The covenant of Daniel 9 :27

[Laodicea]

It is also the same as the OT in that it never saved (eternally) one person who ever lived in the earth. The OT people were saved by the same gospel we have, the difference being they looked forward, and we look back.

the old covenant had two purposes.
1. To show us our need for a savior
2. To show Gods people what they needed to do to receive Gods blessings and live the lfe God gave them. To Israel it was as a nation. to the church it is as individuals.

Israels mistake is that they thought it saved them, and made them righteous. Sadly many in the so called church believe the same

Yes I agree Keeping the Law or the sabbath will never save anyone and anyone that teaches otherwise is teaching Babylonian doctrine of salvation by works. The Bible is clear we are saved by grace through faith and we keep the Law because we love God.

 

[Laodicea]

1. When did Christ "confirm" a 7 year covenant"?
2. When a leader "confirms a covenant" it in no way means he has to "fulfill" the covenant until it ends. many leaders, nations etc etc have broken their covenants before they were completed.
3. As per number 2. I disagree. why?

again, going in order of events according to gabriel.

26 “ And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

We have two "he's" here;
1. messiah the prince
2. The prince who is to come (who comes from the people who destroy the sanctuary (rome) thus he will be a roman leader)

In order (so far) these things happen.

1. After 69 weeks. messiah gets cut off (killed) (fulfilled on the cross)
2. After this, the People of the future prince will destroy the city and sanctuary (fulfilled 70 AD)
3. This period will continue until the "end of wars and desolations are determined. (thus we are not given a time period of this period.)

then things continue: (at the end)

27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate.”

1. He confirms a covenant with many for one week (7 years)
2. In the middle of this week, He cuts off sacrifice and burnt offering by commiting the Abomination of desolation (he desecrates the inner sanctum?
3. This desecration will continue until the "Consumation is poured out on the desolate" (it will continue for a time which is determined by God)

in conclusion. The "He" is the one who commits the abomination. Thus unless you think "Christ" committed this abomination. The "he " can not be Christ. but the future roman leader, who confirms a covenant for 1 week (7 years) Remember, Christ himself said, When you see the abomination spoken of in daniel "the he" run!

