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ChosenbyHim

Senior Member
Sep 19, 2011
3,343
114
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UMM Chosen,

A couple of questions for you,do you or anyone you know of perhaps have a 1600's dictionary to makes sure you know what the words mean? The meanings on some of the words have changed over the years. It's not the Greek and Hebrew that is the problem,the problem is that ENGLISH changed over time.

Question two doesn't it bother you to know that in many cases the Bible of choice for cults is the KJV? Why do they choose the KJV? Do you ever wonder about that?

Question three aren't we told not to lean on our own understanding? And isn't it the Holy Spirit that leads us into all truth?

Just curious.
Well I do not have a 1600s dictionary. And nor do I know someone who may have a 1600s English dictionary. I could probably get access to a Webster's American Dictionary I am sure though.

I found out that during the process of Noah Webster working on his dictionary that he learned 26 languages, some of them were German, Old English, Latin, Italian, French, Arabic, and Hebrew. He was definitely a brilliant man.

Well Sarah, just because some of the cults may use God's perfect and inerrant word, which is the King James Bible. It does not mean that they submit to the word of God as their Final Authority. Seventh Day Adventists also submit to the teachings of Ellen G. White. Mormons submit to the book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants as well as the Pearl of Great Price. And by the way; the Mormons regard the book of Mormon as the "most correct" book of scripture. But of course, we know that it is not scripture. The Mormon cult added to God's word. In fact, they added a third testament!!!!

Again, the book of Mormon and the pearl of great price are just satanic works of literature.

The Jehovah's Witnesses, they really should be called the Russelites. And well they have their own bible version. It is called the New World Translation. What I have heard about them though, is that before they came out with their New World Translation, even when they were still using the King James Bible, the JW teachers were telling their students and members of the kingdom hall to scratch out certain words in their King James Bibles and to put which ever words they told them to put in place of it.

So the russelites are really wicked people. They were Bible critics and they thought that they could correct the Bible. So again, the Russelite cult were Bible correctors and Bible critics right form the beginning. They don't submit to God's perfect word, which is the King James Bible.

And again, if you ask a Mormon, or a Russelite, or a Sacred Name Movement devotee, or a Hebrew Roots Devotee whether or not they believe the King James Bible is the perfect and inerrant word of God. They most likely will tell you that they do not believe the King James Bible.

Especially if you ask a Mormon or a Russelite, most likely they will give you many of the same old worn-out arguments that people have used against the King James Bible for over 100 years. Arguments that have been soundly answered by Bible believers over the years.

In fact, I can remember this as if it was just yesterday. I remember this one time I was walkimg in a wal-mart with two of my brothers in the Lord, this was during the night time. And we ran into this gentleman who worked at this walmart, he appeared to be a stock clerk for the company. And he was an elderly man. And we were doing some tracting, so we handed him a Gospel tract, and then once he looked at it, he politely handed it back to us, explaining to us that he was a Jehovah's witness. Again, he is a russelite, he wouldn't witness for Jehovah a day in his life.

And then when I brought the subject of the King James Bible
up to him, he went on to tell me that there are about 7,000 words that were mistranslated in the KJV. This man said that there were 7,000 errors in the KJV. And of course, I politely told him that the King James Bible does not have any errors in it because it is God's perfect and inerrant word. And I told him also that God's word cannot have any errors in it, because God cannot lie.

So, the Russelite cult is dangerous because they are Bible correctors. I mean this elderly man obviously learned this erroneous and false teaching from his leaders. The erroneous teaching that the Bible has 7,000 errors in it. I mean give me a break, people these days are so gullible.

I was just glad that I was there to sow a seed of Bible belief.

And of course not belief in his New World Translation, but rather belief in the right Bible, which is the King James Holy Bible. Which is God's perfect and inerrant and infallible word.

And that night may had been a divine appointment. All glory be to God Almighty.

Now Sarah as for your third question. Yes we are to go by the Holy Spirit's leading and guiding. And it is the Holy Spirit that will lead us into all truth. And the Holy Spirit will lead you to the right Bible. He will lead you to God's perfect, pure and inerrant word.
 

Agricola

Senior Member
Dec 10, 2012
2,638
88
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Yes we are to go by the Holy Spirit's leading and guiding. And it is the Holy Spirit that will lead us into all truth. And the Holy Spirit will lead you to the right Bible. He will lead you to God's perfect, pure and inerrant word.
This is a typical response by a cult. We are right and our god will show you we are right , our god is never wrong. If you do not get it, then you are following the wrong god, cause we are right and you must join us or die .
 

