Spiritual gifts?

[Allin]

Well written, But, I would remind you that every man is given a measure of Faith and then there is the gift of faith and they are two separate things.

Other than that well done and may God bless you.

Thanks. Yes, there is the measure of faith or Grace, and there is the gift of faith. There are also other kinds of faith. Let me try to differentiate among some of them:

1. Initial saving faith

2. Continual saving faith (work out your salvation)

3. The gift of faith

4. The faith needed to receive <healing, deliverance, blessings> from the Lord

5. The faith that believes for [healing, deliverance, blessings] from the Lord

6. The faith that truly believes not just in God but believes God ("When the Son of Man comes, will He find <this kind of> faith on the earth?")

I bolded numbers 4 and 5 because they are similar:

4. This kind of faith is one everyone has and throws a wrench in the tires of those who say you need the number 5 type of faith to be healed. This is the faith that simply comes to God for healing. It doesn't need to believe He can or will; it just comes. Most in the Bible who received [healings, etc.] had only this type; they simply came to Jesus hoping for healing.

5. This kind of faith we see only a few times in Jesus' ministry, namely with the Centurion, the Canaanite woman, and the woman with the issue of blood. This kind says, "Just say the word and it will be so." No one is required to have this kind to be healed. Isa. 55:1, tucked away in Scripture, tells us that in the Kingdom, you can buy (receive) what you need with money and without money-- i.e. with the number 5 faith or the number 4-- without requirement. Faith is the currency of the Kingdom; you can say you use it to 'buy' from God. However, because Love (not faith) is first in the Kingdom, you can actually buy without money (faith):

"The Lord says, 'All you who are thirsty, come and drink. Those of you who do not have money, come, buy and eat. Come buy wine and milk without money and without cost'" (Isa. 55:1, EXB).

Do you notice the wording? If God wanted to give freely alone, He would say, "Come and receive freely"; but He said, "Come and buy" to those who have no money. This is because in the Kingdom, those who are able and those are unable both receive Grace. It's counter to what is natural, but we see in the NT that both those who had the number 5 faith and the number 4 faith received. Jesus healed a man (to prove that this is the way it works in the Kingdom) who was lame to whom He said, "Do you want to be made whole?" As the man ran through his sob story, the Lord commanded healing into him. So, be aware that there are multiple facets to everything (even in the natural, everything is three-dimensional or more), including faith.

 

[Allin]

Firstly, It was you, not me, who divided people into two classes, you said, 'those who lack faith'. It seems they are contrasted with those who don't. However, I don't see how anything you said here is evidence that those who believe the gifts has ceased, lack faith. You said, "This isn't a class thing where one side is right; it's about believing God's Word in spite of what your brain or history or experience tells you." If it's really about believing God's word then we should seek the truth no matter what doctrines have to go. The Scriptures tell us the purpose of those supernatural gifts and when they that they would end.

Scripture tells us that those gifts were given by the apostles, so since they apostles are dead one has wonder how one would get those gifts. However, as I said, the Scriptures tell us the purpose of those gifts, they were a sign to the leadership in Israel. Paul told us that they would cease.

I said "those who lack faith" which is not a class of people, because no one has faith all the time. We are human; therefore, "those who lack faith" means "when faith is lacking" not your usual "Let's class and divide them up." Rom. 14:1 and 15:1 (really 14-15) says that those who are strong in faith should bear with those who are weak in faith. Apparently, both are found in the same fellowship and are not two different classes.

Please tell me where the Scripture says the gifts would end. Be specific. 1Cor. 13 isn't talking about gifts.

The Bible doesn't say the gifts are given by apostles. I met a false apostle who preaches that and there is nothing godly about him. He smokes like a chimney and runs a cult. The gifts continue into eternity. Paul never said they would cease. 1Cor. 13 is not saying that gifts would cease. Think about it: Jesus is the perfect. If He is perfect, then how can the things He gives be retracted? He didn't retract lucifer's own gifts (and that would have been a good idea if we were to be honest); why would He retract gifts that give the Church the ability to fight against and withstand lucifer who still has his own gifts? I'll be waiting to hear back from you on this.

 

[Allin]

How do we distinguish between a natural talent and a Spiritual gift? I'm all for using any natural talent you possess for Gods glory but there are Spiritual gifts given by the Holy Spirit that go beyond what we can do of our own volition.