[FONT=&quot]City and People[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]“Restore and build Jerusalem” (457 BC)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Ezra 6:14-15[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](14) And the elders of the Jews builded, and they prospered through the prophesying of Haggai the prophet and Zechariah the son of Iddo. And they builded, and finished it, according to the commandment of the God of Israel, and according to the commandment of Cyrus, and Darius, and Artaxerxes king of Persia.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](15) And this house was finished on the third day of the month Adar, which was in the sixth year of the reign of Darius the king.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]“seven weeks”[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]“the street shall be built again, and the[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]wall, even in troublous times”[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]“the people of the Prince that shall come[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]shall destroy the city and the sanctuary[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]and the end thereof shall be with a flood”[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Messiah the Prince[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]“Messiah the Prince”[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]“threescore and two Weeks”[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]“after threescore and two weeks shall[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Messiah be cut off”[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]“He [the Prince] shall confirm the[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]covenant with many for one week: and[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]in the midst of the week he shall cause[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]the sacrifice and the oblation to cease”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
Daniel 9:26-27[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](26)[/FONT][FONT=&quot] And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince (Israel) that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](27)[/FONT][FONT=&quot] And he[/FONT][FONT=&quot] (Messiah)[/FONT][FONT=&quot] shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he (Messiah) shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Daniel 9:2[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](2)[/FONT][FONT=&quot] In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Daniel 9:13-15[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](13)[/FONT][FONT=&quot] As it is written in the law of Moses, all this evil is come upon us: yet made we not our prayer before the LORD our God, that we might turn from our iniquities, and understand thy truth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](14)[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Therefore hath the LORD watched upon the evil, and brought it upon us: for the LORD our God is righteous in all his works which he doeth: for we obeyed not his voice.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] (15)[/FONT][FONT=&quot] And now, O Lord our God, that hast brought thy people forth out of the land of Egypt with a mighty hand, and hast gotten thee renown, as at this day; we have sinned, we have done wickedly.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Jeremiah 38:17-18, 23[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](17)[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Then said Jeremiah unto Zedekiah, Thus saith the LORD, the God of hosts, the God of Israel; If thou wilt assuredly go forth unto the king of Babylon's princes, then thy soul shall live, and this city shall not be burned with fire; and thou shalt live, and thine house:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](18)[/FONT][FONT=&quot] But if thou wilt not go forth to the king of Babylon's princes, then shall this city be given into the hand of the Chaldeans, and they shall burn it with fire, and thou shalt not escape out of their hand.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] (23) So they shall bring out all thy wives and thy children to the Chaldeans: and thou shalt not escape out of their hand, but shalt be taken by the hand of the king of Babylon: and thou shalt cause this city to be burned with fire.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Jeremiah 27:6[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](6) And now have I given all these lands into the hand of Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon, my servant; and the beasts of the field have I given him also to serve him.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Because of the sins of Israel God allowed Jerusalem to be destroyed.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]In verse 26, after Messiah was cut off, Jerusalem was destroyed. And in verse 27, Jerusalem was destroyed after the Prince caused the sacrifice and oblation to cease! The critical question at this juncture is, does the New Testament shed any light on how the destiny of the Messiah is linked to the fate of the second city and temple? The answer is a resounding yes![/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Of particular significance is the parable of Matthew 21:33-44 where Jesus reviewed the[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]history of Israel in five stages:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Stage # 1[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]: God sent servants to Israel to gather fruit in harvest season but Israel rejected[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]God’s messengers (verses 34-35).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Stage # 2[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]: God then sent more servants and Israel did the same with them (verse 36).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Stage # [/FONT] [FONT=&quot]3: God then sent them His own Son and they killed Him (verses 37-39).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Stage # 4[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]: The wicked men who killed the Son were destroyed (verse 41)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Stage # 5[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]: The kingdom was taken from Israel and given to the Gentiles (verse 43; Acts[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]13:46-47).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]These five stages of Israel’s history as described in Matthew 21:33-44 parallel very closely the same stages of Israel’s history as described in Daniel 9:[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]Daniel 9:25 has the Messiah appearing at the end of 69 weeks which Jesus fulfilled at His baptism
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mark 1:15
(15) And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]Then in Daniel 9:26 has Him cut off after 69 weeks. Now Jesus ministry lasted for 3.5 years, so was Jesus baptized and crucified in the same year? No Verse 27 gives more info. That is how Daniel 9 the last few verses are working.
[/FONT]

 

[eternally-gratefull]

[FONT=&quot]City and People[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]“Restore and build Jerusalem” (457 BC)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Ezra 6:14-15[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](14) And the elders of the Jews builded, and they prospered through the prophesying of Haggai the prophet and Zechariah the son of Iddo. And they builded, and finished it, according to the commandment of the God of Israel, and according to the commandment of Cyrus, and Darius, and Artaxerxes king of Persia.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](15) And this house was finished on the third day of the month Adar, which was in the sixth year of the reign of Darius the king.[/FONT]

Ezra 6: 3 In the first year of King Cyrus, King Cyrus issued a decree concerning the house of God at Jerusalem: “Let the house be rebuilt, the place where they offered sacrifices; and let the foundations of it be firmly laid, its height sixty cubits and its width sixty cubits, 4 with three rows of heavy stones and one row of new timber. Let the expenses be paid from the king’s treasury. 5 Also let the gold and silver articles of the house of God, which Nebuchadnezzar took from the temple which is in Jerusalem and brought to Babylon, be restored and taken back to the temple which is in Jerusalem, each to its place; and deposit them in the house of God”—

This decree just restors the temple. The prophesy in Daniel refers to the decree to rebuild the city.



