Study on Apostasy.

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Apr 15, 2017
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#81
1Co 9:25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
1Co 9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
1Co 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

adokimos
ad-ok'-ee-mos
From G1 (as a negative particle) and G1384; unapproved, that is, rejected; by implication worthless (literally or morally): - castaway, rejected, reprobate.

This is the definition of castaway that Paul said would be his position if he did not keep under his body,and bring it in to subjection,which he is obviously talking of keeping his body in check,and cease it from sinning,and if he did not he would be a castaway,rejected,worthless,and reprobate,which does not sound good,and sounds like eternal consequences,not oops I did not get that crown.

And also is states every man must strive so I believe that uncorruptible crown would have to be given unto all the saints,for how can the corruptible one be given them,and then say it has nothing to do with my salvation,and how can they not receive the uncorruptible crown,and be saved,for of course all the saints receiving salvation would be uncorrupted,for there is no corruption with them,so they all receive that crown.

2Ti 4:8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

The crown of righteousness is given to all the saints,for would not all the saints love His appearing.

Jas 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

The crown of life is given to all the saints,for would not all the saints love Jesus.

Also notice that it states blessed is the man that endures temptation,for when he is tried,he shall receive the crown of life,which obviously,without a doubt,means,blessed is the person that endures temptation,and beats temptation and does not sin,they shall receive the crown of life.

It sure cannot mean if you are tempted you shall receive the crown of life,regardless if you beat the temptation or not,for everybody gets tempted,even the world,but it means when you are tempted,and you endure it,you put up with it,you do not give in to it,and you beat it,and do not sin,those are the people that shall receive the crown of life,not as a prize,or gift,but is given to all who love Jesus,and do not all the saints love Jesus,for it is obvious that to love Jesus is to endure temptation,and do not sin.

You do not abstain from sin,and hold unto sin thinking it does not affect your relationship with Christ,you will not receive the crown of life,which is not a prize,or gift,for certain saints,but eternal life,for it is given to all the saints that love Christ,and you cannot have eternal life unless you love Christ.

Are some going to be in heaven,and they did not receive the crown of life,and some did,for it is a prize,or a gift,as some say,but not eternal life,for those that receive the crown of life love Jesus,and would there be some there with Jesus that did not receive the crown of life that do not love Jesus,but are still saved.

The crown of life is eternal life given to all those who love the Lord,and you cannot get that crown of life unless you endure temptation,and beat it,and do not sin,for those who think sin does not affect their relationship with Christ,for there is more than one way to look at it in scriptures that states,abstain from sin,since they do not want to believe the obvious,plain as day,all up in your face,a Spirit led life will abstain from sin.

They try to take away everything that has the possibility of putting pressure on them,discomfort,the possibility that they might not make it to heaven,do not have to abstain from sin to be right with Christ,do not have to do works,no responsibility,for if there is the remote possibility that they have an inkling of a choice in the matter of salvation,or responsibility,they go against it like a school of piranha and rip it to shreds.

God said He wants all people to repent,come to the truth,and be saved,and He is the Savior of all men,and Jesus lights every person that comes in to this world,and the Spirit and bride say,anyone that wants that salvation can have it.

But they say Nay,but God chooses who will be saved,and not saved.

God had the plan to give mankind salvation before He laid down the foundation of the world,so it is the same as if the saints have that salvation in the beginning,and that salvation is to whoever wants it,like the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world,and the prophets blood shed from the foundation of the world,but they were future events,and did not actually happen in the beginning.

Faith alone,not saved by works,when we initially confess Christ,for we are in the flesh,and that is all we can do is have faith,and our works do not measure up.

A person is justified by works and not faith alone,after they receive the Spirit,for we are then spiritual,and the responsibility falls on us,and these are not works of the flesh,but the Spirit.

Many are called but few are chosen,so God does the calling and choosing on earth,for if God chose who would be saved,and not saved,in the beginning,then all that He called would be chosen,and if God chose who will not be saved,why is He calling people that cannot be saved,for many are called but few chosen,so a lot that are called are not chosen,so why is God calling them if they cannot be chosen.

It is obvious that we have a choice,and God calls many but not all of them make it to be chosen.God calls us,works with us to get us to the truth,but we have to decide to open the door.

