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If I were to write a book on eschatology it would be called, "I Don't Care".
I don't say that in a critical, pessimistic or blasphemous way. I just mean that everything will work itself out in God's timing, and that I have more important things to focus on now. I'm also convinced that when the time comes when everything will be revealed, most everyone will be wrong. The early part of my Christian life and my eschatology was shaped by the whole Left Behind book series. (Excuse me, I just threw up in my mouth a little bit. I'm sorry about that. Ahhh, the perils of being young and immature. But I digress.) It has taken several years for God to deconstruct that position. Any study or focus I have put on studying the Scripture on this topic has pretty much only served to deconstruct my doctrine, and God has yet to build anything else up in its place.
Maybe we can point to signs and say that we're living in the Last Days, and maybe we are. But honestly, couldn't every generation say that because of the trials, tribulations, and terrible condition of the world at their time, that they were living in the end times? Holocaust, Great Depression, Persecution of Believers, consistent wars between countries hundreds of years ago. Don't you think those people thought they were living in the "End Times"? I tend to think that by focusing so much on Eschatology and the view that "Surely we are living in the last days", comes across as a little arrogant and self-serving.
We can come up with as much doctrine, conviction and rational pointing to this theory or that one. We can examine all sorts of different Scriptures by Paul and apostles that we can lose sight of what Jesus said:
Matthew 6:25-34 “For this reason I say to you, do not be worried about your life, as to what you will eat or what you will drink; nor for your body, as to what you will put on. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing? 26 Look at the birds of the air, that they do not sow, nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not worth much more than they? 27 And who of you by being worried can add a single hour to his life?28 And why are you worried about clothing? Observe how the lilies of the field grow; they do not toil nor do they spin, 29 yet I say to you that not even Solomon in all his glory clothed himself like one of these. 30 But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which is alive today and tomorrow is thrown into the furnace, will He not much more clothe you? You of little faith! 31 Do not worry then, saying, ‘What will we eat?’ or ‘What will we drink?’ or ‘What will we wear for clothing?’ 32 For the Gentiles eagerly seek all these things; for your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. 33 But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.
34 “So do not worry about tomorrow; for tomorrow will care for itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own."
Matthew 24:36
36"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."
Sure, Jesus/Yeshua talked about the end times and said to be ready, but I don't think He meant for people to constantly interpret when. He says to be ready. What does that imply? Finish the work that you need to do in order to get ready. If you're getting ready to go on vacation, are you focusing on when you will leave and what that will look like? To some degree, yes. But more importantly, you're trying to get everything ready to go: Water the plants, stop the mail, have someone feed your pets, turn on the front porch light, etc. You do everything in your house that needs to be done before you can go.
So, I don't care. I don't care if Obama is going to make himself a dictator. I don't care if they take away people's guns. I don't care if the dollar becomes worthless. I don't care about conspiracies and other signs that say "Surely we are living in the end times.
I care about God has for me today.
"Tomorrow will care for itself."
I don't say that in a critical, pessimistic or blasphemous way. I just mean that everything will work itself out in God's timing, and that I have more important things to focus on now. I'm also convinced that when the time comes when everything will be revealed, most everyone will be wrong. The early part of my Christian life and my eschatology was shaped by the whole Left Behind book series. (Excuse me, I just threw up in my mouth a little bit. I'm sorry about that. Ahhh, the perils of being young and immature. But I digress.) It has taken several years for God to deconstruct that position. Any study or focus I have put on studying the Scripture on this topic has pretty much only served to deconstruct my doctrine, and God has yet to build anything else up in its place.
Maybe we can point to signs and say that we're living in the Last Days, and maybe we are. But honestly, couldn't every generation say that because of the trials, tribulations, and terrible condition of the world at their time, that they were living in the end times? Holocaust, Great Depression, Persecution of Believers, consistent wars between countries hundreds of years ago. Don't you think those people thought they were living in the "End Times"? I tend to think that by focusing so much on Eschatology and the view that "Surely we are living in the last days", comes across as a little arrogant and self-serving.
We can come up with as much doctrine, conviction and rational pointing to this theory or that one. We can examine all sorts of different Scriptures by Paul and apostles that we can lose sight of what Jesus said:
Matthew 6:25-34 “For this reason I say to you, do not be worried about your life, as to what you will eat or what you will drink; nor for your body, as to what you will put on. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing? 26 Look at the birds of the air, that they do not sow, nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not worth much more than they? 27 And who of you by being worried can add a single hour to his life?28 And why are you worried about clothing? Observe how the lilies of the field grow; they do not toil nor do they spin, 29 yet I say to you that not even Solomon in all his glory clothed himself like one of these. 30 But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which is alive today and tomorrow is thrown into the furnace, will He not much more clothe you? You of little faith! 31 Do not worry then, saying, ‘What will we eat?’ or ‘What will we drink?’ or ‘What will we wear for clothing?’ 32 For the Gentiles eagerly seek all these things; for your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. 33 But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.
34 “So do not worry about tomorrow; for tomorrow will care for itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own."
Matthew 24:36
36"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."