Neh 2
1 And it came to pass in the month of Nisan, in the twentieth year of King Artaxerxes, when wine was before him, that I took the wine and gave it to the king. Now I had never been sad in his presence before. 2 Therefore the king said to me, “Why is your face sad, since you are not sick? This is nothing but sorrow of heart.” So I became dreadfully afraid, 3 and said to the king, “May the king live forever! Why should my face not be sad, when the city, the place of my fathers’ tombs, lies waste, and its gates are burned with fire?” 4 Then the king said to me, “What do you request?” So I prayed to the God of heaven. 5 And I said to the king, “If it pleases the king, and if your servant has found favor in your sight, I ask that you send me to Judah, to the city of my fathers’ tombs, that I may rebuild it.” 6 Then the king said to me (the queen also sitting beside him), “How long will your journey be? And when will you return?” So it pleased the king to send me; and I set him a time. 7 Furthermore I said to the king, “If it pleases the king, let letters be given to me for the governors of the region beyond the River,[a] that they must permit me to pass through till I come to Judah, 8 and a letter to Asaph the keeper of the king’s forest, that he must give me timber to make beams for the gates of the citadel which pertains to the temple, for the city wall, and for the house that I will occupy.” And the king granted them to me according to the good hand of my God upon me.

This is when the decree to rebuild the city came, In 445 BC

 

[eternally-gratefull]

[FONT=&quot]“seven weeks”[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]“the street shall be built again, and the[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]wall, even in troublous times”[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]“the people of the Prince that shall come[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]shall destroy the city and the sanctuary[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]and the end thereof shall be with a flood”[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Messiah the Prince[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]“Messiah the Prince”[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]“threescore and two Weeks”[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]“after threescore and two weeks shall[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Messiah be cut off”[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]“He [the Prince] shall confirm the[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]covenant with many for one week: and[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]in the midst of the week he shall cause[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]the sacrifice and the oblation to cease”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
Daniel 9:26-27[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](26)[/FONT][FONT=&quot] And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince (Israel) that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.[/FONT]

My friend. Did Isreal destroy the temple? Rome destroyed the sanctuary. A man by the name of Titus destroyed it with his army in 70 AD. The prince comes from these people. Thus he is from rome. Not Isreal.

I will try to get to the rest of this later. Unfortunately, I have to go back to work again

[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

 

[Laodicea]

My friend. Did Isreal destroy the temple? Rome destroyed the sanctuary. A man by the name of Titus destroyed it with his army in 70 AD. The prince comes from these people. Thus he is from rome. Not Isreal.

I will try to get to the rest of this later. Unfortunately, I have to go back to work again

[/color][/size][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

God allowed Rome to destroy the city because of the sins of Israel in the time of Christ just as God allowed Babylon to destroy the city because of Israel's sins. If Israel were faithful and accepted Christ it would have been a different story.

God Bless

 

[eternally-gratefull]

God allowed Rome to destroy the city because of the sins of Israel in the time of Christ just as God allowed Babylon to destroy the city because of Israel's sins. If Israel were faithful and accepted Christ it would have been a different story.

God Bless

Yes. God allowed rome to destroy Jerusalem because of of the sins of Israel. Actually because of Lev 26. As punishment for turning from him. For the same reason they were in Babylonian captivity during Daniels time. But that is not the point.

the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.

Israel does not destroy the city. The people of the future prince do. Since Rome destroyed the city and sanctuary. The prince must then come from Rome. Not Israel.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

[FONT=&quot]
Daniel 9:26-27[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](26)[/FONT][FONT=&quot] And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince (Israel) that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](27)[/FONT][FONT=&quot] And he[/FONT][FONT=&quot] (Messiah)[/FONT][FONT=&quot] shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he (Messiah) shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.[/FONT]

As we have already seen. The prince is from the "people" who destroy the city and temple. thus could not be the messiah.

Now your saying the messiah "he" commits the abomination of desolation. In which he speaks about while he was here? This makes no sense whatsoever.