ChosenbyHim

Senior Member
Sep 19, 2011
3,343
114
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Chosen,

Question for you,I have heard preachers use this passage from the KJV,I have heard at least three different meanings by preachers using the KJV. So my question for you what does this word really mean within the context of this passage?

What is the definition of effeminate in 1 Corinthians 6? Again I have heard preachers using it to mean at least three different ways so which one is correct?

8 Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren. 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Would you be kind enough to explain it? Thanks

Sure Sarah. And you are welcome.

Well the word effeminate means having woman-like qualities. And I believe that the word effeminate in the 1 Corinthians 6 passage is talking about men who act womanlike. Basically guys who act like ladies and behave in a feminine manner. Sarah, have you ever seen a man that wore lipstick? Or that walked like a lady? Or have you ever seen a guy who talked like a woman? Well that is what the term Effeminate means. Basically just males that have feminine behaviours.

 
B

Bluecomet

Guest
You are very CORRECT.
 

ChosenbyHim

Senior Member
Sep 19, 2011
3,343
114
63
Chosen,

Question for you,I have heard preachers use this passage from the KJV,I have heard at least three different meanings by preachers using the KJV. So my question for you what does this word really mean within the context of this passage?

What is the definition of effeminate in 1 Corinthians 6? Again I have heard preachers using it to mean at least three different ways so which one is correct?

8 Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren. 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Would you be kind enough to explain it? Thanks


Also, to further break down this word effeminate, I went ahead and looked it up in the online Webster's Online Dictionary and here is what I found:


[TABLE="width: 732"]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: head"]Part of Speech[/TD]
[TD="class: head, width: 85%"]Definition[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Adjective[/TD]
[TD]1. Having unsuitable feminine qualities.[Wordnet]
2. Characterized by excessive softness or self-indulgence; "an effeminate civilization".[Wordnet]
3. Having some characteristic of a woman, as delicacy, luxuriousness, etc.; soft or delicate to an unmanly degree; womanish; weak.[Websters]
4. Womanlike; womanly; tender; -- in a good sense.[Websters]
5. Being womanish, feminine, womanly or female. [Eve - graph theoretic]
6. Being sissy, girlish or cissy. [Eve - graph theoretic]
7. Being soft, tender, gentle, mild or mellow. [Eve - graph theoretic]
8. Being weak, feeble or frail. [Eve - graph theoretic]
9. Being delicate or dainty. [Eve - graph theoretic]
10. Adjective base of the adverb effeminately.[Eve - graph theoretic]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Adverb Form
(effeminately)
[/TD]
[TD]1. In an effeminate or womanish manner; weakly; softly; delicately.[Websters].
2. By means of a woman; by the power or art of a woman.[Websters].
3. In a ladylike or feminine manner.[Eve - graph theoretic]
4. In a weak or slack manner.[Eve - graph theoretic]
5. In a soft, tender, mild, lax or lithe manner.[Eve - graph theoretic]
6. In a girlish or womanish manner.[Eve - graph theoretic]
7. In a delicate, mellow, sensitive or tenuous manner

[TABLE="width: 539"]
[TR]
[TD]Verb[/TD]
[TD]1. To make womanish; to make soft and delicate; to weaken.[Websters]
2. To grow womanish or weak.[Websters]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


[TABLE="width: 732"]
[TR]
[TD="class: head"]Domain[/TD]
[TD="class: head, width: 85%"]Definition[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Noah Webster[/TD]
[TD]1: [Adjective] Having the qualities of the female sex; soft or delicate to an unmanly degree; tender; womanish; voluptuous. The king, by his voluptuous life and mean marriage, became effeminate, and less sensible of honor..[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]2: [Adjective] Womanish; weak; resembling the practice or qualities of the sex; as an effeminate peace; an effeminate life..[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]3: [Adjective] Womanlike, tender, in a sense not reproachful..[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]4: [Verb] To make womanish; to unman; to weaken; as to effeminate children..[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]5: [Verb] To grow womanish or weak; to melt into weakness. In a slothful peace courage will effeminate

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 
B

Bluecomet

Guest
It means only WOMANISH !
 
B

Bluecomet

Guest
A man can't act like a woman. And a woman can't act like a man.
 
Dec 26, 2012
5,853
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Sure Sarah. And you are welcome.

Well the word effeminate means having woman-like qualities. And I believe that the word effeminate in the 1 Corinthians 6 passage is talking about men who act womanlike. Basically guys who act like ladies and behave in a feminine manner. Sarah, have you ever seen a man that wore lipstick? Or that walked like a lady? Or have you ever seen a guy who talked like a woman? Well that is what the term Effeminate means. Basically just males that have feminine behaviours.