God does the calling and choosing on earth,for He wants all people to repent,come to the truth,and be saved,and He is the Savior of all men,and the Spirit,and the bride,say Come,and all can have that salvation,but if they say God chooses who will be saved,and not saved,then how can they be part of the bride when they say not everybody can have that salvation,for the choice is already made for them.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,784
4,453
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#82
Also that is the whole problem with many churches is they always preach on the fun popular subjects just to fill the seats.

But gosh forbid mention hell, satan, homosexual, drunken, idolatry, you name it. America has gotten the way it is because the church has rolled over for so long and been silent on hard issues for so long.

How about preach the whole gospel.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,784
4,453
113
#83
1Co 9:25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
1Co 9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
1Co 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

adokimos
ad-ok'-ee-mos
From G1 (as a negative particle) and G1384; unapproved, that is, rejected; by implication worthless (literally or morally): - castaway, rejected, reprobate.

This is the definition of castaway that Paul said would be his position if he did not keep under his body,and bring it in to subjection,which he is obviously talking of keeping his body in check,and cease it from sinning,and if he did not he would be a castaway,rejected,worthless,and reprobate,which does not sound good,and sounds like eternal consequences,not oops I did not get that crown.

And also is states every man must strive so I believe that uncorruptible crown would have to be given unto all the saints,for how can the corruptible one be given them,and then say it has nothing to do with my salvation,and how can they not receive the uncorruptible crown,and be saved,for of course all the saints receiving salvation would be uncorrupted,for there is no corruption with them,so they all receive that crown.

2Ti 4:8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

The crown of righteousness is given to all the saints,for would not all the saints love His appearing.

Jas 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

The crown of life is given to all the saints,for would not all the saints love Jesus.

Also notice that it states blessed is the man that endures temptation,for when he is tried,he shall receive the crown of life,which obviously,without a doubt,means,blessed is the person that endures temptation,and beats temptation and does not sin,they shall receive the crown of life.

It sure cannot mean if you are tempted you shall receive the crown of life,regardless if you beat the temptation or not,for everybody gets tempted,even the world,but it means when you are tempted,and you endure it,you put up with it,you do not give in to it,and you beat it,and do not sin,those are the people that shall receive the crown of life,not as a prize,or gift,but is given to all who love Jesus,and do not all the saints love Jesus,for it is obvious that to love Jesus is to endure temptation,and do not sin.

You do not abstain from sin,and hold unto sin thinking it does not affect your relationship with Christ,you will not receive the crown of life,which is not a prize,or gift,for certain saints,but eternal life,for it is given to all the saints that love Christ,and you cannot have eternal life unless you love Christ.

Are some going to be in heaven,and they did not receive the crown of life,and some did,for it is a prize,or a gift,as some say,but not eternal life,for those that receive the crown of life love Jesus,and would there be some there with Jesus that did not receive the crown of life that do not love Jesus,but are still saved.

The crown of life is eternal life given to all those who love the Lord,and you cannot get that crown of life unless you endure temptation,and beat it,and do not sin,for those who think sin does not affect their relationship with Christ,for there is more than one way to look at it in scriptures that states,abstain from sin,since they do not want to believe the obvious,plain as day,all up in your face,a Spirit led life will abstain from sin.

They try to take away everything that has the possibility of putting pressure on them,discomfort,the possibility that they might not make it to heaven,do not have to abstain from sin to be right with Christ,do not have to do works,no responsibility,for if there is the remote possibility that they have an inkling of a choice in the matter of salvation,or responsibility,they go against it like a school of piranha and rip it to shreds.

God said He wants all people to repent,come to the truth,and be saved,and He is the Savior of all men,and Jesus lights every person that comes in to this world,and the Spirit and bride say,anyone that wants that salvation can have it.

But they say Nay,but God chooses who will be saved,and not saved.

God had the plan to give mankind salvation before He laid down the foundation of the world,so it is the same as if the saints have that salvation in the beginning,and that salvation is to whoever wants it,like the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world,and the prophets blood shed from the foundation of the world,but they were future events,and did not actually happen in the beginning.

Faith alone,not saved by works,when we initially confess Christ,for we are in the flesh,and that is all we can do is have faith,and our works do not measure up.

