the Gentiles

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loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,083
190
63
#21
The blood of bulls and goats has never achieved atonement, it was only as they symbolized Christ. Christ came to fulfill and complete.

Certainly, so we can never accept that the Messiah came for "naught".


Hebrews 10

[SUP]10 [/SUP]By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
[SUP]12 [/SUP]But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
[SUP]13 [/SUP]From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
[SUP]16 [/SUP]This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
[SUP]20 [/SUP]By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
[SUP]21 [/SUP]And having an high priest over the house of God;
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised
[SUP]24 [/SUP]And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

[SUP]26 [/SUP]For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
[SUP]27 [/SUP]But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
[SUP]30 [/SUP]For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
 
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homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
15,028
106
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#22
Homwardbound, Love is the fulfillment of both the Great and the second law.
Yes so there are two Laws written on my heart and these Laws are best described 1 Cor. 13:4-13
Waht else is needed this is what Christ came to do for those that believe in Christ. So why all the self effort, when the selfeffort never worked for the first Chosen havinig to sacrifice year after year neve having their conscious's purged from sin
Hebrews 10:1[ Christ’s Sacrifice Once for All ] The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship.
Hebrews 10:2Otherwise, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins.

So after Christ's sacrifice, and recieving the redemption should we not stop feeling guilty for our sins and turn tothe lioving God in thankfulness
Hebrews 10:2Otherwise, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins.
Colossians 2:14having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,083
190
63
#23
Yes so there are two Laws written on my heart and these Laws are best described 1 Cor. 13:4-13
Waht else is needed this is what Christ came to do for those that believe in Christ. So why all the self effort, when the selfeffort never worked for the first Chosen havinig to sacrifice year after year neve having their conscious's purged from sin
Hebrews 10:1[ Christ’s Sacrifice Once for All ] The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship.
Hebrews 10:2Otherwise, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins.

So after Christ's sacrifice, and recieving the redemption should we not stop feeling guilty for our sins and turn tothe lioving God in thankfulness
Hebrews 10:2Otherwise, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins.
Colossians 2:14having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross.
John 3

There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: 2The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.9Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? 10Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? 11Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. 12If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? 13And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
John 7

37In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. 38He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
Hebrews 10

And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. 15Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,16This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;17And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.18Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
Romans 8

8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

1 John 5

Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. 2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. 3For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. 4For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.5Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? 6This is he that came by water and blood,even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
homwardbound why do you resist what is written?
 
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JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,235
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#24
What was etched in stone has been inscribed on the tablets of our hearts.

This should change our attitute toward the commandments of Yahweh to obey by nature now, rather than to be slaves to what is in stone, also, if our nature is changed, so are we freed from the curse of the law, that is to say punishment and death.

It is now our joy to learn of Yeshua, and to obey His teachings. He loves all who obey the commandments of the Father.

He loves all, but His children obey Him because their nature is to do so.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
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#25
PETER: “Now here is my opinion. We should not make it hard for the non-Jews who are turning to God.
Here is what we should write to them.

They must not eat food polluted by being offered to statues of gods. They must not commit sexual sins. They must not eat the meat of animals that have been choked to death. And they must not drink blood.

These laws of Moses have been preached in every city from the earliest times. They are read out loud in the synagogues every Sabbath day.”

- Acts 15:19-21, New International Reader's Version (NIRV)
those Laws of Moses were not taught to gentiles from the earliest times, if that is what you are trying to make that passage say.

Ephesians 2
Made Alive in Christ

1As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesha and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath. 4But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Jew and Gentile Reconciled Through Christ
11Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (which is done in the body by human hands)— 12remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
15,028
106
63
#26
those Laws of Moses were not taught to gentiles from the earliest times, if that is what you are trying to make that passage say.

Ephesians 2
Made Alive in Christ

1As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesha and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath. 4But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Jew and Gentile Reconciled Through Christ
11Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (which is done in the body by human hands)— 12remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
Waht you quoted is the power of God to all that believe thank you Zone
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
15,028
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#27
John 3



John 7



Hebrews 10



Romans 8




1 John 5



homwardbound why do you resist what is written?
how is it that you percieve KI resist waht is written, Sister my conscious is clear, I am only here to get edified and edify whereever possible, So why do you think I do not believe, what is it that I have said against scripture? I am confused are you taking offense to my replies as if I am sayingyoudon't beleive? Forgive this wrong if this is the case thanks
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,235
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#29
Yeshua, Jesus, of the faith of Abraham could not be caught up in His words nor in His actions. He obeyed the Father to the end, that horrendous suffering on the cross for us all.

He is our Example, and He teaches us to learn of Him because His yoke is easy and His burden is light. Now, from this, one may determine if he should follow the Lord's Example or later teachings from people.

I now that once the law has been inscribed on the tablets of flesh, that is to say our hearts, our new nature is to obey the Father's will, and any of His commands for we all know the Father puts disobedience in the same place as He regards idolatry.


Jesus Christ came and He completed the law by affording all by His very Blood cleansing from the guilt of our sins, and with this constant grace we are freed from the curse of the law, that being punishment and ultimately death.

According to our Lord, anyone teaching against the least of these laws will be least in heaven.

 
Oct 31, 2011
8,200
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#30
I have to say that of all written in the Bible that 119 Psalms was what most helped me begin to see the bubble I was enclosed in breaking, so that I could finally see past that bubble.

There is no need to "meditate" on a statute except it have deeper meaning that is more important for us to see.

