The ark saves

[SeaBass]

when once the long-suffering of God did wait, in days of Noah -- an ark being preparing -- in which few, that is, eight souls, were preserved through water; The antitype of which (the spiritual counterpart of the physical ark) also now saves us -- immersing not flesh yet putting away filth. Granting a clear conscience unto God through the rising again of Jesus Christ,

1 Pet 3:20 "Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:"

The underlying word for "like figure" is antitypos and means a mirror reflection. If you looked into a mirror, then you are the type and your reflection is an exact anti-type to you the type.
A die would be a type and the imprint the die leaves is the anti-type, a mirror reflection of the type.

The point Peter is making is the OT type is 8 souls "saved by water" and the anti-type to that/the mirror reflection to that is us also are "saved by water".


Peter did NOT say 8 souls saved by an ark but said 8 souls "saved by water". The "saved by an ark" does not fit the type to anti-type connection Peter made for we today are not saved by a literal ark but saved by literal water (baptism) as Noah was saved by literal water (flood).

 

[SeaBass]

No...I disagree with your watered down salvation which is no salvation at all......!

While agreeing with his sarcasm and statement about the ARK which is the type of Jesus and the entire Ark being covered with PITCH inside and OUT which is representative of the BLOOD...NOT WATER......God did not say....when I see the BLOOD and WATER I will pass over you....HE clearly said....WHEN I SEE the BLOOD I WILL PASS OVER YOU......

Like I said...best thing you could do is chunk your COC watered down false gospel and believe what the bible actually teaches...

NOAH and family were saved by the ARK (BLOOD AND JESUS) and the WATER was the dividing line between those who perished and those who were preserved and in LIKE MANNER....The act of scriptural IMMERSION states PUBLICALLY that YOU have received JESUS and are a new creation in Christ JESUS.....THE WATER does not save or ADD to salvation, but rather is the PUBLIC declaration of FAITH into the COMPLETED work of Jesus...

Your running out of time to get it right, and as long as you follow CAMPBELL'S teachings it will take you some place you don't want to go to!

Peter said "saved by water" and nothing is 'weird' about that, it is a stated biblical fact. What is 'weird' are those that keep trying to change/pervert what Peter actually did say "saved by water" to "saved by an ark" to avoid the inevitable fact Peter is saying water baptism saves us as the flood water saved 8 souls.

Evidently your having to rewrite, change, pervert what Peter said does not bother your seared conscience.

 

[granpa]

This is what he said:

 

[SeaBass]

Lets use this logic to it's full conclusion....

So I guess saved always means saved by your theology.....

So, I guess women are SAVED by bearing children right? 1st Timothy 2:15

Or maybe Jesus was mistaken when he applied the word SAVED unto FLESH in the gospels account of the end and for the sake of the elect....FLESH and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God...

Or maybe the Pharisees misunderstood (saved) when the mocked Jesus about SAVING others, but not having the ability to SAVE his PHYSICAL LIFE while on the cross....

Oh, let me guess.......SAVED doesn't mean SAVED in the above texts mentioned......So what does the word SAVED actually mean...oh that's right is has some 7 different applications as found in the N.T.

Such as...to save, to PRESERVE, to PROTECT, to do well, to make whole, to deliver, be safe

and as applied unto Israel in Romans 10:1 To rescue, to deliver, to be in health to SAVE.......

What a joke........serious......!

In 1 Pet 3:21 "saved" means saved as in final salvation. Peter already said back in Acts 2:38 that baptism is "for the remission of sins". Remission of sins = saved= final salvation.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Peter said "saved by water" and nothing is 'weird' about that, it is a stated biblical fact. What is 'weird' are those that keep trying to change/pervert what Peter actually did say "saved by water" to "saved by an ark" to avoid the inevitable fact Peter is saying water baptism saves us as the flood water saved 8 souls.

Evidently your having to rewrite, change, pervert what Peter said does not bother your seared conscience.

"saved by water" - the water didn't touch Noah and his family - the water did not immerse the ark . . . It killed the disobedient. Did it wash the disobedient - they were the ones immersed in water? - I don't think they were even sprinkled.

It saved 8 souls - it saved 8 people from destruction . . . The same as being baptized in Holy Spirit saves us from destruction of eternal fire and brimstone making us the children of God - that is the ONLY way we can be the children of God is through the new birth which entails being born again of the Spirit with is being baptized by the Spirit into one body - the body of Christ; the church.

 

[dcontroversal]

Peter said "saved by water" and nothing is 'weird' about that, it is a stated biblical fact. What is 'weird' are those that keep trying to change/pervert what Peter actually did say "saved by water" to "saved by an ark" to avoid the inevitable fact Peter is saying water baptism saves us as the flood water saved 8 souls.

Evidently your having to rewrite, change, pervert what Peter said does not bother your seared conscience.

No what is weird is your COC doctrine overriding the word saved and what it actually means...KIND of like the Episcopalians who believed in baptismal regeneration and were the ones who TRANSLATED the KING JIMMY.....like I said, one day you will beg for water because you trusted into water OVER the BLOOD...so what ever dude....disregard the word and how it can be translated...no biggie to me....I follow Jesus you follow Campbell pretty simple to me!

