It is a pity but as proven by the posts, the majority posting will only post what they choose from the Word, sounding as if they know something while ignoring the Bread from above. Note how the example of the cirumcision of Timothy will be conveniently ignored, and if it is mentioned the truth you have taught well will be changed to fit an argument. When it is time, you will know, have no more to do with vain words amounting to nothing.
The Hebrew Roots Cult - Jim Pruitt
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Acts 16
“Then he came to Derbe and Lystra. And behold, a certain disciple was there, named Timothy, the son of a certain Jewish woman who believed, but his father was Greek. He was well spoken of by the brethren who were at Lystra and Iconium. Paul wanted to have him go on with him. And he took him and circumcised him because of the Jews who were in that region, for they all knew that his father was Greek.”
by being circumcised, Timothy was accepted by the JEWS Paul wanted him to minister to.
NOT acceptable to God on that basis.
it was the jews who were struggling with no circumcision. it was for their sakes Paul had timothy (jewish anyway by tradition)
Timothy's mother was jewish, the jews would be more accepting of one they considered a jew (by virtue of mother and upbringing) if he was circumcised.
Paul did not contradict anything at all....if Timothy was greek on both sides - we would have an issue.
there is no issue. this matter was settled long ago...we are not in the transition between Old & New Covenants.
1 Corinthians 9
“and to the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might win the Jews; to those who are under the law, as under the law, that I might win those who are under the law”
there is no more Old Covenant.
“Then he came to Derbe and Lystra. And behold, a certain disciple was there, named Timothy, the son of a certain Jewish woman who believed, but his father was Greek. He was well spoken of by the brethren who were at Lystra and Iconium. Paul wanted to have him go on with him. And he took him and circumcised him because of the Jews who were in that region, for they all knew that his father was Greek.”
by being circumcised, Timothy was accepted by the JEWS Paul wanted him to minister to.
NOT acceptable to God on that basis.
it was the jews who were struggling with no circumcision. it was for their sakes Paul had timothy (jewish anyway by tradition)
Timothy's mother was jewish, the jews would be more accepting of one they considered a jew (by virtue of mother and upbringing) if he was circumcised.
Paul did not contradict anything at all....if Timothy was greek on both sides - we would have an issue.
there is no issue. this matter was settled long ago...we are not in the transition between Old & New Covenants.
1 Corinthians 9
“and to the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might win the Jews; to those who are under the law, as under the law, that I might win those who are under the law”
there is no more Old Covenant.
I never said Paul was teaching against the act of circumcision, or having a circumcised weiner, per se. I said as a matter of obedience to the law of Moses, he forbade it. Pharisees were trying to subvert the church by telling gentile believers that they had to be circumcised and keep the law of Moses. Paul said if you do this, you are cut off from Christ, fallen from grace. Can a man be restored to grace for doing something so stupid? Of course, he can IF he repents of trying to be justified, or trying to please GOD, by works of law.
Yet again you've avoided addressing the fact that Paul taught against keeping that law, yet are still interpreting Matthew 5:19 to mean that if someone teaches to break the least commandment they will be least in the kingdom of GOD.
Yet again you've avoided addressing the fact that Paul taught against keeping that law, yet are still interpreting Matthew 5:19 to mean that if someone teaches to break the least commandment they will be least in the kingdom of GOD.
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M
I think this is the key. Paul's not just saying we shouldn't obey the laws of Moses for salvation, he's saying we shouldn't obey even as a matter of obedience, as it puts us under the whole of the law.
If we don't eat pig, or shellfish or something because it's healthier, or we don't serve them up because we don't want to offend our Jewish/Muslim guests, that's fine (right?). But as soon as we start doing such things to try to obey the law of Moses (not even for salvation), it puts us under the whole of the law.
Or have I misunderstood?
If we don't eat pig, or shellfish or something because it's healthier, or we don't serve them up because we don't want to offend our Jewish/Muslim guests, that's fine (right?). But as soon as we start doing such things to try to obey the law of Moses (not even for salvation), it puts us under the whole of the law.
Or have I misunderstood?
This will be my last post here on this topic, because it is irrelevant to the thread's topic. My understanding of his words is different. The unbelieving Jews tried to remain perfect and righteous by means of the Law. But if you transgress any part of the Law (which all have done) then you are a sinner. To go on trying to remain perfect and righteous is a useless act.
Paul was saying that if sinners continued to try to remain perfect and righteous by observing the Law then 1. not only was Christ to no effect because they had their faith in the Law rather than Christ but 2. the Law actually condemned their past sins and therefore condemned them rather than saved them. It's pointless to try to earn salvation and righteousness by obedience to the Law rather than faith in Christ. The Gospel is about faith in Christ. Paul was saying that these people had put their faith in the Law rather than putting their faith in Christ. Therefore they were unsaved. It has nothing to do with obedience for the sake of obeying the Law. It's about where one's faith is.
Those who put their faith in the Law to save them are subject to obey the whole Law. Otherwise one slip and the Law automatically condemns them. Paul says nothing on obeying the Law as a matter of obedience. It's all about where one's faith is. Let's go through it step by step.
1. X trusts that they can earn salvation by a perfect life and good deeds (this is called putting your faith in the Law).
2. Therefore X is not trusting in Christ's sacrifice for them (this is called being cut off from Christ).
3. X transgresses the Law once.
4. The Law condemns X.
5. Since X has no faith in Christ and the Law condemns X they are unsaved.
This has nothing to do with obedience. It's a matter of one's faith. Put your faith on Christ our Rock and even though you fail to obey the whole Law you will not be condemned by it. However, you can still try to obey the whole Law as a matter of simple obedience and willingness to walk a godly path. The only reason you would be subject to obey the whole Law is if you are not trusting in Christ but rather the Law for salvation.
Paul was saying that if sinners continued to try to remain perfect and righteous by observing the Law then 1. not only was Christ to no effect because they had their faith in the Law rather than Christ but 2. the Law actually condemned their past sins and therefore condemned them rather than saved them. It's pointless to try to earn salvation and righteousness by obedience to the Law rather than faith in Christ. The Gospel is about faith in Christ. Paul was saying that these people had put their faith in the Law rather than putting their faith in Christ. Therefore they were unsaved. It has nothing to do with obedience for the sake of obeying the Law. It's about where one's faith is.
Those who put their faith in the Law to save them are subject to obey the whole Law. Otherwise one slip and the Law automatically condemns them. Paul says nothing on obeying the Law as a matter of obedience. It's all about where one's faith is. Let's go through it step by step.
1. X trusts that they can earn salvation by a perfect life and good deeds (this is called putting your faith in the Law).
2. Therefore X is not trusting in Christ's sacrifice for them (this is called being cut off from Christ).
3. X transgresses the Law once.
4. The Law condemns X.
5. Since X has no faith in Christ and the Law condemns X they are unsaved.
This has nothing to do with obedience. It's a matter of one's faith. Put your faith on Christ our Rock and even though you fail to obey the whole Law you will not be condemned by it. However, you can still try to obey the whole Law as a matter of simple obedience and willingness to walk a godly path. The only reason you would be subject to obey the whole Law is if you are not trusting in Christ but rather the Law for salvation.
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M
Romans 13:8 - 10 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
A new commandment?
John 13:34 - 35 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
A new commandment?
John 13:34 - 35 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
B
When a believer is walking in the light they don't fret about getting sucked into other forms of light. You, on the other hand, need to be concerned that your own understanding of the light will eventually lead you away from the truth that is in Christ and in the church. The gospel and doctrine we have as believers of one body involves one Lord and one faith through one Spirit.