Sure, Jesus/Yeshua talked about the end times and said to be ready, but I don't think He meant for people to constantly interpret when. He says to be ready. What does that imply? Finish the work that you need to do in order to get ready. If you're getting ready to go on vacation, are you focusing on when you will leave and what that will look like? To some degree, yes. But more importantly, you're trying to get everything ready to go: Water the plants, stop the mail, have someone feed your pets, turn on the front porch light, etc. You do everything in your house that needs to be done before you can go.
So, I don't care. I don't care if Obama is going to make himself a dictator. I don't care if they take away people's guns. I don't care if the dollar becomes worthless. I don't care about conspiracies and other signs that say "Surely we are living in the end times.
I care about God has for me today.
"Tomorrow will care for itself."
H
yeah, check it: Timelines. Book 1 of the Path of Man series
Well Heck, Why don't we just throw away 1/3 or so of the Bible that deals with prophecy.
Anybody reading anything I or anyone else says on CC should make sure they follow Acts 17:11 [SUP]11 [/SUP]These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
It's true that Christ's return has been imminent from the moment He ascended. However never before have all the prophetic criteria been in place as it is now for His return.
The Jews are back in the Land. For almost 2000 yrs. there was no ISRAEL.
The Gospel has been preached, or is available, in virtually every corner of the globe.
The technology NOW exists for there to be a totally cashless society.
Certainly in one form or another all of these have or are currently happening.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Jesus said to them: “Watch out that no one deceives you. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am he,’ and will deceive many.[SUP]7 [/SUP]When you hear of wars and rumors of wars, do not be alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be earthquakes in various places, and famines. These are the beginning of birth pains.
As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. Boy it sure looks like morally we are in the days of Noah!
There are many more signs but they are a bit more speculative. One thing that hasn't happened that will, is the rebuilding of the Temple. Could the Lord tarry for another 100, 1000, or 10,000 more years? Of course, but it's hard to see the world getting better and to a place where we won't destroy ourselves and not have every thought of man's heart, all the time, being evil like in the days of Noah.
Genesis 6:3 Then the LORD said, "My Spirit will not contend with humans forever, for they are flesh; their days will be a hundred and twenty years."
The Lord gives man many chances to turn to him one way he does this is the Jubilee. Every 50 years things were to return to a blessed way for the children of Israel. when the flood came it turned the land back over to the righteous. so if we take 50 ( jubilee) X 120 you get the 6000 years for man.
Then there is Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. when this verse is put back in the hebrew language you will find 6 Alefs. A alef number value is 1 0r 1000. Then God starts talking about the days of creation. 6 alefs = 6 days or 6 thousand years.
2 Peter 3:8 do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.
The Lord gives man many chances to turn to him one way he does this is the Jubilee. Every 50 years things were to return to a blessed way for the children of Israel. when the flood came it turned the land back over to the righteous. so if we take 50 ( jubilee) X 120 you get the 6000 years for man.
Then there is Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. when this verse is put back in the hebrew language you will find 6 Alefs. A alef number value is 1 0r 1000. Then God starts talking about the days of creation. 6 alefs = 6 days or 6 thousand years.
2 Peter 3:8 do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.
I agree with you that prophecy must not be ignored in the last days, especially because much of it had been sealed till the last days (Dan 12:9). However, there are so many explanations (theories) floating around that it is advisable for every believer to spend much time in prayer and meditate on the Word daily, in order to understand what the truth is. Meanwhile, we must not miss our goal (our hope)- the coming of Christ on the clouds to receive those who are his.
I don't think we should ignore them at all. After all,
2 Timothy 3:16-17 "All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17 so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work."
Every verse has a practical, real-life application for today's Believer. But it's a matter of what we do with that Scripture. In this case, Paul was talking about using every Scripture for teaching, training a working. If the Word of God does not change the way I practically and physically live on daily basis, then it is of very little value. (on a side tangent, how many believers disregard the Old Testament as instructions on how to live our daily life?)
Now, Prophecy regarding the End Times can fall into that category at times, but it seems that more often than not people just speculate and hypothesize, and then argue with one another about their interpretations of what might happen, resulting in little to no benefit for our lives today. That is my problem with Eschatology. We need to focus on the God of who Is, to focus on building up the Kingdom of God today. The future will take care of itself; I cannot change that future. No amount of my study, rationalization, hypothesizing, arguing or debating will change that one bit.
So why focus on all of that, when my disabled neighbor needs help getting his physical house cleaned up so that his health can improve? Why focus on that when my kids need to be trained up as Priests? Why focus on that when the disabled, single father of a teenage girl in my church is running away from the Lord, sending his daughter into depression?
I have no problem with Believers studying Scriptures on the End times. But it has to be put in its proper priority, and it needs to not result in a shouting match.
1 Timothy 1:3-7 "As I urged you upon my departure for Macedonia, remain on at Ephesus so that you may instruct certain men not to teach strange doctrines, 4 nor to pay attention to myths and endless genealogies, which give rise to mere speculation rather than furthering the administration of God which is by faith. 5 But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. 6 For some men, straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion, 7 wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions."