A person is justified by works and not faith alone,after they receive the Spirit,for we are then spiritual,and the responsibility falls on us,and these are not works of the flesh,but the Spirit.

Many are called but few are chosen,so God does the calling and choosing on earth,for if God chose who would be saved,and not saved,in the beginning,then all that He called would be chosen,and if God chose who will not be saved,why is He calling people that cannot be saved,for many are called but few chosen,so a lot that are called are not chosen,so why is God calling them if they cannot be chosen.

It is obvious that we have a choice,and God calls many but not all of them make it to be chosen.God calls us,works with us to get us to the truth,but we have to decide to open the door.

God does the calling and choosing on earth,for He wants all people to repent,come to the truth,and be saved,and He is the Savior of all men,and the Spirit,and the bride,say Come,and all can have that salvation,but if they say God chooses who will be saved,and not saved,then how can they be part of the bride when they say not everybody can have that salvation,for the choice is already made for them.
Amen brother im glad to see someone actually studied lol
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#84
But teaching the bible falsely is also a bad thing to do. I aint forcing no one to enter my thread of personal study. I study this for my own good. If anyone joins then thats because of their own interest.

No one is condemning anyone to hell. Feeling condemned is Gods work through his word to create repentance.

You say preach the gospel but forget falling away, apostasy, and hell is part of the gospel. I in my personal study have grasped the elementary teachings so i have been moving on to deeper scripture.

In real life all i focus on to others is Jesus. And if they happen to move on from infancy then i will help them understand more mature scripture on being a disciple.
IMO. Preaching and teaching that believers go to hell is not the gospel nor does it have anything to do with maturity in Christ and it completely the opposite of what scripture says to do to grow in the Lord.

It's the goodness of God that brings us to repentance. It's the hearing of Christ's love and grace that brings forth fruit in believer's lives.

Feeling condemned is not God's work - that is the work of religion. God does not use condemnation, guilt or shame in the New Covenant and He doesn't contract it out to the devil either.

I encourage you to preach Christ and His love and grace for people. Preach the gospel and people's lives will be changed. Preaching hell to believers does the exact opposite and brings condemnation and despair and hopelessness to believers.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,784
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#85
IMO. Preaching and teaching that believers go to hell is not the gospel nor does it have anything to do with maturity in Christ and it completely the opposite of what scripture says to do to grow in the Lord.

It's the goodness of God that brings us to repentance. It's the hearing of Christ's love and grace that brings forth fruit in believer's lives.

Feeling condemned is not God's work - that is the work of religion. God does not use condemnation, guilt or shame in the New Covenant and He doesn't contract it out to the devil either.

I encourage you to preach Christ and His love and grace for people. Preach the gospel and people's lives will be changed. Preaching hell to believers does the exact opposite and brings condemnation and despair and hopelessness to believers.
Man just because i try to get across part of the gospel you dont teach properly doesn't mean thats all i focus on.

You only see it because i am constantly having to correct you and others who believe the same as you.

Trust me I so wish i could focus on the easy stuff but when you and others wont teach the whole truth. Someone has to.

Like it or not apostasy, heaven and hell is part of the gospel.

Until the whole gospel is taught then i wont have to do it for you.

The whole purpose of the law is to do what?make us know right and wrong and to make us feel bad for our sins which leads to repentance.

You say relegion but its scripture. I have shown it above but you only ignore it or deny it as truth. Godly sorrow leads to repentance.

I cant get over you trying to say that speaking on hell is not part of the gospel. Lol

What you are trying to say is you disagree with my stance against irresistible grace and OSAS. Because then what my whole thread is about, filled with evidence, would go against your core beliefs. And that makes anyone uneasy and oh so fast to say I am speaking ungospel.

When in fact everything i have pulled from has been from the gospel.
 
Dec 3, 2016
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#86
I.e. if you are predestined to be saved, the warnings about apostasy will have the positive effect on you.
Yeah like put to death the deeds of the flesh and actually walk with the Lord!

Romans 8:13,14
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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#87
Man just because i try to get across part of the gospel you dont teach properly doesn't mean thats all i focus on.

You only see it because i am constantly having to correct you and others who believe the same as you.

Trust me I so wish i could focus on the easy stuff but when you and others wont teach the whole truth. Someone has to.