[FONT=&quot]Daniel 9:2[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](2)[/FONT][FONT=&quot] In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Daniel 9:13-15[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](13)[/FONT][FONT=&quot] As it is written in the law of Moses, all this evil is come upon us: yet made we not our prayer before the LORD our God, that we might turn from our iniquities, and understand thy truth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](14)[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Therefore hath the LORD watched upon the evil, and brought it upon us: for the LORD our God is righteous in all his works which he doeth: for we obeyed not his voice.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] (15)[/FONT][FONT=&quot] And now, O Lord our God, that hast brought thy people forth out of the land of Egypt with a mighty hand, and hast gotten thee renown, as at this day; we have sinned, we have done wickedly.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Jeremiah 38:17-18, 23[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](17)[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Then said Jeremiah unto Zedekiah, Thus saith the LORD, the God of hosts, the God of Israel; If thou wilt assuredly go forth unto the king of Babylon's princes, then thy soul shall live, and this city shall not be burned with fire; and thou shalt live, and thine house:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](18)[/FONT][FONT=&quot] But if thou wilt not go forth to the king of Babylon's princes, then shall this city be given into the hand of the Chaldeans, and they shall burn it with fire, and thou shalt not escape out of their hand.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] (23) So they shall bring out all thy wives and thy children to the Chaldeans: and thou shalt not escape out of their hand, but shalt be taken by the hand of the king of Babylon: and thou shalt cause this city to be burned with fire.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Jeremiah 27:6[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](6) And now have I given all these lands into the hand of Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon, my servant; and the beasts of the field have I given him also to serve him.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Because of the sins of Israel God allowed Jerusalem to be destroyed.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]In verse 26, after Messiah was cut off, Jerusalem was destroyed. And in verse 27, Jerusalem was destroyed after the Prince caused the sacrifice and oblation to cease! The critical question at this juncture is, does the New Testament shed any light on how the destiny of the Messiah is linked to the fate of the second city and temple? The answer is a resounding yes![/FONT]

Ok, Now I am really confused. Jeremiah spoke of the burning and destruction of the city and temple by the babylonians. Which occured during Daniel's time, and why he was taken to Babylon in the first place. And your trying to tie that with the destruction by Rome in 70 AD?

You do know that the reason Daniel was praying and making supplication was because he knew the 70 years predicted by Jeremiah was comming to the end do you not? It is not related.

[FONT=&quot]

Of particular significance is the parable of Matthew 21:33-44 where Jesus reviewed the

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]history of Israel in five stages:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Stage # 1[/FONT][FONT=&quot]: God sent servants to Israel to gather fruit in harvest season but Israel rejected[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]God’s messengers (verses 34-35).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Stage # 2[/FONT][FONT=&quot]: God then sent more servants and Israel did the same with them (verse 36).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Stage # [/FONT] [FONT=&quot]3: God then sent them His own Son and they killed Him (verses 37-39).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Stage # 4[/FONT][FONT=&quot]: The wicked men who killed the Son were destroyed (verse 41)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Stage # 5[/FONT][FONT=&quot]: The kingdom was taken from Israel and given to the Gentiles (verse 43; Acts[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]13:46-47).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]These five stages of Israel’s history as described in Matthew 21:33-44 parallel very closely the same stages of Israel’s history as described in Daniel 9:[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]Daniel 9:25 has the Messiah appearing at the end of 69 weeks which Jesus fulfilled at His baptism
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mark 1:15
(15) And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.[/FONT]

your three years off. In fact even more. If the command to restore and rebuild jerusalem was given in 457 BC, (As you say) and we then take 69 weeks of 7 year periods Using the Hebrew calendar of 360 days per year, that would be 483 years. (However when we convert that to the modern day calender, it adds up to only 476 years). thus Christ would be in his teens when the 69 years of sevens was completed. and not 30 (when he was baptized.) the date coming on or about 19 AD

However if we use the date to rebuild the "city" at 445 bc, the 69 years would have ended sometime around 31 BC, When Jesus would have entered jerusalem on a donkey, and thus "introduced as messiah the prince" Thus we have the "literal fulfilment of the first 69 sevens.

[FONT=&quot]Then in Daniel 9:26 has Him cut off after 69 weeks. Now Jesus ministry lasted for 3.5 years, so was Jesus baptized and crucified in the same year? No Verse 27 gives more info. That is how Daniel 9 the last few verses are working.
[/FONT]

Yet again, if we use 445 BC as the begining. Jesus is introduced as messia a week before he is killed "cut off" thus we have prophesy literally being fullfilled.

Messiah the prince is introduced at the very end of 69 weeks. and then he is "cut off"

the rest of the stuff in the prophesy follows the "cutting off" and does not fit in a 7 year time frame or "70th" week.