Chosen,

Of course I have,you have to remember to whom I am to minister to. (If I haven't been clear on that I can state it again)
I do understand about the clothing and the lipstick. But what I don't understand is does that include men who are physically more feminine or women that are more physically masculine? IE either a woman or man that when they go through puberty they are outside the norms so their hips develop a bit outside the norm,so in the case of a woman her gait would be more masculine or in the case of a male that develops a bit more in the hips and causes their gait to be more feminine? And how do you define when it crosses from one into the other?
 
Dec 26, 2012
5,853
137
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Also, to further break down this word effeminate, I went ahead and looked it up in the online Webster's Online Dictionary and here is what I found:


[TABLE="width: 732"]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: head"]Part of Speech[/TD]
[TD="class: head, width: 85%"]Definition[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Adjective[/TD]
[TD]1. Having unsuitable feminine qualities.[Wordnet]
2. Characterized by excessive softness or self-indulgence; "an effeminate civilization".[Wordnet]
3. Having some characteristic of a woman, as delicacy, luxuriousness, etc.; soft or delicate to an unmanly degree; womanish; weak.[Websters]
4. Womanlike; womanly; tender; -- in a good sense.[Websters]
5. Being womanish, feminine, womanly or female. [Eve - graph theoretic]
6. Being sissy, girlish or cissy. [Eve - graph theoretic]
7. Being soft, tender, gentle, mild or mellow. [Eve - graph theoretic]
8. Being weak, feeble or frail. [Eve - graph theoretic]
9. Being delicate or dainty. [Eve - graph theoretic]
10. Adjective base of the adverb effeminately.[Eve - graph theoretic]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Adverb Form
(effeminately)
[/TD]
[TD]1. In an effeminate or womanish manner; weakly; softly; delicately.[Websters].
2. By means of a woman; by the power or art of a woman.[Websters].
3. In a ladylike or feminine manner.[Eve - graph theoretic]
4. In a weak or slack manner.[Eve - graph theoretic]
5. In a soft, tender, mild, lax or lithe manner.[Eve - graph theoretic]
6. In a girlish or womanish manner.[Eve - graph theoretic]
7. In a delicate, mellow, sensitive or tenuous manner

[TABLE="width: 539"]
[TR]
[TD]Verb[/TD]
[TD]1. To make womanish; to make soft and delicate; to weaken.[Websters]
2. To grow womanish or weak.[Websters]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


[TABLE="width: 732"]
[TR]
[TD="class: head"]Domain[/TD]
[TD="class: head, width: 85%"]Definition[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Noah Webster[/TD]
[TD]1: [Adjective] Having the qualities of the female sex; soft or delicate to an unmanly degree; tender; womanish; voluptuous. The king, by his voluptuous life and mean marriage, became effeminate, and less sensible of honor..[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]2: [Adjective] Womanish; weak; resembling the practice or qualities of the sex; as an effeminate peace; an effeminate life..[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]3: [Adjective] Womanlike, tender, in a sense not reproachful..[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]4: [Verb] To make womanish; to unman; to weaken; as to effeminate children..[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]5: [Verb] To grow womanish or weak; to melt into weakness. In a slothful peace courage will effeminate

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
UMM But are any of those the definitions they used in 1611? Your using a modern dictionary to define the word.
You have one definition in there that would be nature exclude some men because they aren't very big to begin with.
I mean is a guy that is 5' 11" and 125 lbs dripping who never bulked up going to be very strong. (Know a guy like that he eats like a horse too) Try as hard as he wants to he can't lift over 50 lbs. So is he included in that verse? I know of people who have tried to do that.





 

ChosenbyHim

Senior Member
Sep 19, 2011
3,343
114
63
Chosen,

Of course I have,you have to remember to whom I am to minister to. (If I haven't been clear on that I can state it again)
I do understand about the clothing and the lipstick. But what I don't understand is does that include men who are physically more feminine or women that are more physically masculine? IE either a woman or man that when they go through puberty they are outside the norms so their hips develop a bit outside the norm,so in the case of a woman her gait would be more masculine or in the case of a male that develops a bit more in the hips and causes their gait to be more feminine? And how do you define when it crosses from one into the other?

Oh Ok, I think I see where your coming from with your question. Well, that is definitely debatable. Because what if a guy is born with a physical condition that he was not able to control.

I just believe that if the man is choosing to be ladylike intentionally when he has it in his control to be more masculine, then I think that is what the Scriptures are talking about. Men who willingly choose to be effeminate and womanlike. I see it a lot where I live. I live in the city. So it is common, which is unfortunate.

Now I also looked up the word effeminate in the Scriptures, and it only appears one time throughout the whole Scripture, and that is in 1 Corinthains 6:9.