Only three specific gifts have ceased and these are sign gifts which by their nature apply to the Jews not the Gentiles. These appear to be the most abused of all the gifts because they are highly sought after.

I think a lot of folks want Spiritual gifts and go so far as to interpret many natural things as Spiritual gifts.

Daily one ought to surrender to the Lords will and do what ever their hand findeth to do hardily and as unto the Lord.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

To differentiate between spiritual and natural gifts, you have to research it for yourself. There are many teachings on this, and if you check several out, you get an overall of what is spiritual and what isn't.

The sign gifts didn't cease. Casting demons would go under those as would healing and miracles. I've seen all those. If you claim the Bible says something, you must back it up with where the Bible shows it. There is the witness and the testimony or the first witness and the witness who ratifies the first one. The Bible says that by two (different) things, every matter is established. If the Bible says something and doesn't show it, then there is only one witness. If it says something, it will also show it. If you can't find where the Bible shows that the gifts are gone, your argument is void. Even Jesus needed a witness (the Father through the Holy Spirit); you can't really think that you can make a claim and without a witness have it confirmed as the truth.

 

[Allin]

I have been blessed with God with a tremendous talent since my youth. I have an excellent talent for drawing; To me, it is a spiritual gift (Because I believe it comes from God). However, I can only draw under inspiration. If somebody tells me to draw something, it is very difficult for me to do that. My heart and soul goes into every drawing that I do. I always loved comic books growing up as a kid. Especially Marvel Comics. So my artwork style tends to lean in that direction. Anyways, God has called it upon my heart to draw again. So after I have completed my commentaries on All the Stories in the Bible and my Commentaries on the New Testament Commands, I plan to create two specific art projects for God. They are both unique projects that I have not seen before. So I am very excited. For now, the project details are top secret to the public. But I look forward to glorifying Jesus Christ with the talent He has given to me since my youth.

That actually happens, Jason: a natural talent breathed on spiritually making it hard to place it under natural or spiritual. In the OT, sometimes the prophets could only prophesy when music was played. This facet of gifts you mention is very important. God wants Christians funtional in the world-- the marketplace, school, college, etc.-- not hiding inside church buildings. He breathes on and gives natural gifts for this purpose.

An example of how practical this thing really is is this: a Christian is at the grocery store and someone has an accident and hurts themselves. They call the medics, but the Lord begins to lead the Christian to go heal the person. When they get to the person, the Lord gives them a short song, and they sing it. As they sing, the person is healed. We will be seeing this practical and effortless type of Christianity. We limit ourselves and place restrictions on the Lord, but when He finds people that will not restrict Him, He will literally flow from them like rivers of living water as He said He would in John. I know I sing better when the Lord is present. I hope your drawing will be blessed and will be a blessing. (I draw too by the way. Used to do a lot of Marvel and comics but I prefer drawing actual people.)

 

[notuptome]

To differentiate between spiritual and natural gifts, you have to research it for yourself. There are many teachings on this, and if you check several out, you get an overall of what is spiritual and what isn't.

I did not ask the question for my benefit but for yours.

The sign gifts didn't cease. Casting demons would go under those as would healing and miracles. I've seen all those. If you claim the Bible says something, you must back it up with where the Bible shows it. There is the witness and the testimony or the first witness and the witness who ratifies the first one. The Bible says that by two (different) things, every matter is established. If the Bible says something and doesn't show it, then there is only one witness. If it says something, it will also show it. If you can't find where the Bible shows that the gifts are gone, your argument is void. Even Jesus needed a witness (the Father through the Holy Spirit); you can't really think that you can make a claim and without a witness have it confirmed as the truth.

Even if we assume you are correct and that is far from certain then the sign gifts are for Israel and not for Gentiles.

Jesus did many miracles in His early ministry but very few at the close of His ministry. Why?

If souls are brought to Christ through the declaration of Gods word then what purpose would signs and miracles provide?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Well written, But, I would remind you that every man is given a measure of Faith and then there is the gift of faith and they are two separate things.

Other than that well done and may God bless you.

GOD is just,and if that is true and it is true then wouldn't it be correct to say that GOD has given every man the measure of faith.
I'm not trying to start a war my brother,i just didn't want people to think that GOD gives some more faith than others.

 

[4enlightment]

Hi everyone.. I hope everyone is blessed today

I have a question.. how do you know what your Gift from God is? And how do we work in them?

Do you know what your gift is?