 

[jdbear]

Originally posted by Sea Bass,
So you agree with jdbear that what Peter wrote BY INSPIRATION was "weird".

My comment was poorly worded. I didn't mean to say that it was weird, but that it sounded strange. To say a believer is saved by something that destroys is kind of weird, but with the explanation in the NT, it makes perfect sense.

Originally posted by Sea Bass,
God could use the water in more than one way. One way God used the water was to destroy that wicked, disobedient world but at the same time God used the water to lift the ark to safety from the destruction. Had the water not lifted the ark then it would have remained under water and all occupants destroyed. God also used the water to save Noah from that wicked generation. By destroying that wicked generation, Noah could exit the ark into a new "clean" "fresh" world with a new life apart from the wickedness that once engulfed the world. So as water separated Noah from the lost world, water baptism separates the saved from the lost.
Peter did not say Noah was saved by "water alone". Heb 11:7 "By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith." Noah was saved by a combination of water and his obedient faith. To be saved Noah had to do the work of building and entering the ark. For us today, we are saved by obediently entering Christ by water baptism Gal 3:27.

I view the the OT stories as conveying spiritual truths. Peter said,

"The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ." 1 Pet.3:21

The flood is a figure of baptism.

"The end of all flesh is come before me ...And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh ...And all flesh died..." Gen.6:3,17, 7:21

Baptism destroys all flesh.

"And he (John the baptist) came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance" Lk.3:3

It begins with repentance.

"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death Rom.6:3-4

It produces death to self.

"...See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?...And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest." Acts 8:36-37

It takes your whole heart.

 

[kennethcadwell]

I pose two different questions in a way;

Does the ark save, the water save (flood), or does obedience play a role in being saved ?


What would have happened to Noah and his family if he disobeyed God and didn't build the ark ?

 

[jdbear]

Originally posted by dcontroversal,
While agreeing with his sarcasm...

I wasn't being sarcastic bro! It's just that baptism isn't something people usually equate with destruction.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

I pose two different questions in a way;

Does the ark save, the water save (flood), or does obedience play a role in being saved ?

What would have happened to Noah and his family if he disobeyed God and didn't build the ark ?

But Noah found grace [favor, acceptance] in the eyes of the LORD. Noah walked with God - Noah believed God.

What came first Noah's faith in God, then his obedience or his obedience, then his faith in God?

 

[jdbear]

I pose two different questions in a way;

Does the ark save, the water save (flood), or does obedience play a role in being saved ?


What would have happened to Noah and his family if he disobeyed God and didn't build the ark ?

I think faith produces works:

"... Jesus seeing their faith..." Mt.9:2

Noahs faith is seen by what he did.

 

[SeaBass]

"saved by water" - the water didn't touch Noah and his family - the water did not immerse the ark . . . It killed the disobedient. Did it wash the disobedient - they were the ones immersed in water? - I don't think they were even sprinkled.


It saved 8 souls - it saved 8 people from destruction . . . The same as being baptized in Holy Spirit saves us from destruction of eternal fire and brimstone making us the children of God - that is the ONLY way we can be the children of God is through the new birth which entails being born again of the Spirit with is being baptized by the Spirit into one body - the body of Christ; the church.

So here you admit they were "saved by water" so they were not "saved by baptism with the Holy Spirit", that idea is made up out of thin air to get around the fact Peter is talking about being saved by water baptism.

The OT type: saved by water (flood)
NT antitype: saved by water (baptism)

"Saved by water" is the OT type and the mirror reflection of that is we are also "saved by water"


1) since the anti-type is a reflection of the type..
2) you are trying to make the anti-type "saved by Holy Spirit baptism..
3) then the type must be the world was flooded with spirit and Noah was saved by spirit. (which is incorrect)

So you trying to make the anti-type some kind of spirit baptism does not fit the type. The world was flood with literal water, Noah was saved by literal water and the reflection of that is we too are saved by literal water (baptism). No spirit in the type to anti-type connection at all.

 

[SeaBass]

No what is weird is your COC doctrine overriding the word saved and what it actually means...KIND of like the Episcopalians who believed in baptismal regeneration and were the ones who TRANSLATED the KING JIMMY.....like I said, one day you will beg for water because you trusted into water OVER the BLOOD...so what ever dude....disregard the word and how it can be translated...no biggie to me....I follow Jesus you follow Campbell pretty simple to me!

Peter made the point:

OT type:----------saved by water (flood)
NT anti-type:----saved by water (baptism)

It's that simple but your theology will not allow you to accept it. That is all that is going on here. Me belonging to the church of Christ has nothing to do with anything nor does it change the fact of Peter saying water baptism saves. I could be the world's biggest heathen and that would not change the fact Peter is saying water baptism saves. This heathen would be pointing out your false theology.

 

[notuptome]

So here you admit they were "saved by water" so they were not "saved by baptism with the Holy Spirit", that idea is made up out of thin air to get around the fact Peter is talking about being saved by water baptism.

