The easy way to spot a false grace message

[BenFTW]

Is this like "Fake it 'til you make it"? "I am sinless" and then in being in denial one day you'll hopefully be just that, practically? I mean, according to God's word we are dead to sin and alive unto God. We serve in the newness of the spirit. We need to renew our minds to God's truth of who He says we are, and what we are. Who being God's children, born again made new creations. What being fallible human beings on a journey, going through God's process of sanctification.

For all we know InSpiritInTruth may be speaking in faith, to hopefully obtain the freedom God's words speak of. To be free from sin, not just its penalty, but its dominion in this life. He very well may be struggling with a particular sin, but God is faithful to sanctify him. Often times it seems he preaches sinless perfectionism, but just maybe he is attempting to be in faith to God's deliverance. To set him free.

We don't know his personal struggles, and what he may or may not be hiding behind the curtain. Yet, we can encourage him that God is faithful and will sanctify him. Whether he believes he is perfect or not, God knows his heart and walk. What areas he needs perfecting God can clean.

InSpiritInTruth hold to God's Word. Whether you're struggling with something or not I do not know, but just know that God doesn't condemn you. He loves you, and if you're struggling with something He is the one that gives us the grace and strength to overcome. Where there is temptation He gives the escape.

 

[Blain]

Is this like "Fake it 'til you make it"? "I am sinless" and then in being in denial one day you'll hopefully be just that, practically? I mean, according to God's word we are dead to sin and alive unto God. We serve in the newness of the spirit. We need to renew our minds to God's truth of who He says we are, and what we are. Who being God's children, born again made new creations. What being fallible human beings on a journey, going through God's process of sanctification.

For all we know InSpiritInTruth may be speaking in faith, to hopefully obtain the freedom God's words speak of. To be free from sin, not just its penalty, but its dominion in this life. He very well may be struggling with a particular sin, but God is faithful to sanctify him. Often times it seems he preaches sinless perfectionism, but just maybe he is attempting to be in faith to God's deliverance. To set him free.

We don't know his personal struggles, and what he may or may not be hiding behind the curtain. Yet, we can encourage him that God is faithful and will sanctify him. Whether he believes he is perfect or not, God knows his heart and walk. What areas he needs perfecting God can clean.

InSpiritInTruth hold to God's Word. Whether you're struggling with something or not I do not know, but just know that God doesn't condemn you. He loves you, and if you're struggling with something He is the one that gives us the grace and strength to overcome. Where there is temptation He gives the escape.

Ben you have the purest heart also you look exactly like my adopted brother ben just with a beard lol

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

I don't use the scriptures to prove myself right I have more respect for the word of God than that, you post scriptures thinking the fact you post them makes what you say valid but as with everything else in life and in faith the heart behind it is the deciding factor. You can post all the scriptures you want but that doesn't make what you say valid, and I am not obligated to post scriptures nor is anyone else I use the scriptures to help others not to prove myself right

And that speaks to the heart of the problem, you think your own thoughts and words are more valid than the words of God which I post. So in short, you ignore the words of God I preach and you instead try to justify your own sinful actions by what you think is right in your own eyes. Sadly this is the case with many.

Proverbs 12:15
The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.

 

[Stephen63]

the problem is that you think you understand what hypergrace is but I am not going into that debate again mainly because it's not allowed but I can assure you doctrine has the power to destroy lives in fact had God not done what he did I would have given up on my faith because I thought myself to weak to be able to walk in Christ all because of the sinless doctrine

So, you go from one extreme to the other?

You, sir are one that doesn't know which end is up.

 

[Blain]

And that speaks to the heart of the problem, you think your own thoughts and words are more valid than the words of God which I post. So in short, you ignore the words of God I preach and you instead try to justify your own sinful actions by what you think is right in your own eyes. Sadly this is the case with many.

Proverbs 12:15
The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.

It's not the word of God that I am against it's your words, anyone can use scripture to fit what they say but only a person who truly understands can use his word the right way. You use it to prove what you say I get that and you don't like that I don't use it to prove what I say but even if I did what good would it do?

I am not in this debate to prove myself right I am in it to teach you where your in error I am not trying to attack you or slander you and if it appears as if I am then I apologize. My main question and issue is why you cannot give a straight answer when asked the questions you were asked you neither approve nor deny the sinless doctrine yet your words and the scriptures you post imply it very strongly, And I just want to know if you teach it believe it and think yourself as sinless because I don't want to accuse you of something that isn't true but you never give a direct answer

 

[Blain]

So, you go from one extreme to the other?

You, sir are one that doesn't know which end is up.