Thank you God bless.

The gifts is our abilities that God gives us. Paul had the ability to teach the Gentiles.

 

[Apostol2013]

I think you are referring to the spiritual gifts listed in 1 Cor chapters 12-14, again in 4-5 verses in Ephesians, and possibly in a couple of verses in Romans. Unfortunately, due to passages like the very end of Matthew 7, believing that Jesus is your Lord, and believing that the signs and wonders that you perform are from God does not guarantee that you ever really were a Christian.

Most Christians who have done research into the dating of the manuscripts believe that 1 Cor. was one of the earliest written manuscripts, along with Ephesians and Romans. That 2 of the documents mention when they cease, pass away, or the point they are given "until" but no further, indicates to some that the gifts, ALL of them, were for the infant church where we had thousands of converts, most from pagan background, and no New Testament writings whatsoever, and that the gifts, signs, wonders, were for the period when scripture was being written only. They do have the same purpose, after all, so that the man of God can be fully equipped for every good work / for equipping and building up of the body of Christ.

Also, after some study on the issue, I am somewhat convinced that God will send whatever people need to have to believe their beliefs are "truth" if they do not receive a love of the truth. Passages like 2 Thes. 2:10-13 seem to indicate this. (While the first section is definitely about the lost who will believe error in the end times, the first word in verse 13, "but" indicates that Paul compared the Christians alive in his day via the exact same test, and that they did receive a love of the truth and did end up "believing" the truth.

This seems to fit with what God has done in the past (O.T.) in sending deceiving or deluding influences as well. The point is, if you love your beliefs so much that you don't ever want to consider anything else, you get whatever you need.

Let me know if this is the kind of information you want to look at. If so, maybe I can fill in some of the gaps.

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

 

[Apostol2013]

1Co 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
1Co 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
1Co 13:3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
1Co 13:4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
1Co 13:5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
1Co 13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
1Co 13:7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
1Co 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
1Co 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
1Co 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
You see that wich is perfect has not come there are so many disentions for lack of understanding a lack of faith a lack of belief because of the carnal understanding , for we know that christ came to baptize with holy spirit and fire and we know the giftings are there till the millenium sets in because when that wich is perfect is when Christ is among us and we are in their new resurected bodies no more need for wonders for God will be with us on earth and that is only the oppening act for the coming truth when heaven and earth shall pass and all will be made new .. it is written man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds from God . be not resistant but come in as a child for christ said unless you become a child you in no wise enter His kingdom let it not be a gift only basis but of the pure word for the word is spirit indeed for it proceeds from the holy spirit and allso with power for the propper balance is with word holy spirit and power , The Lord loves proper balances and measures .

 

[Butch5]

I said "those who lack faith" which is not a class of people, because no one has faith all the time. We are human; therefore, "those who lack faith" means "when faith is lacking" not your usual "Let's class and divide them up." Rom. 14:1 and 15:1 (really 14-15) says that those who are strong in faith should bear with those who are weak in faith. Apparently, both are found in the same fellowship and are not two different classes.

Please tell me where the Scripture says the gifts would end. Be specific. 1Cor. 13 isn't talking about gifts.

The Bible doesn't say the gifts are given by apostles. I met a false apostle who preaches that and there is nothing godly about him. He smokes like a chimney and runs a cult. The gifts continue into eternity. Paul never said they would cease. 1Cor. 13 is not saying that gifts would cease. Think about it: Jesus is the perfect. If He is perfect, then how can the things He gives be retracted? He didn't retract lucifer's own gifts (and that would have been a good idea if we were to be honest); why would He retract gifts that give the Church the ability to fight against and withstand lucifer who still has his own gifts? I'll be waiting to hear back from you on this.

What we think ought or ought not to happen doesn't change anything. As I said in my previous post, Scripture tells us that the gifts were signs and wonders to Israel. They were announcing the coming judgment. When the Jews say the Gentiles speaking in tongues and healing and the like they should have realized that judgment was coming because the Scriptures told them that these signs would come and that judgment would follow.

Yes, Paul said the gifts would cease in 1 Cor 13. He said when the perfect comes the gifts would cease. However, the perfect is not Jesus. The Greek word that is translated perfect means mature or complete, it doesn't mean flawless as the English word perfect suggests. Paul said, 'we know in part and we prophesy in part'. When the completion or maturity comes then they are no longer in part but complete.

