The Jewish 'Mashiac' - a question about the OT

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Oct 12, 2012
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#61
Don't know what your talking about JaumeJ, maybe your having a conversation with yourself! I'm not having any blown out contention or fanning flames with anyone, especially not you! I'm just telling you what your saying is BS, and not every one who says they are Christians are Christians?! Not every institution who says they are of the Hebrew God, are what they say they are?!

Why does everyone run away when someone says the Jews of today are not of God's chosen people?
Meaning, the natural and ethical Jew in modern day Israel or else where?
They have hated Christ Jesus for 2000 years! This is 700 years longer than from Moses unto Jesus!
When Paul said the Jews would be set aside for a short time, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled,
he wasn't talking about 2000 years! He was talking about 40 years a generation!
2000 years is not a short while!

Anyway if you can't always speak with others unless in is your vested interest, good luck!



You want to have a blown out contention. I could carry this on and on to allow you to fan the flames of an argument that should not exist.

Do you not know the Gate of the enemies of Abraham's descendants was promised to Abraham in Genesis? Of course Jesus Christ is that Door, that Gate.

I know I understand exactly what you are trying to teach as true, but just as well I know that what I have learned, is not because I wish to please flesh. This should not be about me and you. This forum is supposed to be for people to discuss the Word, not personalities, or how an individual has been called.

Once more there is the demonizing of one of the many religions claiming to follow Jesus Christ, that being what you call the Cult of the Mesianic Jews. Once more I pass on to you, anyone who believes Jesus Christ, may be called Christian, Jew, Messianic Jew, Catholic, Baptist, Seventh Day Adventist, and much more.............but the truth, the only truth is the Word of God, Yahweh. I hope His Hebrew name does not get your dander up.

I will always have a place in my heart for Jews, and not just a special place or a little place, my whole heart. I await our Father's plans for all of them, and I accuse none. Accusing is the work of the enemy.

May God bless you and hold you close forever, amen. I am disassociating myself with this thread because of this back and forth contention.
 
Oct 31, 2011
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#62
If we would follow the picture of us that scripture gives, we would all unite under Christ and love.

The Jews at the time of Christ treated the Samaritans as some of you are treating other people who are under Christ. Christ said they were their neighbors. When we were given directions on the outlines for our prayers to the Father in Heaven, we were told we were to ask Christ for forgiveness but we would block that forgiveness from happening to us if we became people who would not forgive. All the letters give examples of Christians being a family in Christ with love for each other.

If we are one family, united by Christ, and called to abundance, love, peace, and building each other up, what would a Father of that family do if a member started pointing fingers at another group with accusations, name calling, and judgments?

If they wouldn't even discuss their differences calmly and with respect for each other, and one actually told lies about another in the group, that Father would have to act to stop such things so the family could be together.
 
Oct 12, 2012
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#63
Good job redtent! You keep luring people into your marshmallow Jesus cult; and they'll be just right for the picken, when ol Slew foot comes to call!


If we would follow the picture of us that scripture gives, we would all unite under Christ and love.

The Jews at the time of Christ treated the Samaritans as some of you are treating other people who are under Christ. Christ said they were their neighbors. When we were given directions on the outlines for our prayers to the Father in Heaven, we were told we were to ask Christ for forgiveness but we would block that forgiveness from happening to us if we became people who would not forgive. All the letters give examples of Christians being a family in Christ with love for each other.

If we are one family, united by Christ, and called to abundance, love, peace, and building each other up, what would a Father of that family do if a member started pointing fingers at another group with accusations, name calling, and judgments?

If they wouldn't even discuss their differences calmly and with respect for each other, and one actually told lies about another in the group, that Father would have to act to stop such things so the family could be together.
 
Oct 31, 2011
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#64
Don't know what your talking about JaumeJ, maybe your having a conversation with yourself! I'm not having any blown out contention or fanning flames with anyone, especially not you! I'm just telling you what your saying is BS, and not every one who says they are Christians are Christians?! Not every institution who says they are of the Hebrew God, are what they say they are?!

Why does everyone run away when someone says the Jews of today are not of God's chosen people?
Meaning, the natural and ethical Jew in modern day Israel or else where?
They have hated Christ Jesus for 2000 years! This is 700 years longer than from Moses unto Jesus!
When Paul said the Jews would be set aside for a short time, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled,
he wasn't talking about 2000 years! He was talking about 40 years a generation!
2000 years is not a short while!

Anyway if you can't always speak with others unless in is your vested interest, good luck!
Have you studied the history of the Jews and compared it to what the bible tells of them? I think you would come a lot closer to knowing the mind of God if you would stop saying you know everything about it and let God take care of it. "They have hated"! The gentile has acted in hateful ways, trying to destroy them for years. Read history.

We have times ahead that makes it necessary you love the Lord, that you do everything the Lord's Prayer tells you to do, and let God take care of what is coming. It involves the Jews, says scripture.

In fact, it even says we will again look to the Jews to lead us! The bulk of Jews today are not following God so it is hard to see that far ahead, but we need to be ready. Zec 8:23 The LORD of Hosts says this: "In those days, 10 men from nations of every language will grab the robe of a Jewish man tightly, urging: Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you."
 
Oct 31, 2011
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#65
Good job redtent! You keep luring people into your marshmallow Jesus cult; and they'll be just right for the picken, when ol Slew foot comes to call!
If you call scripture a cult, or talk of love in scripture "marshmallow", and promote the cult of making judgments and promoting hate, then give me marshmallows every time.
 
Oct 12, 2012
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#66
I know redtent your the only person in the world who can read and study!