Like it or not apostasy, heaven and hell is part of the gospel.

Until the whole gospel is taught then i wont have to do it for you.
Do you mean until the whole council of God is taught? The gospel is not about apostasy. The gospel is not about believing that you can or can't lose your salvation.

The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation for everyone who BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16).

Paul tells us in 1 Corinthians 15:2 that we are saved by the gospel if you hold fast that word which I preached to you--unless you believed in vain. To believe in vain is to believe without cause or without effect, to no purpose. If, as some are saying in Corinth, there is no resurrection, then faith is vain and worthless (vs. 14).
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#88
Do you mean until the whole council of God is taught? The gospel is not about apostasy. The gospel is not about believing that you can or can't lose your salvation.

The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation for everyone who BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16).

Paul tells us in 1 Corinthians 15:2 that we are saved by the gospel if you hold fast that word which I preached to you--unless you believed in vain. To believe in vain is to believe without cause or without effect, to no purpose. If, as some are saying in Corinth, there is no resurrection, then faith is vain and worthless (vs. 14).

I agree....and the warnings in scripture do have a place.

They have a place "after" the foundation of the truth gospel of Christ is in place. Without the proper nutrients of God's love and grace firmly entrenched in believers minds and hearts - we can build on a false foundation and then try to "dictate" the warnings to people that they will go to hell now.

It does the complete opposite of what the purpose of the warnings are for.

There is no greater revelation then to know the love of Christ and thus be filled up with the fullness of God. Paul prayed this to the Father for the Christians in Eph. 3:14-19 . He didn't pray that they would love God more. That's religion.

Walking after the flesh will bring destruction in many forms. Take up shooting heroin in our arms and the reality of destruction will come quickly.

We need to learn how to walk by the spirit and we cannot do that without the foundation of Christ Himself - His finished work on the cross and being rooted and grounded in Him. Then the warnings will have their purpose but to be constantly preaching that believers are going to hell is not the gospel in any way shape or form.
 
Aug 15, 2009
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#89
I agree in a sense that to fall away, one must fall from somewhere of higher position.

But wouldn't call anyone a idiot as to that is saying they are beyond the capabilities to understand.

I do not see that in anyone having the Spirit. God enlightens people in his time and some are more open to seeing scripture than others. I guess less lies, bias, or ingrained imprintation of old infancy believes that are not quite right.

We are still one body doing the same thing trying to save souls
I would partially agree with this.

However, some are ignorant by lack of education, & others because they refuse the truth.

So, those that refuse knowledge aren't even in the body. That is indeed idiotic.

Sorry if that sounded a little mean.
 
Aug 15, 2009
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#90
My point is my posts above was not posted from lack of research, evidence, or scripture. I knew you was going to say that so i made sure to double check truth and make sure it would stand against your words. The research stood so i am confident in what i believe.
You will find when some say "prove it" they're only striving against you.

That's what pharisees do.
 
Aug 15, 2009
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#91
Do you mean until the whole council of God is taught? The gospel is not about apostasy. The gospel is not about believing that you can or can't lose your salvation.

The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation for everyone who BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16).

Paul tells us in 1 Corinthians 15:2 that we are saved by the gospel if you hold fast that word which I preached to you--unless you believed in vain. To believe in vain is to believe without cause or without effect, to no purpose. If, as some are saying in Corinth, there is no resurrection, then faith is vain and worthless (vs. 14).
2 Thessalonians 2:3

New International Version

Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.

New Living Translation
Don't be fooled by what they say. For that day will not come until there is a great rebellion against God and the man of lawlessness is revealed--the one who brings destruction.

English Standard Version
Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,

Berean Study Bible
Let no one deceive you in any way, for it will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness (the son of destruction) is revealed.