Paul also said that prophesy, knowledge, and tongues would cease, but, three things would continue. The three that continue are, faith, hope, and love. Paul told the Roman Christians that hope that is seen is not hope. When Jesus returns He will be seen thus there is no longer a need to hope. Paul also said,

1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. (Heb 11:1 KJV)

When Jesus returns He will be seen, thus faith is realized. So,these two aren't necessary when Jesus returns yet Paul said they would continue after the completion came. Thus Jesus is not the perfect that Paul is referring to.

Yes, the Bible does say the Gifts were given through the apostles.

14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: 15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: 16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) 17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost. 18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money, 19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost. (Act 8:1 KJV)

If you look through the New Testament you'll find that every time someone received the gifts it there was an apostle there.

The gifts were given for a purpose and that purpose was a sign to Israel.

11 For the LORD spoke thus to me with a strong hand, and instructed me that I should not walk in the way of this people, saying:
12 "Do not say,`A conspiracy,' Concerning all that this people call a conspiracy, Nor be afraid of their threats, nor be troubled.
13 The LORD of hosts, Him you shall hallow; Let Him be your fear, And let Him be your dread.
14 He will be as a sanctuary, But a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense To both the houses of Israel, As a trap and a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
15 And many among them shall stumble; They shall fall and be broken, Be snared and taken."
16 Bind up the testimony, Seal the law among my disciples.
17 And I will wait on the LORD, Who hides His face from the house of Jacob; And I will hope in Him.
18 Here am I and the children whom the LORD has given me! We are for signs and wonders in Israel From the LORD of hosts, Who dwells in Mount Zion.
19 And when they say to you, "Seek those who are mediums and wizards, who whisper and mutter," should not a people seek their God? Should they seek the dead on behalf of the living?
20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
21 They will pass through it hard pressed and hungry; and it shall happen, when they are hungry, that they will be enraged and curse their king and their God, and look upward.
22 Then they will look to the earth, and see trouble and darkness, gloom of anguish; and they will be driven into darkness. (Isa 8:11-22 NKJ)

 

[JesusLives]

Singing love to
Gift of laughter
Happiness to give and to share
Sharing the truth of God's word
Making Friends

 

[The_highwayman]

What we think ought or ought not to happen doesn't change anything. As I said in my previous post, Scripture tells us that the gifts were signs and wonders to Israel. They were announcing the coming judgment. When the Jews say the Gentiles speaking in tongues and healing and the like they should have realized that judgment was coming because the Scriptures told them that these signs would come and that judgment would follow.

Yes, Paul said the gifts would cease in 1 Cor 13. He said when the perfect comes the gifts would cease. However, the perfect is not Jesus. The Greek word that is translated perfect means mature or complete, it doesn't mean flawless as the English word perfect suggests. Paul said, 'we know in part and we prophesy in part'. When the completion or maturity comes then they are no longer in part but complete.

Paul also said that prophesy, knowledge, and tongues would cease, but, three things would continue. The three that continue are, faith, hope, and love. Paul told the Roman Christians that hope that is seen is not hope. When Jesus returns He will be seen thus there is no longer a need to hope. Paul also said,

1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. (Heb 11:1 KJV)

When Jesus returns He will be seen, thus faith is realized. So,these two aren't necessary when Jesus returns yet Paul said they would continue after the completion came. Thus Jesus is not the perfect that Paul is referring to.

Yes, the Bible does say the Gifts were given through the apostles.

14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: 15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: 16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) 17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost. 18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money, 19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost. (Act 8:1 KJV)

If you look through the New Testament you'll find that every time someone received the gifts it there was an apostle there.

The gifts were given for a purpose and that purpose was a sign to Israel.

11 For the LORD spoke thus to me with a strong hand, and instructed me that I should not walk in the way of this people, saying:
12 "Do not say,`A conspiracy,' Concerning all that this people call a conspiracy, Nor be afraid of their threats, nor be troubled.
13 The LORD of hosts, Him you shall hallow; Let Him be your fear, And let Him be your dread.
14 He will be as a sanctuary, But a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense To both the houses of Israel, As a trap and a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
15 And many among them shall stumble; They shall fall and be broken, Be snared and taken."
16 Bind up the testimony, Seal the law among my disciples.
17 And I will wait on the LORD, Who hides His face from the house of Jacob; And I will hope in Him.
18 Here am I and the children whom the LORD has given me! We are for signs and wonders in Israel From the LORD of hosts, Who dwells in Mount Zion.
19 And when they say to you, "Seek those who are mediums and wizards, who whisper and mutter," should not a people seek their God? Should they seek the dead on behalf of the living?
20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
21 They will pass through it hard pressed and hungry; and it shall happen, when they are hungry, that they will be enraged and curse their king and their God, and look upward.
22 Then they will look to the earth, and see trouble and darkness, gloom of anguish; and they will be driven into darkness. (Isa 8:11-22 NKJ)

So if they were given only to Israel why do we see the gifts being used by Peter & Paul and then other gentiles using them?