 

[peterT]

[FONT=&quot]Then in Daniel 9:26 has Him cut off after 69 weeks. Now Jesus ministry lasted for 3.5 years, so was Jesus baptized and crucified in the same year? No Verse 27 gives more info. That is how Daniel 9 the last few verses are working. [/FONT]

Hi Laodicea. He eternally-gratefull puts up a good fight, the best I have ever seen showing that “HE” in Daniel 9;27 is the antichrist.

I know you don’t agree, but at least you can see where this doctrine came from and why 1000s of others like me believe it.

Daniel 9;27 And HE shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[Laodicea]

This is the original post for any who may have missed it. The purpose of this thread is to discuss what is the covenant of Daniel 9, it is not to discuss the time periods of Daniel 9.

There is no covenant made in Daniel 9:27 it says He confirms the covenant it does not say He makes a covenant. So what is the covenant?
Daniel 9:4
(4) And I prayed unto the LORD my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments;

Paul understood about the covenant
Galatians 3:16-17
(16) Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
(17) And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

So it is referring to the covenant made with Abraham
Genesis 12:1-3
(1) Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
(2) And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
(3) And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
Genesis 17:8
(8) And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

Abraham understood this to be the new earth
Hebrews 11:10
(10) For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

The covenant was made to the seed (Christ) and anyone who wants to inherit the new earth must belong to the seed
Galatians 3:16
(16) Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Galatians 3:29
(29) And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Did Christ say we need to belong to Him?
John 10:28
(28) And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

What did the apostles say?
Acts 4:10-12
(10) Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
(11) This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
(12) Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

There is much more about the covenant in the new testament but, it is about inheriting the new earth and we need to belong to Christ to inherit the new earth.

 

[Laodicea]

Here are some more verses on the covenant
Isaiah 42:6
(6) I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
Luke 2:27-32
(27) And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law,
(28) Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said,
(29) Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word:
(30) For mine eyes have seen thy salvation,
(31) Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people;
(32) A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.

Romans 15:8
(8) Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:
Galatians 3:16-17
(16) Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
(17) And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Notice that these verses say that Christ confirmed the covenant. The covenant made to Abraham are all promises of God

 

[Shilo]

Eternally grearful I have never heard your view before. Thanks I will look into it.

 

[Avinu]

Here are some more verses on the covenant
Isaiah 42:6
(6) I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
Luke 2:27-32
(27) And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law,
(28) Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said,
(29) Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word:
(30) For mine eyes have seen thy salvation,
(31) Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people;
(32) A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.

Romans 15:8
(8) Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:
Galatians 3:16-17
(16) Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
(17) And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Notice that these verses say that Christ confirmed the covenant. The covenant made to Abraham are all promises of God

Hey brother, everything you have here is right on. But the in Daniel 9:27 it doesn't say in the original text that he confirms that he makes a 'firm covenant' with many. Also remember, that 'he' is lower case, showing this is not refering to Messiah. There are 4 different people in scripture that are called princes. Yeshua is one, Michael the arch angel is another, Joshua in Zech. 2 (not to be confused with Joshua who led Israel into Egypt) and anti-christ.
Even though Yeshua is partly in Daniel 9, in the original text He is gone by verse 26, then 'the one who is to come' of the people who destroy the sanctuary. So here again, Yeshua didn't destroy the sanctuary, He didn't bring an abomination of desolation upon the temple, and also He didn't put an end to sacrifice and offering except for the sacrifice for sin unto death.

 

[Laodicea]

Hey brother, everything you have here is right on. But the in Daniel 9:27 it doesn't say in the original text that he confirms that he makes a 'firm covenant' with many. Also remember, that 'he' is lower case, showing this is not refering to Messiah. There are 4 different people in scripture that are called princes. Yeshua is one, Michael the arch angel is another, Joshua in Zech. 2 (not to be confused with Joshua who led Israel into Egypt) and anti-christ.
Even though Yeshua is partly in Daniel 9, in the original text He is gone by verse 26, then 'the one who is to come' of the people who destroy the sanctuary. So here again, Yeshua didn't destroy the sanctuary, He didn't bring an abomination of desolation upon the temple, and also He didn't put an end to sacrifice and offering except for the sacrifice for sin unto death.

