. Paul realized this.

1 Corinthians 10-14 is Paul discussing how Paul ministers, that Paul is correct and that Paul has everyone's best interests in mind. We, as Christians, take Paul's words to be inspired. Therefore, where Paul, in his words, describes Paul's actions, Paul's actions were inspired.

So, you want to act as Paul and minister as Paul? I wouldn't take that interest from you, because indeed I would very much also like to be as Paul. But, it is important to remember we are not Paul. Where his words are inspired and exist in the Word, ours do not. Where Paul's actions, depicted by Paul, are inspired, ours are not always necessarily so.

So we have people emulating Paul, and to an extent that is good, but remember, emulation is not of the source. We are not suddenly Paul, or even "as Paul", just because we "act like Paul". Not all activity which mimics that in scripture is "as scripture". It should not 100% be understood that our actions, which appear as the actions of Paul, are somehow pure, perfect, or even "right".
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#70
John 14:12 - Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

Those were Jesus' words, telling us there was more to come than that which He spoke of and did.
there may be more to come but this passage i do not believe is giving us a green light to add whatever we want to hear.

And Jesus did speak of tongues... did you not read the beginning of this thread?
i never said Jesus did not mention tongues, he did. but He never taught a lesson on them, and never gave details on them as being a divine language. Jesus gives us very detailed teachings on prayer, tongues are never mentioned in these details and prayer is how we communicate with the Father.

I find it amazingly appalling that you would dismiss Paul so easily. I assume then that you've ripped all of his letters out of your Bible, since they evidently mean nothing to you.

Paul is not part of the trinity... but he is part of the Ministry, thru which the trinity spoke.
no one said paul should be dismissed. he was a good teacher. IMO i believe many of the teachings after Jesus have been misunderstood and taken very far into left field and left us with a watered down version of Christianity today. IMO if it can not be confirmed by the Father or the Son then i dont put much focus into it.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#71
There are many things that cannot be explained by using the natural mind. Jesus told the disciples 14 times He was going to die..and they still didn't understand it. We need the Spirit of God to unveil the truth of Christ to us.

1 Corinthians 2:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.
 
Dec 5, 2015
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#72
there may be more to come but this passage i do not believe is giving us a green light to add whatever we want to hear.



i never said Jesus did not mention tongues, he did. but He never taught a lesson on them, and never gave details on them as being a divine language. Jesus gives us very detailed teachings on prayer, tongues are never mentioned in these details and prayer is how we communicate with the Father.



no one said paul should be dismissed. he was a good teacher. IMO i believe many of the teachings after Jesus have been misunderstood and taken very far into left field and left us with a watered down version of Christianity today. IMO if it can not be confirmed by the Father or the Son then i dont put much focus into it.
As I said before, it was not for Jesus to teach a lesson on tongues. That was for His Spirit to do, which He did very well at Pentecost and through Paul as He had to bring correction to those who misused the gift. Holy Spirit continues to teach His people about tongues and all the other special gifts He brings to the family of God.

You need to shake off that unbelief and ask Him to show you the truth. He will do so, gladly, once your barriers are down.

.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#73
Hey...it's a great blessing!

All you tongue talkers out there..is it not a great blessing?

We have a good, good Father1

Luke 11:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?"



As I said before, it was not for Jesus to teach a lesson on tongues. That was for His Spirit to do, which He did very well at Pentecost and through Paul as He had to bring correction to those who misused the gift. Holy Spirit continues to teach His people about tongues and all the other special gifts He brings to the family of God.

You need to shake off that unbelief and ask Him to show you the truth. He will do so, gladly, once your barriers are down.

.
 
A

AboundingGrace

Guest
#74
I agree with these scriptural references.. Rom 8v26-28, 1Cor 14v4, Jude v20,21. There is a bridge verse that connects edification in speaking in tongues, 1 Cor.14:4 and God's love.. it's in 1 Cor.8:1 .."love edifies".

Without God's love expressed through the gifts of the Spirit, Paul was saying in 1Cor.13, there is only arrogance.. in connection with what Jesus said in Jn.6:33 "My words are spirit and life, the flesh profits nothing." So, indeed Heb.10:23; 1Jn.2:5 making continuous confession of God's love at work in us, and Jude:1:20-21 is the way to keep oneself in the love of God.