Berean Literal Bible
No one should deceive you in any way, because it is not until the apostasy shall have come first, and the man of lawlessness shall have been revealed--the son of destruction,

New American Standard Bible
Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,

Benson Commentary
2 Thessalonians 2:3-4. Let no man deceive you by any means — By any of these ways fore-mentioned, or any other; for that day shall not come, unless a falling away, η αποστασια, the apostacy, come first — The article here is emphatical, denoting both that this was to be a great apostacy, the apostacy, by way of eminence, (the general, grand departure of the whole visible church into idolatrous worship,) and that the Thessalonians had been already apprized of its coming. Although the Greek word here used often signifies the rebellion of subjects against the supreme power of the country where they live, or the revolt of soldiers against their general, or the hostile separation of one part of a nation from another; yet in Scripture it commonly signifies a departure, either in whole or in part, from a religious faith or obedience formerly professed, Acts 21:21; Hebrews 3:12. Here it denotes the defection of the disciples of Christ from the true faith and worship of God, enjoined in the gospel. Accordingly, the apostle, foretelling this very defection, (1 Timothy 4:1,) says, αποστησονται τινες, some shall apostatize from the faith.

Strong's Concordance
apostasia: defection, revolt
Original Word: ἀποστασία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: apostasia
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-os-tas-ee'-ah)
Short Definition: defection, apostasy
Definition: defection, apostasy, revolt.HELPS Word-studies
646 apostasía (from 868 /aphístēmi, "leave, depart," which is derived from 575 /apó, "away from" and 2476 /histémi, "stand") – properly, departure (implying desertion); apostasy – literally, "a leaving, from a previous standing."
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from aphistémi
Definition
defection, revolt
NASB Translation
apostasy (1), forsake (1).Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 646: ἀποστασία

ἀποστασία, ἀποστασιας, (ἀφισταμαι), a falling away, defection, apostasy; in the Bible namely, from the true religion: Acts 21:21; 2 Thessalonians 2:3; ((Joshua 22:22; 2 Chronicles 29:19; 2 Chronicles 33:19); Jeremiah 2:19; Jeremiah 36:(29) 32 Complutensian; 1 Macc. 2:15). The earlier Greeks say ἀπόστασις; see Lob. ad Phryn., p. 528; (Winer's Grammar, 24).

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
falling away, apostacyFeminine of the same as apostasion; defection from truth (properly, the state) ("apostasy") -- falling away, forsake.
see GREEK apostasion

Only citizens of the kingdom can rebel. Sinners are already rebels.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,054
13,064
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#92
However, some are ignorant by lack of education, & others because they refuse the truth.

So, those that refuse knowledge aren't even in the body. That is indeed idiotic.
Those who refuse to accept the knowledge of the truth about the gospel message aren't even in the body. Genuine believers may not agree on everything else that there is to possibly agree or disagree on, but that does not mean they are not in the body.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,054
13,064
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#94
in Scripture it commonly signifies a departure, either in whole or in part, from a religious faith or obedience formerly professed, Acts 21:21; Hebrews 3:12. Here it denotes the defection of the disciples of Christ from the true faith and worship of God, enjoined in the gospel.
Paul tells us in 1 Corinthians 15:2 that we are saved by the gospel if you hold fast that word which I preached to you--unless you believed in vain. To believe in vain is to believe without cause or without effect, to no purpose. If, as some are saying in Corinth, there is no resurrection, then faith is vain and worthless (vs. 14).

As we read in Hebrews 3:14, For we have become [past tense Gk. verb, gegonamen, meaning we have become already] partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end." Notice that this is essentially a repeat of verse 6, where we read: but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house - whose house we are, if we hold fast our confidence and the boast of our hope firm until the end. The only ones in the end who will be identified as those who have become partakers of Christ, will have been those who hold fast the beginning of their confidence steadfast to the end." These faltering Hebrews who depart from God begin with loud confidence and profession of loyalty. But later? The wording of the above verse in Hebrews is not - "and you will become partakers of Christ (future indicative) if you (future indicative) hold fast." It is rather - "you have been, and now are, partakers of Christ, if in the future you hold fast to Christ." I see holding fast to Christ as a manifestation of genuine belief and having become partakers of Christ and I see departing from God as a manifestation of unbelief and failure to have become partakers of Christ.