2 Timothy 2:14-16 "Remind them of these things, and solemnly charge them in the presence of God not to wrangle about words, which is useless and leads to the ruin of the hearers. 15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth. 16 But avoid worldly and empty chatter, for it will lead to further ungodliness"
Shalom,
Matt
I wasn't aware I was shouting, but if you were offended then I apologize. We're on the same team, with the same goal of preaching the Gospel, and praying the Holy Spirit will convict, and then indwell, as many non-believers as possible. Having said that, if a Christian Chat room, designated for talk about prophecy isn't the place to talk about PROPHECY, then I don't know where it would be! Also, I believe I'm capable doing the latter and former. May God bless you. In jesus name Amen!
Genesis 2:17 You must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for the day you eat of it you will surely die.
Genesis 5:5 Altogether, Adam lived a total of 930 years, and then he died.
2 Peter 3:8 do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.
Genesis 5:5 Altogether, Adam lived a total of 930 years, and then he died.
2 Peter 3:8 do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.
H
Early premillennialists included Pseudo-Barnabas, Papias, Methodius, Lactantius, Commodianus Theophilus, Tertullian, Melito, Hippolytus of Rome, and Victorinus of Pettau. Many of these theologians and others in the early church expressed their belief in premillennialism through their acceptance of this sexta-septamillennial tradition. This belief claims that human history will continue for 6,000 years and then will enjoy Sabbath for 1,000 years (the millennial kingdom), thus all of human history will have a total of 7,000 years prior to the new creation.
Millennial Day Theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Millennial Day Theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Hey, no worries PennEd. It didn't even occur to me to be offended in the least, or that you were shouting in anyway, so I'm sorry you got that impression.
And I agree with everything you said, even about discussing prophecy. I suppose I was just trying to provide some "Bumpers in the Bowling Alley" so to speak. I'm not saying you're doing this, but again, I would hope that Christians would give prophecy its due diligence, but not become so fixated that their study and efforts in debating come at the cost of the Gospel and at the cost of maturing of the Christian.
So keep building the Kingdom, and I'll be right beside you here in Colorado!
And I agree with everything you said, even about discussing prophecy. I suppose I was just trying to provide some "Bumpers in the Bowling Alley" so to speak. I'm not saying you're doing this, but again, I would hope that Christians would give prophecy its due diligence, but not become so fixated that their study and efforts in debating come at the cost of the Gospel and at the cost of maturing of the Christian.
So keep building the Kingdom, and I'll be right beside you here in Colorado!
W
Peterson, Doug (2011-09-30). The Millennium Chronology (Kindle Locations 76-82). Millennium Publications. Kindle Edition.
[1] = Grant Jeffrey, Apocalypse: The Coming Judgment of the Nations (New York: Bantam Books, 1994), page 123.
Hippolytus of Rome, Hexa-emeron [6 days], http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf05.pdf
Millennial Day Theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennialism
[1] = Grant Jeffrey, Apocalypse: The Coming Judgment of the Nations (New York: Bantam Books, 1994), page 123.
Hippolytus of Rome, Hexa-emeron [6 days], http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf05.pdf
Millennial Day Theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennialism
The 7 days of Genesis, is a 7 day Prophetic Creation Covenant in Adam, (The Adamic Covenant) It is the first thing we're given in God's Word and it is the foundation of God's kingdom! It probably does consist of about 7 thousand years, but it in itself is not referring to creation proper as being 7 thousand years old. It is a promise to Adam and Eve that they did not fulfill in themselves or in their life time. God's promise to Adam in his very creation was to rule over God's creation; while Eve's promise from God in her very creation was to bring forth a Seed Who would wound (crush or destroy) this Serpent's head. It was not meant to be understood by itself but with the rest of God's Word that has also been revealed to us.
Christ Jesus is revealed to us by Paul as the New Creation, and to those in Christ, new creatures in this New Creation; and Paul also revealed Christ Jesus to us as the second Adam! Paul then writes of the literal creation, that it was,'...subjected to futility (fallen unto the hands of another), not willingly, but because of Him Who subjected it.....because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption, (a fallen sinfull place)....... Though Christ Jesus Himself has fulfilled all that was given to Him to fulfill, the creation has not yet been delivered into the liberty of the children (or sons of God in Christ). Thus the prophecy in Genesis has not been fully fulfilled yet!
There is much more to this Genesis story, I am merely pointing out it's prophetic value in the kingdom of Christ Jesus; and that the equation is bigger then most of us were ever taught or realized.
Christ Jesus is revealed to us by Paul as the New Creation, and to those in Christ, new creatures in this New Creation; and Paul also revealed Christ Jesus to us as the second Adam! Paul then writes of the literal creation, that it was,'...subjected to futility (fallen unto the hands of another), not willingly, but because of Him Who subjected it.....because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption, (a fallen sinfull place)....... Though Christ Jesus Himself has fulfilled all that was given to Him to fulfill, the creation has not yet been delivered into the liberty of the children (or sons of God in Christ). Thus the prophecy in Genesis has not been fully fulfilled yet!
There is much more to this Genesis story, I am merely pointing out it's prophetic value in the kingdom of Christ Jesus; and that the equation is bigger then most of us were ever taught or realized.