1) Not so, as great darkness continues to fall upon the earth as the Second Coming of Christ approaches, the gift of tongues is vital to come through it with an overcoming faith, for one of the purposes of the gift of tongues is to edify the believer and build them up in faith and love. Rom 8v26-28, 1Cor 14v4, Jude v20,21

2) Again, not so, it is the greatest of all 9 gifts of the Spirit, as it is the gateway into the manifestation and use of the other 8, Paul valued it MOST highly and indeed his diligent use of it was one of the reason's for his great ministry! 1Cor 14v18, 2Cor 12v11,12

3) Exactly, as you don't exercise this gift how on earth can you make definitive statements about it? (you quite happily reject a beautiful gift that the Lord Jesus obtained at great cost and suffering to Himself by being crucified and descending into Hades! Acts 2v23-31, Rom 10v7, Eph 4v7-16 (esp. v8,9))

4) It is NOT your gift, the gift of the discerning of spirits is given and exercised by God, the Holy Spirit! 1Cor 12v11

(Maybe you mistake the gift of discerning of spirits for the spirit of criticism?)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Aug 15, 2009
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#75
how rude my my
Perhaps..... but considering he didn't read previous statements just above his, & then made a provoking statement to draw fire and counter the discussion shows his motives wasn't exactly kosher. It's his usual demeanor to do that.
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
4,940
589
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#76
...There is a bridge verse that connects edification in speaking in tongues, 1 Cor.14:4 and God's love.. it's in 1 Cor.8:1 .."love edifies".
Paul states in 1Cor 12v31:

"But earnestly desire the best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way."

Then we have 1Cor 13

However, Paul connects 1Cor 12, 13 and 14 in 1Cor 14v1 when he writes:

"Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts..."

The Church needs God's power (via the gifts of the Spirit) to meet the needs of a needy Church and world, and LOVE to minister God's power aright, ie with a pure motive, for power without LOVE is dangerous!

Yahweh Shalom
 
Dec 5, 2015
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#77
Hey...it's a great blessing!

All you tongue talkers out there..is it not a great blessing?

We have a good, good Father1

Luke 11:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?"
Amen...it is a wonderful blessing to have that kind of intimacy with the Father. It is a powerhouse.


.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
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#78
Perhaps..... but considering he didn't read previous statements just above his, & then made a provoking statement to draw fire and counter the discussion shows his motives wasn't exactly kosher. It's his usual demeanor to do that.
I can always count on you to ignore context and content when it comes to scripture.

Charismatics and Pentecostals cannot agree on what constitutes tongues in scripture or in their assemblies. Meaningless babble constitutes tongues in one camp and in another it must be languages. One demands only an interpreter but what they are interpreting is again left to speculation.

Nothing in the modern church resembles the witness of tongues in Acts 2. There are no unsaved Jews in the assemblies for tongues to signify Gods word is being taught for the most part.

So all you are left with is poor biblical exegesis to permit each man to do what is right in his own eyes. Just like the days of Noah.

When Gentiles spoke in tongues in Acts it was a sign to the Jews who were present and later reported back to James and the others in Jerusalem.

If you find scripture provocative then I must rejoice that there is hope for you. You can only cling to your foolishness just so long then it must be given up to the Lord.

Does your definition of tongues include babble or do you seek languages?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Dec 5, 2015
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#79
It is only naysayers who call tongues "babble".


As for me, when I hear tongues spoken, it is a symphony in my ears...just as it is in heaven.


.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#80
I wonder what an angelic tongue would sound like to our natural mind? just sayin'


I can always count on you to ignore context and content when it comes to scripture.

Charismatics and Pentecostals cannot agree on what constitutes tongues in scripture or in their assemblies. Meaningless babble constitutes tongues in one camp and in another it must be languages. One demands only an interpreter but what they are interpreting is again left to speculation.

Nothing in the modern church resembles the witness of tongues in Acts 2. There are no unsaved Jews in the assemblies for tongues to signify Gods word is being taught for the most part.

So all you are left with is poor biblical exegesis to permit each man to do what is right in his own eyes. Just like the days of Noah.

When Gentiles spoke in tongues in Acts it was a sign to the Jews who were present and later reported back to James and the others in Jerusalem.

If you find scripture provocative then I must rejoice that there is hope for you. You can only cling to your foolishness just so long then it must be given up to the Lord.

Does your definition of tongues include babble or do you seek languages?

For the cause of Christ
Roger