Who knew 1 & 2 Corinthians was written to the Jews!?!?

 

[The_highwayman]

Yes, the Bible does say the Gifts were given through the apostles.

14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: 15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: 16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) 17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost. 18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money, 19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost. (Act 8:1 KJV)

Keep going and read Acts chapter 9.

Ananias laid hands on Saul, who became Paul and then Saul also received the Holy Ghost! Ananias was also used in the gift of healing Saul's blindness...

Ananias was not an Apostle.

 

[Butch5]

Keep going and read Acts chapter 9.

Ananias laid hands on Saul, who became Paul and then Saul also received the Holy Ghost! Ananias was also used in the gift of healing Saul's blindness...

Ananias was not an Apostle.

Yes, Ananias was an apostle. The word apostolos means, a messenger, a delegate, one sent with orders. Ananias was specifically sent by Jesus. He wasn't one of the twelve but He was sent by Jesus thus he was an apostle.

10 Now there was a certain disciple at Damascus named Ananias; and to him the Lord said in a vision, "Ananias." And he said, "Here I am, Lord."
11 So the Lord said to him, "Arise and go to the street called Straight, and inquire at the house of Judas for one called Saul of Tarsus, for behold, he is praying.
12 "And in a vision he has seen a man named Ananias coming in and putting his hand on him, so that he might receive his sight."
13 Then Ananias answered, "Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much harm he has done to Your saints in Jerusalem.
14 "And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on Your name."
15 But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel.
16 "For I will show him how many things he must suffer for My name's sake."
17 And Ananias went his way and entered the house; and laying his hands on him he said, "Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus1, who appeared to you on the road as you came, has sent me that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit." (Act 9:10-17 NKJ)

Notice that Ananias laid his hands on Paul and Paul received his sight and received the Holy Spirit.

 

[Butch5]

So if they were given only to Israel why do we see the gifts being used by Peter & Paul and then other gentiles using them?

Who knew 1 & 2 Corinthians was written to the Jews!?!?

I did't say they were given only to Israel. I said they were a sign to Israel, particularly the leadership of Israel

 

[The_highwayman]

Yes, Ananias was an apostle. The word apostolos means, a messenger, a delegate, one sent with orders. Ananias was specifically sent by Jesus. He wasn't one of the twelve but He was sent by Jesus thus he was an apostle.

10 Now there was a certain disciple at Damascus named Ananias; and to him the Lord said in a vision, "Ananias." And he said, "Here I am, Lord."
11 So the Lord said to him, "Arise and go to the street called Straight, and inquire at the house of Judas for one called Saul of Tarsus, for behold, he is praying.
12 "And in a vision he has seen a man named Ananias coming in and putting his hand on him, so that he might receive his sight."
13 Then Ananias answered, "Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much harm he has done to Your saints in Jerusalem.
14 "And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on Your name."
15 But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel.
16 "For I will show him how many things he must suffer for My name's sake."
17 And Ananias went his way and entered the house; and laying his hands on him he said, "Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus1, who appeared to you on the road as you came, has sent me that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit." (Act 9:10-17 NKJ)

Notice that Ananias laid his hands on Paul and Paul received his sight and received the Holy Spirit.

The Bible says Ananias was a disciple, not an Apostle.

10 Now there was a certain disciple at Damascus named Ananias; and to him the Lord said in a vision, "Ananias." And he said, "Here I am, Lord."

Stop spinning butch...its not an issue if you want to castrate the power of the Holy Ghost for today, but I wont go there...

 

[prove-all]

I believe everyone is given equil that first gift to see what they do with it.

12He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country
to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.


13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds,
and said unto them, Occupy till I come.


14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying,
We will not have this man to reign over us.

I believe this parable is about the holy spirit given in measures.