Have you heard of the law of first mention Sarah?

It is basically where a word first shows up in the Scriptures, it is usually defined within the context.

Let us look at 1 Corinthians 6:

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. - 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 (King James Bible)

So the very next phrase that follows effeminate, is nor abusers of themselves with mankind. Which of course is referring to men who lie with other men. Hence, the context defines the term.

Again, it is men who act like women, they talk like and act like women. And they do it willingly.
 
Dec 26, 2012
5,853
137
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Oh Ok, I think I see where your coming from with your question. Well, that is definitely debatable. Because what if a guy is born with a physical condition that he was not able to control.

I just believe that if the man is choosing to be ladylike intentionally when he has it in his control to be more masculine, then I think that is what the Scriptures are talking about. Men who willingly choose to be effeminate and womanlike. I see it a lot where I live. I live in the city. So it is common, which is unfortunate.

Now I also looked up the word effeminate in the Scriptures, and it only appears one time throughout the whole Scripture, and that is in 1 Corinthains 6:9.

Have you heard of the law of first mention Sarah?

It is basically where a word first shows up in the Scriptures, it is usually defined within the context.

Let us look at 1 Corinthians 6:

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. - 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 (King James Bible)

So the very next phrase that follows effeminate, is nor abusers of themselves with mankind. Which of course is referring to men who lie with other men. Hence, the context defines the term.

Again, it is men who act like women, they talk like and act like women. And they do it willingly.
Chosen doesn't effeminate follow this neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, so is it not possible that Paul is trying to get this across

2. Characterized by excessive softness or self-indulgence; "an effeminate civilization".

Wouldn't that change the concept of what Paul is trying to get across? Remember Paul is speaking to Greeks.

 

ChosenbyHim

Senior Member
Sep 19, 2011
3,343
114
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Chosen doesn't effeminate follow this neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, so is it not possible that Paul is trying to get this across

2. Characterized by excessive softness or self-indulgence; "an effeminate civilization".

Wouldn't that change the concept of what Paul is trying to get across? Remember Paul is speaking to Greeks.

Well yes Sarah, the word effeminate does follow neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers in 1 Cor. 6:9, just as you pointed out, but also consider, what follows immediately after nor effeminate. And that is nor abusers of themselves with mankind.

Notice how it is placed right next to that very phrase. So that must mean that Paul was not just referring to sodomites but also men who have the same tendencies as the sodomites do. Which the tendency of a sodomite is to be very woman-like and feminine.
 
Dec 26, 2012
5,853
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Well yes Sarah, the word effeminate does follow neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers in 1 Cor. 6:9, just as you pointed out, but also consider, what follows immediately after nor effeminate. And that is nor abusers of themselves with mankind.

Notice how it is placed right next to that very phrase. So that must mean that Paul was not just referring to sodomites but also men who have the same tendencies as the sodomites do. Which the tendency of a sodomite is to be very woman-like and feminine.
So does that mean if according to you,that men and women that are a bit outside of the norm that they are condemned because God gave them their personality? And how do you define where they cross the line so to speak? Please define the boundaries that you mean,where are they crossing the line. Does God want us confused as to what He means?
 

ChosenbyHim

Senior Member
Sep 19, 2011
3,343
114
63
So does that mean if according to you,that men and women that are a bit outside of the norm that they are condemned because God gave them their personality? And how do you define where they cross the line so to speak? Please define the boundaries that you mean,where are they crossing the line. Does God want us confused as to what He means?
Well Sarah, it just means that if a man willingly and openly acts feminine when it is condemned in the Bible, then that man is already under condemnation.


17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin. - James 4:17 (KJV)


God wants a distinction. And if you think about it Sarah, our God is a God of distinction. I mean just look at all the colors that He created, all the different shapes, and so forth.

I believe men are crossing the line when they willingly wear women clothing, when they know the Bible condemns it. Or when they know that it is just not right.


5The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the Lord thy God. - Deuteronomy 22:5 (KJV)


So crossing the line would include men who cross dress, pick up feminine mannerisms, etc. Again, if a man has a health condition that causes him to be a little bit heavy, or having a slightly unique shape that may cause him to look a bit feminine outside of his control, well the Lord knows his situation.

But if it falls under what a man can control and the fact that what he is doing is in rebellion against the word of God. Then I believe that is where the man has crossed the line. I believe it is willingly. That is, that it is his choice to live how he is living. I hope I was able to explain this a little more clear Sarah. I know that I am not really good with formulating words and sentences a lot of the time.

And no, God wants us to be sure of what He has said. That is why He gave us a perfect Book. That way we could know His will for our life.