The dead in Christ are only asleep

[InSpiritInTruth]

Luke 11:44 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are as graves which appear not, and the men that walk over them are not aware of them.

And there are people shown as graves as well

Which is interesting because they are also shown as children of hell (grave aka pit)

Matthew 23:15
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Sorry ISIT, that will be the last time I will acknowledge that dude.....ever.

Ya'll try to love one another, even if you disagree, and even if you consider one another the "enemy"; for the Lord said for us to even love our enemies.

 

[MaranathaSoonQuick]

And the crowd goes wild! Lol, what a kick off to controversy.

 

[DesiredHaven]

Which is interesting because they are also shown as children of hell (grave aka pit)

Matthew 23:15
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

The word there is different, but I was (at first) reasoning it as being saved from "this body of" death (as Paul might have) or ransomed from "the grave" (even in that sense). Well, that was when I recall when I first saw that lol

Ye are as graves (or as whited sepulchres) but inwardly they themselves were full of dead [mens] bones right?

So you got walking tombs of dead mens bones (its such a lovely picture) lol

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

The word there is different, but I was (at first) reasoning it as being saved from "this body of" death (as Paul might have) or ransomed from "the grave" (even in that sense). Well, that was when I recall when I first saw that lol

Ye are as graves (or as whited sepulchres) but inwardly they themselves were full of dead [mens] bones right?

So you got walking tombs of dead mens bones (its such a lovely picture) lol

Yeah, the grave by definition can be shown as.....


sheol, underworld, grave, hell, pit

1. the underworld
   
2. 
   Sheol - the OT designation for the abode of the dead
   1. place of no return
      
   2. without praise of God
      
   3. wicked sent there for punishment
      
   4. righteous not abandoned to it
      
   5. of the place of exile (fig)
      
   6. of extreme degradation in sin
      
      So in a spiritual sense you can see how Jesus words concerning them being as a grave, or child of hell can give new insights, and perhaps even a whole new revelation into what the Spirit is saying there.
      
      
      
      
      
      

 

[MyLighthouse]

The dead in Christ all slumber the wicked are the ones who have no rest

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

The dead in Christ all slumber the wicked are the ones who have no rest

Revelation 14:11
And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Revelation 14:13
And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

 

[DesiredHaven]

Yeah, the grave by definition can be shown as.....


sheol, underworld, grave, hell, pit

1. the underworld
2. 
   Sheol - the OT designation for the abode of the dead
   1. place of no return
   2. without praise of God
   3. wicked sent there for punishment
   4. righteous not abandoned to it
   5. of the place of exile (fig)
   6. of extreme degradation in sin
      
      So in a spiritual sense you can see how Jesus words concerning them being as a grave, or child of hell can give new insights, and perhaps even a whole new revelation into what the Spirit is saying there.

Yeah I can see it coming in at it at a different way because the word used there (for graves) is not the same word used for O grave (as in hades) that being


This one graves [SUP]G3419 or [/SUP]mnēmeion

Luke 11:44 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are as graves [SUP]G3419[/SUP] which appear not, and the men that walk over them are not aware of them.



AS graves in one sense of it

Not particularly the O grave hadēs as shown in the Greek (or Hebrew sheowl)
or O death thanatos in the Greek (or Hebrew maveth) given its an OT verse

Child of hell (there) seems to be the word geenna and Paul's use of the body of this death (thanatos/ maveth) is comparable, he uses the same word used there.​

One or the other depending on how its used, or how you come in at it. But even Jesus said ye are AS graves, (mnemeion)which can be easily compared to the same too.

So its all good I would think, yes.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Yeah I can see it coming in at it at a different way because the word used there (for graves) is not the same word used for O grave (as in hades) that being


This one graves [SUP]G3419 or [/SUP]mnēmeion

Luke 11:44 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are as graves [SUP]G3419[/SUP] which appear not, and the men that walk over them are not aware of them.

View attachment 102453

AS graves in one sense of it

Not particularly the O grave hadēs as shown in the Greek (or Hebrew sheowl)
or O death thanatos in the Greek (or Hebrew maveth) given its an OT verse

Child of hell (there) seems to be the word geenna and Paul's use of the body of this death (thanatos/ maveth) is comparable, he uses the same word used there.​

One or the other depending on how its used, or how you come in at it. But even Jesus said ye are AS graves, (mnemeion)which can be easily compared to the same too.

So its all good I would think, yes.

Yeah, I was looking at the Hebrew for "grave" H7585 here....The KJV translates Strongs H7585 in the following manner: grave (31x), hell (31x), pit (3x).

It's an interesting concept being the children of.....either of hell...or of the kingdom of heaven. After all Jesus did say the Kingdom of Heaven was in us.