Yes but, notice that the verses I quoted say that Christ confirmed the covenant. That explains Daniel 9 for we need to take more than one verse to form a doctrine. Do you have any other verses to support the other doctrine?

 

[Avinu]

Yes but, notice that the verses I quoted say that Christ confirmed the covenant. That explains Daniel 9 for we need to take more than one verse to form a doctrine. Do you have any other verses to support the other doctrine?
__________________

Matt. 24:15 talks about it, 'abomination of desolation' from Daniel 9:27. It even says "spoken of by Daniel" Daniel 13:14
Again, Yeshua does not bring the abomination of desolation which the one making a firm covenant does.

 

[Laodicea]

Matt. 24:15 talks about it, 'abomination of desolation' from Daniel 9:27. It even says "spoken of by Daniel" Daniel 13:14
Again, Yeshua does not bring the abomination of desolation which the one making a firm covenant does.

Jesus does not bring the abomination of desolation but, because of the sins of Israel in rejecting Christ God allowed it and Rome destroyed the city in 70 AD. Now the abomination is a subject for a different thread but what I read in the Bible it is referring to idols.
1 Kings 11:5-7
(5) For Solomon went after Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians, and after Milcom the abomination of the Ammonites.
(6) And Solomon did evil in the sight of the LORD, and went not fully after the LORD, as did David his father.
(7) Then did Solomon build an high place for Chemosh, the abomination of Moab, in the hill that is before Jerusalem, and for Molech, the abomination of the children of Ammon.

Rome placed their idols in the temple and that was a sign

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This is the original post for any who may have missed it. The purpose of this thread is to discuss what is the covenant of Daniel 9, it is not to discuss the time periods of Daniel 9.

There is no covenant made in Daniel 9:27 it says He confirms the covenant it does not say He makes a covenant. So what is the covenant?
Daniel 9:4
(4) And I prayed unto the LORD my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments;

Paul understood about the covenant
Galatians 3:16-17
(16) Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
(17) And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

So it is referring to the covenant made with Abraham
Genesis 12:1-3
(1) Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
(2) And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
(3) And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
Genesis 17:8
(8) And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

Abraham understood this to be the new earth
Hebrews 11:10
(10) For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

The covenant was made to the seed (Christ) and anyone who wants to inherit the new earth must belong to the seed
Galatians 3:16
(16) Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Galatians 3:29
(29) And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Did Christ say we need to belong to Him?
John 10:28
(28) And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

What did the apostles say?
Acts 4:10-12
(10) Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
(11) This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
(12) Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

There is much more about the covenant in the new testament but, it is about inheriting the new earth and we need to belong to Christ to inherit the new earth.

Yu make a good argument. Unfortunately your argument does not hold. why? Because unless "christ" is the he, the covenant in the first part of daniel 9 is not the same as the covenant in the later part.

Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
(messiah is killed by the romans)
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
(The people who destroy the temple is the romans, the prince who is to come will come from this people)
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.
(After the temple and city is destroyed. there will be many wars, jesus spoke of these wars when he said "there will be wars and rumors of wars, but the end is not near" which proves that between the destruction of the city and the start of the end there will be some great period of time, in which many wars will be fought)
27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
(the he is the future prince who is to come, That is why Gabriel mentions this future prince when he said that his people would destroy the city)
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
(Here we see this future prince confirm a coevant (we do not know what it is) but in the middle of his covanent, he breaks it by commiting the baomination of desolation in the ttemple)
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.”
Here we see, that at the end of the time of the abomination and war, The consumation of all God said will be poured out on the desolate, they will be destroyed)

So the covenant can not be the same coveant as spoken of by daniel himself. Because God did not make or confirm it. The future prince will. And the same future prince breaks his own covenant by committing the abomination.,

God did not, nor will he ever, break any of his covenants.

 

[Laodicea]

These are all the texts in Daniel about the covenant
Daniel 9:4
(4) And I prayed unto the LORD my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments;
Daniel 9:27
(27) And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Daniel 11:22
(22) And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant.
Daniel 11:28
(28) Then shall he return into his land with great riches; and his heart shall be against the holy covenant; and he shall do exploits, and return to his own land.
Daniel 11:30
(30) For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.
Daniel 11:32
(32) And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.