14For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country,
who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.
15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one;
to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.

21Unto me men gave ear, and waited, and kept silence at my counsel.
22After my words they spake not again; and my speech dropped upon them.
And they waited for me as for the rain; and they opened their mouth wide as for the latter rain.

Ask ye of the Lord rain in the time of the latter rain; so the Lord shall make bright clouds,
and give them showers of rain, to every one grass in the field.
​

Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord.
Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it,
until he receive the early and latter rain.

​

And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh;
and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams,
your young men shall see visions:
And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

5I have made the earth, the man and the beast that are upon the ground, (by my great power)
and by my outstretched arm, (and have given it) (unto whom it seemed meet unto me).

8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you:
and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria,

and unto the uttermost part of the earth.


​

 

[OnThisRock]

Sometimes you will know God is putting a certain gift within you, when suddenly, what you do comes natural. But in 5 years of following the Lord, I have seen Him change it up, or rather use certain gifts as I exercise my faith. This has been different with certain jobs, with friends, or other areas of my life. God does some amazing things,and its just all about Him. I had a counseling job, and I saw Him using my testmony for healing, or I would see Him talking the lies off of people just by sharing my testimony in counseling. He makes you who you are and uses your flaws and turns them around to help others. Just do your thing, daily, and watch God work. It's amazing. Suddenly I am in another country and He is using the oppression I experienced in the U.S. for people here in this country. He can do whatever He wants, and following Him, although not easy, is definitely a great RIDE!!!

 

[Allin]

If souls are brought to Christ through the declaration of Gods word then what purpose would signs and miracles provide?

Your statement above nullifies your line of reasoning. Read it again, then read this: "Every matter must be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses" (Deut. 17:6, 2Cor. 13:1). Any Christian who is a lawyer is more prepared to understand spiritual laws than the average Christian. Regarding law, you have to stay within the lines or boundaries or suffer consequences. If your only witness (supposedly) is the Word, then your argument won't stand in court. Literally.

You said, "If souls are brought to Christ through the declaration of God's word then what purpose would signs and miracles provide?" Signs and miracles are given as the second witness to establish that the Word received is in fact truth. In chess, we call that checkmate. You put yourself right into the hands of Scripture that is rightfully divided, and the Word put you in checkmate. Your only supposed witness is the Word, but the Word always defeats our beliefs, because the Word has witnesses (plural), namely the Father and the Holy Spirit.

It's not for Christians only the Word (instruction) never was to be; it's the Word plus the Spirit (the supernatural that enables us to obey the Word). The Bible is replete with this spiritual law. You need two or more witnesses to certify a thing; therefore, if God's Word comes alone, then there is no witness to confirm it, and people can rightfully reject it. Please think about the law of witness (and of advocacy) before you reply.

Jesus Christ is the One who came by water [likely a reference to Jesus' baptism] and blood [a reference to His death]. He did not come by water only, but by water only, but by water and blood. And the Spirit says that this is true [is the One who testifies/bears witness; Mk. 1:11; Jn. 1:32-34], because the Spirit is the truth. So [or For] there are three witnesses [who testify/bear witness]: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three witnesses agree [are One].

We believe people when they say something is true. But what God says is more important [if we accept the witness/testimony of people, the witness/testimony of God is better]. (1Jn. 5:6-9, EXB.)

 

[Allin]

What we think ought or ought not to happen doesn't change anything. As I said in my previous post, Scripture tells us that the gifts were signs and wonders to Israel. They were announcing the coming judgment. When the Jews say the Gentiles speaking in tongues and healing and the like they should have realized that judgment was coming because the Scriptures told them that these signs would come and that judgment would follow.

Yes, Paul said the gifts would cease in 1 Cor 13. He said when the perfect comes the gifts would cease. However, the perfect is not Jesus. The Greek word that is translated perfect means mature or complete, it doesn't mean flawless as the English word perfect suggests. Paul said, 'we know in part and we prophesy in part'. When the completion or maturity comes then they are no longer in part but complete...

Too much to go over. Whole truth only comes with whole teaching (i.e. teaching plus the power of the Holy Spirit). Anything less is unwhole or partial. The Spirit fell on people on whom the apostles didn't lay hands. I will just say this: you are only 52. I believe you will be around when these signs and gifts that supposedly ceased and that only apostles supposedly can give begin to manifest once again. Amen to that.