The Angels and Archangels

[kennethcadwell]

Where did you learn this? Will you still be a human when you pass on to the resurrection? Don’t you have a spirit?

Same place we all have learned it, in the bible.
The bible shows that angels and humans are two separate created beings by God. No scripture says we are the same, or become the same. Just because we are given spiritual bodies at the transformation ( resurrection ) does not mean we are turned into angels.

 

[resurrection33]

you have not provided scripture to say that the Holy angels that were not cast down sinned ? Why ?

The Bible teaches us that anyone who says he is without sin is a liar. I am at work and can’t look it up for you.

 

[resurrection33]

You are wrong res33

2/3 of the created angels have never sinned against the Lord .... and they will not

And Revelation 12 is talking about the fallen angels .... read it

And so are these "stars" [Revelation 6:13]

You are misinterpreting the Scripture.

 

[Straightshot]

"You are misinterpreting the Scripture."


Do you think?

If you cannot read the literal description of fallen angels as "stars" in a number of scriptures .... you have a reading comprehension limitation

Do you know what would happen to the earth of a literal star collided with the earth? .... just one

Use your brain that the Lord has given to you

 

[Paroikou]

I hate to confess to ignorance, but can you give me the Scripture that says Satan was an archangel?

Even archangels are exposed to temptation. At any time, an archangel can yield to temptation and forfeit his, or her, status as an archangel.

Though call the Lamentation for The King Of Tyre, it is clear from description within this passage, the Prophet is also describing satan.

"“You were the seal of perfection,Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13 You were in Eden, the garden of God;
Every precious stone was your covering:
The sardius, topaz, and diamond,
Beryl, onyx, and jasper,
Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold.
The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes
Was prepared for you on the day you were created.

14 “You were the anointed cherub who covers;
I established you;
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created,
Till iniquity was found in you.

16 “By the abundance of your trading
You became filled with violence within,
And you sinned;
Therefore I cast you as a profane thing
Out of the mountain of God;
And I destroyed you, O covering cherub,
From the midst of the fiery stones.

17 “Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty;
You corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor;
I cast you to the ground,
I laid you before kings,
That they might gaze at you.

18 “You defiled your sanctuaries
By the multitude of your iniquities,
By the iniquity of your trading;
Therefore I brought fire from your midst;
It devoured you,
And I turned you to ashes upon the earth
In the sight of all who saw you.
19 All who knew you among the peoples are astonished at you;
You have become a horror,
And shall be no more forever.”’”

 

[GuessWho]

The Bible teaches us that anyone who says he is without sin is a liar. I am at work and can’t look it up for you.

Yes. The Bible does say that. But we mustn't forget that the Bible is more focused on humans and it is written to humans (so that we know who is our Father and the purpose with which He created us and how we moved away from this purpose and how we get back on the right path).

Everything which God created was good and sinless: angels, the universe and the crowning of His creation:us.
But God also gave to angels and humans freedom and mind.

The falling of the angels is the equivalent of the death of humans. With the difference that the fallen angels do not have a Savior because their choice to sin wasn't made out of ignorance or out of spiritual immaturity (like in the case of Adam and Eve).

So, the angels knew exactly what they were doing and for this, they have no excuse. They also can not repent.

The angels who remained in their position and stayed faithful to God didn't sin. They are holy because they are in the glorious presence of God. The holiness of angels comes from the holiness of God and not from within the angels.

Also, the angels were created perfect (unlike humans who were created perfectible - growing into the likeness of God implies that). If the angles are perfect that means that they can not get any better. However, in the virtue of freedom, they can chose to sin. And when they chose to sin, they can no longer repent. They fall into the deepest abyss and they stay evil. Just like the good angels stay good (without the possibility of getting better, since they are perfect).

 

[Straightshot]

Further comments


The subject of angels has significance in the study of prophetic scripture for understanding their functionality and interaction with human kind .... from Genesis to Revelation

This is a realm that cannot be observed, but is is revealed in scripture

What we can see are the results of the interplay on the earth by the related behavior of human actions over time

However, the Lord has limited His revealing of the same in His Word

The book of Revelation brings the most insight into the angelic realm during the coming time of the Lord's hour of trial and judgment

And one must understand that the drama includes both a human testing and a cosmic one

The difference between today and the tribulation period is that the Lord is going to remove His restraint against Satan and his following in order to use them to punish unbelieving earth dwellers, and at the same time to draw them to their own destruction once and for all

And He will use His loyal angels in the process of meting out the judgments ..... a very strange and different setting than mankind has ever experienced

A time of settlement .... the day of the Lord is coming .... the Lord intends to bring down all of angelic and human intransigence against Him in one devastating encounter in short order

 

[resurrection33]

Then you need to go study your bible

What does this verse means ? Is it literal stars or not ?
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

I do not think the stars symbolize angels.

 

[Trailblazer]

We all stand in the presence of the Lord, even at this moment, and the Lord forgives us all when we repent of our sin. That would be true of angels, too. Once you become an angel, do you want the Lord to stop forgiving you?

We do not become Angels.
The reason Jesus will forgive us of our sins is because we are all cursed from Adam and Eve eating of the forbidden fruit in the Garden of Eden. This caused all of humanity to be born into sin and cut off from God.
We had no personal choice in this matter.

God the father loved us so much that he sent Jesus to die for our sins. Those that believe Jesus died for there sins shall have everlasting life. This is by the grace of God only. For we can never be without sin in our cursed fleshly mortal body.