The OT type: saved by water (flood)
NT antitype: saved by water (baptism)

"Saved by water" is the OT type and the mirror reflection of that is we are also "saved by water"


1) since the anti-type is a reflection of the type..
2) you are trying to make the anti-type "saved by Holy Spirit baptism..
3) then the type must be the world was flooded with spirit and Noah was saved by spirit. (which is incorrect)

So you trying to make the anti-type some kind of spirit baptism does not fit the type. The world was flood with literal water, Noah was saved by literal water and the reflection of that is we too are saved by literal water (baptism). No spirit in the type to anti-type connection at all.

More folly. Noah was not saved by the flood. Noah was saved from the flood. The flood is symbolic of Gods judgment upon the earth for the sins of man. The flood water represents Gods wrath on sin. God also promised not to repeat the flood but to judge with fire the next time.

Noah was saved because he was in the ark and sealed by the hand of God. Now there's security of the believer for you. The flood washed away sinful men.

Today baptism represents the washing of regeneration of the Holy Spirit. Water making clean the outside and the Holy Spirit cleansing the inside the part that really matters.

Keep on grinding you will anyhow. You have a better chance of empting the ocean with a teaspoon than getting saved by water baptism.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[SeaBass]

I pose two different questions in a way;

Does the ark save, the water save (flood), or does obedience play a role in being saved ?


What would have happened to Noah and his family if he disobeyed God and didn't build the ark ?

Good point.


God's grace saved, the water saved and Noah's obedient faith saved by building the ark and entering it with the animals.

----So any idea anyone has that grace only saves is not accepting what the bible has to say about Noah's salvation.

----Peter did not say "water alone" saved but the topic Peter is talking about when it came to Noah's salvation is water.

----I do not deny that ark played a role in Noah's salvation but again, it is NOT the part the ark played in Noah's salvation that Peter is talking about, but Peter is talking about the role WATER played in Noah's salvation and how WATER plays a part in our salvation too. Some will not accept this and so they keep bring up the role that ark had in Noah's salvation when Peter is, again, talking about the role WATER played in Noah's and our salvation.

 

[SeaBass]

Noah was not saved by the flood.
Roger

"saved by water" 1 Pet 3:20.


I see a clear contradiction.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

So here you admit they were "saved by water" so they were not "saved by baptism with the Holy Spirit", that idea is made up out of thin air to get around the fact Peter is talking about being saved by water baptism.

They were saved from destruction . . . rescued out from the flood.

The OT type: saved by water (flood)
NT antitype: saved by water (baptism)

"Saved by water" is the OT type and the mirror reflection of that is we are also "saved by water"

1) since the anti-type is a reflection of the type..
2) you are trying to make the anti-type "saved by Holy Spirit baptism..
3) then the type must be the world was flooded with spirit and Noah was saved by spirit. (which is incorrect)

The OT type was saved by water - then enters in Jesus Christ. Through his ascension he made available the new birth being born of the Spirit = being baptized with Holy Spirit - we are not SAVED by any baptism - either [water or Spirit]baptism is the result of our faith. The new birth with the baptism of Holy Spirit is the new man created within each born again believer.

So you trying to make the anti-type some kind of spirit baptism does not fit the type. The world was flood with literal water, Noah was saved by literal water and the reflection of that is we too are saved by literal water (baptism). No spirit in the type to anti-type connection at all.

Nope I am not trying "to make the antitype some kind of spirit baptism" - Jesus Christ himself said that "John truly baptised with water but I shall baptize you in Holy Spirit " . . . . .

type - water
antitype - living water (Spirit)

 

[dcontroversal]

Peter made the point:

OT type:----------saved by water (flood)
NT anti-type:----saved by water (baptism)

It's that simple but your theology will not allow you to accept it. That is all that is going on here. Me belonging to the church of Christ has nothing to do with anything nor does it change the fact of Peter saying water baptism saves. I could be the world's biggest heathen and that would not change the fact Peter is saying water baptism saves. This heathen would be pointing out your false theology.

You really should take a step back as your theology is what taints your view period...NOAH was set APART by the water as the dividing line...GRACE is what saved Noah and his FAITH into what was coming which is seen in the ARK.....and to say your Cambellite doctrine does not influence your belief into water for salvation is a farce....

WATER does not save

The bible DOES NOT TEACH when I SEE THE BLOOD AND THE WATER I WILL PASS OVER YOU...

IT CLEARLY teaches WHEN I SEE the BLOOD (APPLIED BY FAITH) I WILL PASS OVER YOU....

KEEP adding water where water is not added and it will be real HOT for you one day soon!

 

[dcontroversal]

"saved by water" 1 Pet 3:20.


I see a clear contradiction.

So are women saved by bearing children? 1st Timothy 2:15?

By your continued rejection of the word saved and THE 6 or 7 different ways it can be translated such as SET APART...you taint your view....SO answer the question about the Timothy reference!

SAVED in childbearing<------if saved always means soul salvation!

 

[notuptome]

"saved by water" 1 Pet 3:20.


I see a clear contradiction.

There appears to be a great gulf fixed between you and the bible.

For the cause of Christ
Roger