Accordingly, the apostle, foretelling this very defection, (
1 Timothy 4:1,) says, αποστησονται τινες, some shall apostatize from the faith.
The words "the faith" (Gr. tês pisteôs) in this context means the apostolic faith, the New Testament apostolic body of doctrines, cf. Jude 3. It does not mean they fell away from saving faith in Christ. As the Bible interprets itself I believe it is biblical to look for more clues from other NT passages. I believe we have a parallell passage in 2 Thess. 2:3-12. There we have the word apostasy (Gr. apostasia), just as we have its verb form in the 1 Timothy passage (verse 1, apostêsontai) under consideration. This does not refer to those who are born of God going to hell. It refers to certain/some (Gr. tines) who are in a state of professing adherence to the New Testament apostolic faith, Christ's doctrine, but who nevertheless will in both doctrine and practice apostasize from it, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons. Those who do so may not even be aware of it, but they may sincerely believe they are doctrinally orthodox. I believe the beginning of such a major departing from the apostolic NT faith was evidenced as the Roman Catholic church began to come into existence in the early 4th century. This harlot church imposes on its clergy that they be unmarried. This same professing body has many demonic doctrines such as the transsubstantiation heresy, purgatory, papal infallibility, Mary's perpetual virginity and her being co-mediator with Christ etc. etc. Nowhere does 1 Tim. 4:1-3 say that they were true Christians (Born again).

Strong's Concordance
apostasia: defection, revolt
Original Word: ἀποστασία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: apostasia
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-os-tas-ee'-ah)
Short Definition: defection, apostasy
Definition: defection, apostasy, revolt.HELPS Word-studies
646 apostasía (from 868 /aphístēmi, "leave, depart," which is derived from 575 /apó, "away from" and 2476 /histémi, "stand") – properly, departure (implying desertion); apostasy – literally, "a leaving, from a previous standing."
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from aphistémi
Definition
defection, revolt
NASB Translation
apostasy (1), forsake (1).Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 646: ἀποστασία

ἀποστασία, ἀποστασιας, (ἀφισταμαι), a falling away, defection, apostasy; in the Bible namely, from the true religion: Acts 21:21; 2 Thessalonians 2:3; ((Joshua 22:22; 2 Chronicles 29:19; 2 Chronicles 33:19); Jeremiah 2:19; Jeremiah 36:(29) 32 Complutensian; 1 Macc. 2:15). The earlier Greeks say ἀπόστασις; see Lob. ad Phryn., p. 528; (Winer's Grammar, 24).

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
falling away, apostacyFeminine of the same as apostasion; defection from truth (properly, the state) ("apostasy") -- falling away, forsake.
see GREEK apostasion

Only citizens of the kingdom can rebel. Sinners are already rebels.
Falling away from the true religion, as you cited above, does not mean those who fell away firmly embraced the true religion. I've seen this numerous times. As we read in 1 John 2:19 - They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they *would have continued with us;* but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us. :)
 
Aug 15, 2009
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#96
Paul tells us in 1 Corinthians 15:2 that we are saved by the gospel if you hold fast that word which I preached to you--unless you believed in vain. To believe in vain is to believe without cause or without effect, to no purpose. If, as some are saying in Corinth, there is no resurrection, then faith is vain and worthless (vs. 14).

As we read in Hebrews 3:14, For we have become [past tense Gk. verb, gegonamen, meaning we have become already] partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end." Notice that this is essentially a repeat of verse 6, where we read: but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house - whose house we are, if we hold fast our confidence and the boast of our hope firm until the end. The only ones in the end who will be identified as those who have become partakers of Christ, will have been those who hold fast the beginning of their confidence steadfast to the end." These faltering Hebrews who depart from God begin with loud confidence and profession of loyalty. But later? The wording of the above verse in Hebrews is not - "and you will become partakers of Christ (future indicative) if you (future indicative) hold fast." It is rather - "you have been, and now are, partakers of Christ, if in the future you hold fast to Christ." I see holding fast to Christ as a manifestation of genuine belief and having become partakers of Christ and I see departing from God as a manifestation of unbelief and failure to have become partakers of Christ.