No Angels were ever deceived into eating fruit that would bring sin into there existence. They were not born into sin. They have no curse put upon them from some sort of trickery.
The Angels that rebelled against God. "Now Fallen" Did so on there own free will. There is no savior for any Angels that rebel against God.

 

[resurrection33]

If the saints become the judges over the fallen angels then that means the saints are held in higher regard.
Else wise God would do the judging Himself and not appoint another, or He would have the holy angels judge over the fallen angels. He instead gives that authority to the saints.

There is no rank and file in heaven. Everyone in heaven has repented of their sin and are therefore equal.

 

[resurrection33]

If the saints become the judges over the fallen angels then that means the saints are held in higher regard.
Else wise God would do the judging Himself and not appoint another, or He would have the holy angels judge over the fallen angels. He instead gives that authority to the saints.

… and besides, a fallen angel has forfeited his, or her, rank.

 

[Straightshot]

"I do not think the stars symbolize angels"


You are not reading your Bible accurately or do not know it well enough, and you have picked up extra biblical thinking from somewhere related to the subject of angels that is not scriptural

Your comments sound much like Mormon theology .... very much the same if not


Job
38:1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,

38:2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?

38:3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.

38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

38:5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

38:6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?


Isaiah
14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!


Luke
10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.


Revelation
6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.


Revelation
8:10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;

8:11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.


Revelation
9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.


Revelation
12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.


Revelation
12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

 

[resurrection33]

It talks about the battle that started (and still continues until the end of times when satan and his servants will be completely defeated) in Heaven when Satan sinned and took with him a third of angels. Here he is portrayed as an awful dragon. Read all Revelation 12 so that you have the whole context.

I saw no mention of angels in my quick read of Revelation 12. I do not think stars are symbolic of angels. Remember my statements: Angels are those, living and dead, who have repented of their sin.

 

[resurrection33]

Humans are a "little" lower than the angels at this time .... but this is going to change

You should know this .... it is in scripture

When you repent of your sin, you are equal to the angels. Equal is equal.

 

[resurrection33]

I have to clock out from work, so let me leave you all with one thought: If you repent of your sin and find that you don’t become an angel, let me know.

 

[Straightshot]

"I saw no mention of angels in my quick read of Revelation 12"


Slow down .... keep reading

I am going to help you with something

It is not so much the issue of the angels, but what I see is that you are carrying bad baggage that you have been taught about the subject from somewhere

If your source is what I perceive it to be, you most likely have bigger and more destructive doctrine in your house .... some body left the back door open

Be careful who you follow and do not be deceived .... read the scriptures of your Bible alone, study yourself approved

Put on the full armor of God

 

[tourist]

Same place we all have learned it, in the bible.
The bible shows that angels and humans are two separate created beings by God. No scripture says we are the same, or become the same. Just because we are given spiritual bodies at the transformation ( resurrection ) does not mean we are turned into angels.

I am going with your flow about the angels. Even among the angels there are classifications. It is also clear to me that at the transformation we will have a new body that is both physical and spiritual. When Jesus walked the earth after His resurrection He had both a physical and spiritual body. At the moment, as humans, we were created a little lower than the angels but that will change further on in our eternal destiny as born again believers in Christ.

 

[Trailblazer]

Anyone who repents becomes an angel. Try it.

Are you an Angel? If you were flying around as an Angel. Would you fall to the ground as a mortal man if a sinful thought came to mind if you could not repent of it fast enough?

 

[john832]

Though call the Lamentation for The King Of Tyre, it is clear from description within this passage, the Prophet is also describing satan.

"“You were the seal of perfection,Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13 You were in Eden, the garden of God;
Every precious stone was your covering:
The sardius, topaz, and diamond,
Beryl, onyx, and jasper,
Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold.
The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes
Was prepared for you on the day you were created.

14 “You were the anointed cherub who covers;
I established you;
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created,
Till iniquity was found in you.

16 “By the abundance of your trading
You became filled with violence within,
And you sinned;
Therefore I cast you as a profane thing
Out of the mountain of God;
And I destroyed you, O covering cherub,
From the midst of the fiery stones.

17 “Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty;
You corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor;
I cast you to the ground,
I laid you before kings,
That they might gaze at you.

18 “You defiled your sanctuaries
By the multitude of your iniquities,
By the iniquity of your trading;
Therefore I brought fire from your midst;
It devoured you,
And I turned you to ashes upon the earth
In the sight of all who saw you.
19 All who knew you among the peoples are astonished at you;
You have become a horror,
And shall be no more forever.”’”

Exactly, the prince of Tyre was the human ruler, the king of Tyre was the spirit (Satan) influencing the prince.

Another example...


Dan 10:12 Then said he unto me, Fear not, Daniel: for from the first day that thou didst set thine heart to understand, and to chasten thyself before thy God, thy words were heard, and I am come for thy words.
Dan 10:13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

These were not humans resisting Gabriel and Michael. Here is what one angel is capable of...

2Ki 19:35 And it came to pass that night, that the angel of the LORD went out, and smote in the camp of the Assyrians an hundred fourscore and five thousand: and when they arose early in the morning, behold, they were all dead corpses.

One angel killed 185,000 men. I don't think these were humans withstanding Gabriel and Michael for three weeks.

 

[dcontroversal]

I have to clock out from work, so let me leave you all with one thought: If you repent of your sin and find that you don’t become an angel, let me know.

So are you stealing your bosses time and money while cc'ing at work?