Any doctrine cannot be based on one text alone, so if we put all the texts together about the covenant then what is the covenant?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

These are all the texts in Daniel about the covenant
Daniel 9:4
(4) And I prayed unto the LORD my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments;
Daniel 9:27
(27) And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Daniel 11:22
(22) And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant.
Daniel 11:28
(28) Then shall he return into his land with great riches; and his heart shall be against the holy covenant; and he shall do exploits, and return to his own land.
Daniel 11:32
(32) And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.

Any doctrine cannot be based on one text alone, so if we put all the texts together about the covenant then what is the covenant?

It still does not make sense. Just because the two are n the same chapter does not mean they are the same.

1. Daniel is talking about a past covenant God made with Isreal. Which has nothing to do with the church. He is talking about the mosaic covenant. Christ did not confirm that covenant, (see lev 26) this is WHY Daniel was praying, he admitted according to the covenant, His people were rightly judged. And according to Lev 26, Gods covenat with them was that if they did not follow him, but went contrary to him, the last thing he would do would be to destroy the city, the temple, and have a foreign army scatter them over the earth. This is the covenant Daniel was praying about.

Lev 26:
30 I will destroy your high places, cut down your incense altars, and cast your carcasses on the lifeless forms of your idols; and My soul shall abhor you. 31 I will lay your cities waste and bring your sanctuaries to desolation, and I will not smell the fragrance of your sweet aromas. 32 I will bring the land to desolation, and your enemies who dwell in it shall be astonished at it. 33 I will scatter you among the nations and draw out a sword after you; your land shall be desolate and your cities waste. 34 Then the land shall enjoy its sabbaths as long as it lies desolate and you are in your enemies’ land;then the land shall rest and enjoy its sabbaths. 35 As long as it lies desolate it shall rest— for the time it did not rest on your sabbaths when you dwelt in it.


The sabbath here is 70 years. Which is why Babylon did what they did. Jeremiah said it would be for 70 years according to the law of moses. And this is what Daniel meant when he mentioned the covenant. he even mentions aspect of the covenant in his prayer.


O Lord, great and awesome God, who keeps His covenant and mercy with those who love Him, and with those who keep His commandments, 5 we have sinned and committed iniquity, we have done wickedly and rebelled, even by departing from Your precepts and Your judgments. 6 Neither have we heeded Your servants the prophets, who spoke in Your name to our kings and our princes, to our fathers and all the people of the land. 7 O Lord, righteousness belongs to You, but to us shame of face, as it is this day—to the men of Judah, to the inhabitants of Jerusalem and all Israel, those near and those far off in all the countries to which You have driven them, because of the unfaithfulness which they have committed against You.
8 “O Lord, to us belongs shame of face, to our kings, our princes, and our fathers, because we have sinned against You. 9 To the Lord our God belong mercy and forgiveness, though we have rebelled against Him. 10 We have not obeyed the voice of the LORD our God, to walk in His laws, which He set before us by His servants the prophets. 11 Yes, all Israel has transgressed Your law, and has departed so as not to obey Your voice; therefore the curse and the oath written in the Law of Moses the servant of God have been poured out on us, because we have sinned against Him. 12 And He has confirmed His words, which He spoke against us and against our judges who judged us, by bringing upon us a great disaster; for under the whole heaven such has never been done as what has been done to Jerusalem.
13 “As it is written in the Law of Moses, all this disaster has come upon us; yet we have not made our prayer before the LORD our God, that we might turn from our iniquities and understand Your truth. 14 Therefore the LORD has kept the disaster in mind, and brought it upon us; for the LORD our God is righteous in all the works which He does, though we have not obeyed His voice. 15 And now, O Lord our God, who brought Your people out of the land of Egypt with a mighty hand, and made Yourself a name, as it is this day—we have sinned, we have done wickedly!



This same covenant, God says he will bless and show mercy to those who follow his precepts. This is the covenant Daniel spoke of.



2. The one who confirms the covenant is not christ. It is the prince who is to come. He also commits the abomination. It can not be the "messiah" Not to mention. the word "the " is not in the origional text. so I do not see where you are getting this. It is "A" covenant. we are not told what covenant it is. But we know it is not the mosaic covenant spoken of by daniel,

so they can't be the same covenant.