 

[DesiredHaven]

Yeah, I was looking at the Hebrew for "grave" H7585 here....The KJV translates Strongs H7585 in the following manner: grave (31x), hell (31x), pit (3x).

It's an interesting concept being the children of.....either of hell...or of the kingdom of heaven. After all Jesus did say the Kingdom of Heaven was in us.

Well yeah, I mean consider what James even said, he said the tongue is set on fire of geenna as well right?

And proverbs says the tongue has the power of life and death (and those who love it shall eat its fruit).

Then when you search what is shown as holding "the power of death" (interchangably so) it lands you at two places, the tongue and the devil. But the same is true of which Spirit we follow, or which one works in us. The body of Christ is so by His Spirit (and we are to be of our Father) through the same, and then there of those of another father (ye are of your father the devil) and the lusts of your father ye will do.

I agree both could be shown within in similar ways (and contrasting ways) too.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Well yeah, I mean consider what James even said, he said the tongue is set on fire of geenna as well right?

And proverbs says the tongue has the power of life and death (and those who love it shall eat its fruit).

Then when you search what is shown as holding "the power of death" (interchangably so) it lands you at two places, the tongue and the devil. But the same is true of which Spirit we follow, or which one works in us. The body of Christ is so by His Spirit (and we are to be of our Father) through the same, and then there of those of another father (ye are of your father the devil) and the lusts of your father ye will do.

I agree both could be shown within in similar ways (and contrasting ways) too.

Yes, it depends on which spirit dwells within the temple of our bodies, whether it be the spirit of a lie=death; or the Spirit of Truth=Life.

 

[DesiredHaven]

Yes, it depends on which spirit dwells within the temple of our bodies, whether it be the spirit of a lie=death; or the Spirit of Truth=Life.

Yes you can do quite a few contrasts I agree.

 

[valiant]

Think about this, why do you think Paul used the words the "dead" in Christ when surely he understood this....

Matthew 22:32
I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

Mark 12:27
He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.

Luke 20:38
For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.

I believe Paul was speaking in a mystery when he used the words "dead" in Christ.

because he was referring to their physical state. their bodies were dead and appeared to be asleep. But their spirits were very much alive and with Christ (Phil 1.21, 23; 2 Cor 5.6-8).

 

[jb]

Sleep is only physical, not spiritual.

Exactly, at physical death, it is the body that sleeps, the soul continues to be conscious...

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

because he was referring to their physical state. their bodies were dead and appeared to be asleep. But their spirits were very much alive and with Christ (Phil 1.21, 23; 2 Cor 5.6-8).

Yeah, I can see that because both the dead in Christ and those who sleep in Jesus are mentioned....

1 Thessalonians 4:14-18[SUP]14 [/SUP]For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Wherefore comfort one another with these words."

But you'll also see the souls of them in heaven are told to rest for a little season...

Revelation 6:9-11
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled."

But concerning the removing of ungodliness from Jacob after the fullness of the Gentiles, and the resurrection of Israel as Paul said,"life from the dead" I believe it may speak of more than just a physical resurrection.


Romans 11:15
For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

 

[DesiredHaven]

It does says as touching the resurrection of the dead that he is the God of Abraham Isaac, and Jacob he is not the God of the dead but of the living (and this was said to Moses)

Whereas Paul said (of Christ, who is the resurrection)

For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

There is another reference to both the dead and the living and that he might be Lord of both

Jesus being the true bread (God gives) said these were dead

John 6:58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna,and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

And Paul says the dead are here also

Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

One was touching the resurrection of the dead

 

[Jeff_56]

Exactly, at physical death, it is the body that sleeps, the soul continues to be conscious...

only in that there is no time or sense of time in the spirit. according to all of GOD'S WORD, between the time someone dies and is resurrected they do nothing. but it seems as if no time at all.

 

[Stephen63]

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

Ephesians 5:14
Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.

1 Thessalonians 5:6
Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

Mark 13:35-37Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:
[SUP]36 [/SUP]Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.
[SUP]37 [/SUP]And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

The subject is "dead in Christ", the righteous dead. It's not about the church being lulled to sleep by the Devil.

 

[kedge]

When someone reads the Bible, do you read on the lines or between the lines?, how does anyone decipher this apparent code?, and then into simple understanding?.

 

[Stephen63]

Those who spiritually sleep, sleep in the darkness.

1 Corinthians 15:34
Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

The righteous dead are NOT spiritually dead. WHY do you insist on talking about the spiritually dead when it has NOTHING to do with this thread? This argument doesn't belong here. If you want to discuss it, fine....... make your own thread. Instead of righteously dividing the Word of truth, yer mixing two totally different subjects together.