Otherwise, we do not meditate, we simply comply with it by it's letter. That is not so difficult for anyone. But as God's laws are all governed by love, if we use them in a rote or ritual like fashion we fail to see that there are times where we do use them in a way that violates God's love, thus desecrating their holiness.
Don't use God's laws "in a rote or ritual fashion." What a wonderful way to put it.

I think Christ said it, too, when he explained about the Sabbath. It is the law to rest on the Sabbath we know, but he explained that the law of love comes first, so if someone needs healing it comes first. He said the law of the Sabbath was given to us in love, "the Sabbath was made for man".
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#31
EG, it was you above who made this comment:
And? What does the comment mean? If Christ DIED ONCE for all. then why does anyone want to go back to law?

if the law states that sin can not be forgiven apart from the shedding of blood. And Christ fulfilled the law. Then if we sin today. what, other than the blood of Christ (which was shed 2000 years ago) could take away that sin?

People want to go back to law.. but take away the sacrifice. they are inseparable. either Christ died once to forgive ALL sin, or he did not. the choice is yours.

If we can still die because of sin, after it was already forgiven. Then Christ died for nothing. That is not opinion. it is fact!
 
Oct 31, 2011
8,200
182
0
#32
And? What does the comment mean? If Christ DIED ONCE for all. then why does anyone want to go back to law?

if the law states that sin can not be forgiven apart from the shedding of blood. And Christ fulfilled the law. Then if we sin today. what, other than the blood of Christ (which was shed 2000 years ago) could take away that sin?

People want to go back to law.. but take away the sacrifice. they are inseparable. either Christ died once to forgive ALL sin, or he did not. the choice is yours.

If we can still die because of sin, after it was already forgiven. Then Christ died for nothing. That is not opinion. it is fact!
Would you explain what you mean by not "go back to law?" Do you mean that obedience means not accepting grace and forgiveness? Does this include ignoring scripture that talks of law? I have always been bewildered by this phrase when people repeat it. From a scripture standpoint I understand it to mean that law points to sin that means death, but we have forgiveness and grace through Christ, but it has nothing to do with our need to be guided by law.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,235
6,530
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#33
Let us talk common sense with a few interrogatives.

Is it going "back" to the law to honor our parents?

Is it going back to the law not to steal?

Is it going back to the law not to kill?

And continue with all the commandments..

It is not simply honoring God to obey His guidelines for decent behavior, it really is our nature to do his commandments and not just read them chisled into stone.

His laws have been taken from cold, consciousless stone and written on the tables of our hearts.

I do not believe you dishonor anyone you love, and it should not be taught to do so.

Our nature has been converted to do by it what is good, however the intent of the law, other than punishment and death, are still quite lively.

Anyone teaching against them is sorely in error.

Yahweh, God bless you now and forever in His light, in Yeshua, amen.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,083
190
63
#34
And? What does the comment mean? If Christ DIED ONCE for all. then why does anyone want to go back to law?

if the law states that sin can not be forgiven apart from the shedding of blood. And Christ fulfilled the law. Then if we sin today. what, other than the blood of Christ (which was shed 2000 years ago) could take away that sin?

People want to go back to law.. but take away the sacrifice. they are inseparable. either Christ died once to forgive ALL sin, or he did not. the choice is yours.

If we can still die because of sin, after it was already forgiven. Then Christ died for nothing. That is not opinion. it is fact!
The Messiah Yahshua teaches us much and those forgiven and cleansed with His Blood will adhere to His Words for they give life.

Hebrews 9

14How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Romans 6

What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? 17But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.18Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. 19I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.20For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. 21What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. 22But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. 23For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Being made free to become servants of God.

I assure you the Messiah Yahshua did not come for "naught" .

Those that Keep the Commandments of God and have the Testimony of the Messiah are called saints.

If one is forgiven and cleansed they do not go back to that which made them guilty and dirty.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,083
190
63
#35
how is it that you percieve KI resist waht is written, Sister my conscious is clear, I am only here to get edified and edify whereever possible, So why do you think I do not believe, what is it that I have said against scripture? I am confused are you taking offense to my replies as if I am sayingyoudon't beleive? Forgive this wrong if this is the case thanks
Do you believe we should Keep and Teach the Commandments of God?
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,083
190
63
#36
homwardbound, this is the Great Commandment and second like it:

Matthew 22

[SUP]36 [/SUP]Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
[SUP]37 [/SUP]Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
[SUP]38 [/SUP]This is the first and great commandment.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
[SUP]40 [/SUP]On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
15,028
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#37
Do you believe we should Keep and Teach the Commandments of God?
I do through his power, for it is God that does this in me and through me
I am crucified never the less I live, not by self but by the power of God who gave himself for me.
I am rested from my works and now have recieved God's works by Faith asw Abraham, Noah, Paul, Mark, Luke, John, Peter, James, and many other Saints in Christ did
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
15,028
106
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#38
homwardbound, this is the Great Commandment and second like it:

Matthew 22
Waht post have I ever not believed in the Law of Love, I have already said these things many times, where is the mis communication at. I believe and you do too, What are you saying to me? Are you saying I need to beleive thinking I do not?
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
15,028
106
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#39
Do you believe we should Keep and Teach the Commandments of God?
Where have I not taught to believe and one will not do God's commnadments?
All I have said is by belief in the finished work of Christ one does what is in order and right by his grace as Paul so well pointed out
Galatians 2:20I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,083
190
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#40
We are forgiven and cleansed through Faith in the Messiah Yahshua.

We become servants of God, which means we have work to do, and our Work is found in the Testimony of Yahshua the Messiah.

We hear and do what our Master commands of us for He leads us on the path of Righteousness.