I went from being certain I was hell bound to being showered by his love and grace. I will explain to you grace from my perspective- I do not fear hell or beat myself up for my sins and screw ups nor do I judge my salvation and my standing in God's eyes because of them because his grace has washed over me and while I don't constantly say I am sorry for all my sins though I do on many of them I have a repentant heart.

Grace is not a free ticket to sin and is not an excuse for our sins but a person who knows their sins and their weakness is all the more grateful for his grace. What you call extreme I call resting in grace able to keep heading forward no matter how many times I may fall not because i abuse his grace but because I am grateful for it.

Those who understand and are grateful for his grace will never abuse it

 

[Magenta]

Blain, he has admitted before that he still sins. Of course his sins are much less in his eyes than the sin he believes others here are committing on some kind of regular basis... that is certainly the vibe put out. He knows he cannot say he is without sin, for Scripture then condemns him there, too. But somehow the fact that he is a sinner just like the rest of us escapes his attention. He is better than the other sinners. His sins are little boo boos. They are accidents or something. Who knows how they justify coming here to lie about what people teach while teaching sinless perfection which is also a lie.

 

[Blain]

Blain, he has admitted before that he still sins. Of course his sins are much less in his eyes than the sin he believes others here are committing on some kind of regular basis... that is certainly the vibe put out. He knows he cannot say he is without sin, for Scripture then condemns him there, too. But somehow the fact that he is a sinner just like the rest of us escapes his attention. He is better than the other sinners. His sins are little boo boos. They are accidents or something. Who knows how they justify coming here to lie about what people teach while teaching sinless perfection which is also a lie.

So then he at least doesn't claim to be perfect and sinless but was I wrong in my understanding that he teaches the sinless doctrine?

 

[Magenta]

So then he at least doesn't claim to be perfect and sinless but was I wrong in my understanding that he teaches the sinless doctrine?

Oh no, he teaches the sinless perfection doctrine all right, and that is why he is always asked if he still sins, because it catches him in the same net he is hoping to catch others in. Still he believes his sins to be less somehow. We may never get to the bottom of that one. I believe the sin he talks about is unbelief, but HE does not know that is what he is talking about

 

[Blain]

Oh no, he teaches the sinless perfection doctrine all right, and that is why he is always asked if he still sins, because it catches him in the same net he is hoping to catch others in. Still he believes his sins to be less somehow. We may never get to the bottom of that one. I believe the sin he talks about is unbelief, but HE does not know that is what he is talking about

Ok I just wanted to make sure I was not misunderstanding him and knowing how you have a greater understanding and wisdom than I do I had to ask. Though i admit that I very much want to stop sinning as much as I do as it's becoming extremely irritating to me so if you could would you pray for me? I am sick of screwing up as much as I do but self control is my greatest weakness

 

[fredoheaven]

This is what I teach---->>>>

I have heard so many lies and false doctrine being spread about how ongoing sin will not effect your eternal security in Christ. I am going to prove this idea totally false by the words of Jesus. If you truly believe in Jesus Christ, then you will also believe and continue in His words right? Well here goes….

John 8:31-36 “Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;[SUP]32 [/SUP]And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.[SUP]33 [/SUP]They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
[SUP]34 [/SUP]Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.[SUP]35 [/SUP]And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.[SUP]36 [/SUP]If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.”

These words of Jesus are so plain and simple a child could understand them, but sinners will still argue against this very plain and simple truth because they themselves are still committing sins and are servants of sin, and thus they will also try to justify themselves and ongoing sin.

Let’s break this down. Jesus said those who commit sin are a servant of sin, and a servant abides not in the house forever. That verse right there crushes this false notion that ongoing sin does not compromise eternal security. The truth is right there in front of your face. A SERVANT OF SIN ABIDES NOT IN THE HOUSE FOREVER!

People, believing in the Truth according to the words of God has the power to set you free from the bondage of sin. Jesus Christ is the very Word of God, which is Truth and is that Eternal Life. Believe in what Jesus said above, and not the lies and false doctrine of carnally minded men. Believe Jesus when He said you can indeed be made free from the bondage of sin and death.
​

To start with, this is all about the “ongoing sin” which certainly not effect on the eternal security of the believer. I bet there’s nothing to prove this idea since this is in fact nothing but this relates to those unbelievers, and not to his disciples.

Yes, you talking about sinners(ongoing sinners) not disciples, saved sinners. Talk about the servant of sin and we are not. Plain and simple this has nothing to do with eternal life.

God bless

 

[JaumeJ]

Nice! God bless you.......

I have found a pretty simple way of spotting a false grace message.

The false grace message says sin (works of the flesh) still has dominion over you when you are born again of the Spirit and under grace. This means by definition that you are still a servant of sin.