The words "the faith" (Gr. tês pisteôs) in this context means the apostolic faith, the New Testament apostolic body of doctrines, cf. Jude 3. It does not mean they fell away from saving faith in Christ. As the Bible interprets itself I believe it is biblical to look for more clues from other NT passages. I believe we have a parallell passage in 2 Thess. 2:3-12. There we have the word apostasy (Gr. apostasia), just as we have its verb form in the 1 Timothy passage (verse 1, apostêsontai) under consideration. This does not refer to those who are born of God going to hell. It refers to certain/some (Gr. tines) who are in a state of professing adherence to the New Testament apostolic faith, Christ's doctrine, but who nevertheless will in both doctrine and practice apostasize from it, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons. Those who do so may not even be aware of it, but they may sincerely believe they are doctrinally orthodox. I believe the beginning of such a major departing from the apostolic NT faith was evidenced as the Roman Catholic church began to come into existence in the early 4th century. This harlot church imposes on its clergy that they be unmarried. This same professing body has many demonic doctrines such as the transsubstantiation heresy, purgatory, papal infallibility, Mary's perpetual virginity and her being co-mediator with Christ etc. etc. Nowhere does 1 Tim. 4:1-3 say that they were true Christians (Born again).

Falling away from the true religion, as you cited above, does not mean those who fell away firmly embraced the true religion. I've seen this numerous times. As we read in 1 John 2:19 - They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they *would have continued with us;* but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us. :)
You can't honestly say that with all the evidence in front of you.

There is no "new classification name "so-called saints" in God's eyes. You're either a saint or sinner.

All the epistles are written to instruct the church in righteousness. Very few things were written about sinners with the exception of false teachers, prophets, etc, warning the church about them.

The rest is what will happen to THEM if they don't keep the faith. Judgment. It first starts at the house of God.

The churches in Revelation were warned what would happen if they didn't repent. Judgment. Eternal judgment.

No way you can twist that into a "so called church".
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#97
I love it when we talk about the judgment of God and the house of God. Thank you Lord!

There are some belief mindsets - like those that believe we lose salvation think it has to do with God doing something to His beloved children. They will of course use commentaries that agree with this type of belief to try to "show this is true".

The scripture in 1 Peter 4 about judgment in the house of God must come first is a beautiful promise of the sealing of God's people off before judgment comes.

1 Peter 4:17-18 (KJV)

[SUP]17 [/SUP] For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

[SUP]18 [/SUP] And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?


Peter was the apostle to the Hebrews and Peter being a good Jewish man would have heard this spoken off in the OT...

It is a hebraism ( expression ) from Ezekiel 9:4-6 in which they had set aside the jewish elders and marked them before judgment came..these ones were saved from the judgment....

In other words we get protected/marked by the Spirit of God before judgment comes ..but judgment starts at the house of God first by us being "marked"...that's the sign that judgment is coming to the ungodly as 1 Peter 4:17-18 says.

It's awesome!! it's a beautiful picture of us being sealed by the Holy Spirit..

We have a good, good Father! and a mighty salvation in Jesus our Lord!
 
Aug 15, 2009
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#98
1 Peter 4:17For it is time for judgment to begin with the household of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God? 18AND IF IT IS WITH DIFFICULTY THAT THE RIGHTEOUS IS SAVED, WHAT WILL BECOME OF THE GODLESS MAN AND THE SINNER?
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#99
The beauty of 1 Peter 4 is that in context from verse 12 on to the end - Peter is telling those that are going through trials and suffering as a Christian to entrust their souls to a faithful Creator in that He will do what is right concerning them.

1 Peter 4:19 (NASB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Therefore, those also who suffer according to the will of God shall entrust their souls to a faithful Creator in doing what is right.

It is a beautiful chapter on how God is being faithful to us in the midst of trails and suffering as a Christian. Thank you Lord!

The truth is all judgment was placed on Christ on the cross and we are in Him now.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
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Do you mean until the whole council of God is taught? The gospel is not about apostasy. The gospel is not about believing that you can or can't lose your salvation.

The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation for everyone who BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16).

Paul tells us in 1 Corinthians 15:2 that we are saved by the gospel if you hold fast that word which I preached to you--unless you believed in vain. To believe in vain is to believe without cause or without effect, to no purpose. If, as some are saying in Corinth, there is no resurrection, then faith is vain and worthless (vs. 14).
No i am speaking of the whole gospel. This thread is my personal study which is why its named study on apostasy and not Lets teach the real gospel.

If you dont like thread dont respond but in order for me to be firm in my beliefs, this is part of my belief that believers can fall away. So if i have to ill study all scripture related to it. I have only deeply studied a few and the research supports where the Holy Spirit had enlightened me on scripture.

I post my research and if it goes against what you believe then I dont know what to say because what i post, in no way i can make that stuff up.