 

[Laodicea]

It still does not make sense. Just because the two are n the same chapter does not mean they are the same.

1. Daniel is talking about a past covenant God made with Isreal. Which has nothing to do with the church. He is talking about the mosaic covenant. Christ did not confirm that covenant, (see lev 26) this is WHY Daniel was praying, he admitted according to the covenant, His people were rightly judged. And according to Lev 26, Gods covenat with them was that if they did not follow him, but went contrary to him, the last thing he would do would be to destroy the city, the temple, and have a foreign army scatter them over the earth. This is the covenant Daniel was praying about.

Lev 26:
30 I will destroy your high places, cut down your incense altars, and cast your carcasses on the lifeless forms of your idols; and My soul shall abhor you. 31 I will lay your cities waste and bring your sanctuaries to desolation, and I will not smell the fragrance of your sweet aromas. 32 I will bring the land to desolation, and your enemies who dwell in it shall be astonished at it. 33 I will scatter you among the nations and draw out a sword after you; your land shall be desolate and your cities waste. 34 Then the land shall enjoy its sabbaths as long as it lies desolate and you are in your enemies’ land;then the land shall rest and enjoy its sabbaths. 35 As long as it lies desolate it shall rest— for the time it did not rest on your sabbaths when you dwelt in it.


The sabbath here is 70 years. Which is why Babylon did what they did. Jeremiah said it would be for 70 years according to the law of moses. And this is what Daniel meant when he mentioned the covenant. he even mentions aspect of the covenant in his prayer.


O Lord, great and awesome God, who keeps His covenant and mercy with those who love Him, and with those who keep His commandments, 5 we have sinned and committed iniquity, we have done wickedly and rebelled, even by departing from Your precepts and Your judgments. 6 Neither have we heeded Your servants the prophets, who spoke in Your name to our kings and our princes, to our fathers and all the people of the land. 7 O Lord, righteousness belongs to You, but to us shame of face, as it is this day—to the men of Judah, to the inhabitants of Jerusalem and all Israel, those near and those far off in all the countries to which You have driven them, because of the unfaithfulness which they have committed against You.
8 “O Lord, to us belongs shame of face, to our kings, our princes, and our fathers, because we have sinned against You. 9 To the Lord our God belong mercy and forgiveness, though we have rebelled against Him. 10 We have not obeyed the voice of the LORD our God, to walk in His laws, which He set before us by His servants the prophets. 11 Yes, all Israel has transgressed Your law, and has departed so as not to obey Your voice; therefore the curse and the oath written in the Law of Moses the servant of God have been poured out on us, because we have sinned against Him. 12 And He has confirmed His words, which He spoke against us and against our judges who judged us, by bringing upon us a great disaster; for under the whole heaven such has never been done as what has been done to Jerusalem.
13 “As it is written in the Law of Moses, all this disaster has come upon us; yet we have not made our prayer before the LORD our God, that we might turn from our iniquities and understand Your truth. 14 Therefore the LORD has kept the disaster in mind, and brought it upon us; for the LORD our God is righteous in all the works which He does, though we have not obeyed His voice. 15 And now, O Lord our God, who brought Your people out of the land of Egypt with a mighty hand, and made Yourself a name, as it is this day—we have sinned, we have done wickedly!



This same covenant, God says he will bless and show mercy to those who follow his precepts. This is the covenant Daniel spoke of.



2. The one who confirms the covenant is not christ. It is the prince who is to come. He also commits the abomination. It can not be the "messiah" Not to mention. the word "the " is not in the origional text. so I do not see where you are getting this. It is "A" covenant. we are not told what covenant it is. But we know it is not the mosaic covenant spoken of by daniel,

so they can't be the same covenant.

If what you are saying is true that the covenant in 9:27 is the covenant by the antichrist then there has to be other texts in the Bible showing more info on it. Can you give more texts?

 

[Avinu]

Brother Laodicea, I gave you more scripture on it in Matt. 24 and Mark 13. They are talking about the same verse in Daniel 9:27