But the true grace message says when you are born again of the Spirit and truly under grace sin shall not have dominion over you. This means you are now made free from sin by Christ and are now also made a servant of righteousness.

So when the false grace camp say works do not matter, they also include the works of the flesh=sin in the whole mix of works as they say do not matter.

Sin is a work people, and sin does matter, that is also why Jesus came and was crucified.

 

[fredoheaven]

This is what I believed:

I certainly believe that the power of God, the gospel which can topple the penalty of our sin just as the Bible says. “For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through our Lord Jesus Christ”. Romans 6:23. Further, the Bible says we can have victory over the power of sins in our daily life. I John 5:4 says we can have such victory by faith “For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. Of course, God can empower every Christians to have victory over sins especially those who fulfill His ministry (See Rev. 2:26; Acts 1:8). And ultimately, the presence of sins will be broken someday by the soon coming of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. The Bible says in 1 Corinthians 15:57 “But thanks be to God who giveth us victory through our Lord Jesus Christ”. This victory over sins which were many can be eliminated once the Lords appear and resurrection occurs

 

[eternally-gratefull]

well the thing is, you shall be judged by the same measure you judge others

that would give anyone with actual discernment pause

that is why we are warned

the warning is for you if you judge

I just love it when a passage of scripture someone uses to JUDGE someone else is actually written to JUDGE them. But their plank is so big, they can't see it..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You do realize that is exactly what the sinless doctrine is right? You told me once before that you don't teach or preach the sinless doctrine and so I thought perhaps I was hasty in believing you were of the sinless doctrine but you once again speak of the exact thing. I am not going to lie and say i don't sin in fact I will be honest and say I sin far more than I know I should and believe me I am not proud of it and it irritates me but to say that sin has power over me is incorrect and to also say that it doesn't and that I am able to not sin ever is also incorrect

Amen, And I think we also (especially as young believers) Sin more than we KNOW.. because we are not mature enough yet to know what all sin is. And the older we get, the more sinful we realise we really are.. Which humbles us even more..

Paul realized this.. And this is why a man who spent his entie life trying to obey the law, even at the end, said he continued to run the race, Knowing he had not yet arrived to that sinless state yet

 

[eternally-gratefull]

he won't be straight when he answers because he can't he has himself in a trap here. If he is honest and says yes I teach and believe the sinless doctrine then the scriptures alone accuse him not us but if he also says no I don't then his own words betray him because all his posts while may not directly stating it hint and imply the sinless doctrine and so the only choice is to continue to avoid a straight answer and yet even that doesn't help his cause

to take it even further, If he admits he still sins, He judged himself, because the very passages he uses JUDGE HIM! (using the context he is using)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Funny how sinless perfection goes right out the window the moment I believe that I have it. I am neither sinless nor perfect the moment I think I am. I am sinless and perfect in Christ but that is a future position not a present reality. Sanctification takes a lifetime and is not without set backs and failures along the way.

God knows all my weaknesses and through His strength patience and love brings me into heaven through His love not my virtues.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Amen,

By one sacrifice he HAS PERFECTED FOREVER, those BEING SANCTIFIED.

Sanctification is not complete it is an ongoing process.. But PERFECTION is a stated completed fact.

Both ISIT seems to deny (Eternal security, and that he still sins)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Your right it's not about you but we are to test all spirits are we not? Why is it that you cannot give a clear answer? You are asked if you believe yourself to be sinless and if you teach and believe the sinless doctrine you avoid the question you are asked if you believe him to be a Christian and again avoid the question.

When one constantly dodges such things that means they have something they can't admit

He has been here for a few years, and been asked this question so many times I lost count over those years.. He has never answered, I would not expect that to change, he will keep throwing verses at you. and telling you to listen to God.

He is yet but another of a group of people who have NO DESIRE to discuss the word of God in a bible DISCUSION forum. But has ulterior motives..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Uumm, excuse me..... how can ANY doctrine be deadly to a young christian when your "radical grace" doctrine plainly says past, present, & future sins are already forgiven?

yeah, How can ANY DOCTRINE not be deadly to a young christian when we claim Jesus FINISHED work on the cross is not enough, When we say Jesus LIED when he said "IT IS FINISHED" Literally "PAID IN FULL"

yep. Lets get young men and women to trust in themselves and their own works, and boast how great they are.. and be modern day pharisee..

Yep. a perfect plan (NOT)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

But at least I do quote the words of Jesus and the apostles to prove all my points as valid.

A pharisee could quote the OT word for word.

How well did that do them? You posting scripture does not do you ANY good..

Your teachings have to back up what ALL of scripture says, Not just a few passages taken out of context.

You going to answer Utah's question? Everyone here is witnessing how sincerer you are by not answering.