There are no Gentiles or Jews after 70ad! I think your the one who needs to go back and re-read somethings!
THERE ARE NO MORE JEWS OR GENTILES!
Until some of you folks get this, everything else you say is just Poop on a stick!

What this means redtent is this!
At the end of 70ad, the Gentiles that was Israel's natural born enemies, no longer existed!
Likewise, after 70ad, there was no longer Jews who were God's chosen people!
There are no more Jews or Gentiles!

First off, it doesn't matter what anyone else has done to the Jews after 70ad,
you cannot compare that to their hatred of God and His Lamb, what is wrong with you?

So i understand completely where we differ, and it is not negotiable!
And I'm here to speak peaceably with you about it!

Zec 8:23 was speaking about the time of Messiah Jesus and the Early Church!
Who were the Apostles? They were Jews!
Who were most of the Early Church in Israel? They were Jews!
The Nations were the Gentiles! What are you speaking about here this day has already come!
Paul went out preaching to the Jew first and then to the Gentiles,
usually in a Jewish Synagogue!

What your saying in my opinion just doesn't make since,
and just like me you have the obligation to defend it!
Which I applaud! But I'm not going to be silent on this matter either!

God bless you



Have you studied the history of the Jews and compared it to what the bible tells of them? I think you would come a lot closer to knowing the mind of God if you would stop saying you know everything about it and let God take care of it. "They have hated"! The gentile has acted in hateful ways, trying to destroy them for years. Read history.

We have times ahead that makes it necessary you love the Lord, that you do everything the Lord's Prayer tells you to do, and let God take care of what is coming. It involves the Jews, says scripture.

In fact, it even says we will again look to the Jews to lead us! The bulk of Jews today are not following God so it is hard to see that far ahead, but we need to be ready. Zec 8:23 The LORD of Hosts says this: "In those days, 10 men from nations of every language will grab the robe of a Jewish man tightly, urging: Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you."
 
Oct 12, 2012
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#67
Fine by me! Just keep teaching people that they can say or do anything and be called a christian!
That's on you!


If you call scripture a cult, or talk of love in scripture "marshmallow", and promote the cult of making judgments and promoting hate, then give me marshmallows every time.
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
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#68
I have shown your statements as untrue,
You did not show my statements regarding Messianic Jews were untrue.

You showed what Scripture said.

I even numbered them. Did you resent my asking you if you believed in the Torah, even though
you don't even question me, you just judge and accuse.
I have no questions about you.

The subject is Messianic Jews, of which you are not.

Please show what you are talking about.

This should be a place Christians could go to discuss scripture. Not a place where I am put on your block for
accusations without allowances for self defense.
You are not the subject of my description of Messianic Jews.

You are not a Jew and, therefore, are not a Messianic Jew.

You have not shown my statements regarding Messianic Jews, or anything else, to be untrue.

It's not about you, unless you chose to make it about you.
 
Oct 31, 2011
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#69
I know redtent your the only person in the world who can read and study!

There are no Gentiles or Jews after 70ad! I think your the one who needs to go back and re-read somethings!
THERE ARE NO MORE JEWS OR GENTILES!
Until some of you folks get this, everything else you say is just Poop on a stick!

What this means redtent is this!
At the end of 70ad, the Gentiles that was Israel's natural born enemies, no longer existed!
Likewise, after 70ad, there was no longer Jews who were God's chosen people!
There are no more Jews or Gentiles!

First off, it doesn't matter what anyone else has done to the Jews after 70ad,
you cannot compare that to their hatred of God and His Lamb, what is wrong with you?

So i understand completely where we differ, and it is not negotiable!
And I'm here to speak peaceably with you about it!

Zec 8:23 was speaking about the time of Messiah Jesus and the Early Church!
Who were the Apostles? They were Jews!
Who were most of the Early Church in Israel? They were Jews!
The Nations were the Gentiles! What are you speaking about here this day has already come!
Paul went out preaching to the Jew first and then to the Gentiles,
usually in a Jewish Synagogue!

What your saying in my opinion just doesn't make since,
and just like me you have the obligation to defend it!
Which I applaud! But I'm not going to be silent on this matter either!

God bless you
You are making more sense! I have always read Zech. 8:23 as speaking of our last days. It is often hard to tell if OT prophecy apply to the time of Christ or the Christ of the last days. Why do you think this verse applies to the first coming of Christ? I know of respected scholars who think it is talking of last days.

I don't think you are right about "Jews hate Christ". The ones who do not accept Him as the true Messiah always say they just think He wasn't the one and give reasons for their opinion, I have never seen anything about them "hating".

When I read so much on cc about the Mosaic Law I decided to read all I could about people who lived by it. (What can I say, I'm old and can't do much but study). I'm always amazed at their lack of hate, I would have wanted to hit someone if I was treated as they often were and they almost always didn't feel that way, even helping people from the class that abused them.
 
Feb 7, 2013
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#70
Peace be with you dearly beloved Elin, the gift of the HOLY SPIRIT is divided to all believers and you and i do not have the same gift and this is the will of GOD through our LORD JESUS CHRIST and by the Helper, our anointing placed in us who is the HOLY SPIRIT, who taught and remind and stir up our memory, in order to always know and walk in obedience faith, witnessing to others the same which is partly among many practices, pleasing to worshiping GOD the FATHER in spirit and truth.

We need to learn from each other, especially when we know and cannot deny the fact that it is written in the New Covenant to justify that 'no one is above any other, for GOD will be put down anyone in practicing so', but only GOD the FATHER of our LORD JESUS CHRIST.
HE Himself in HIS 'every' Word have highlighted them and can never be corrupted by anyone, regardless of how many versions available.

If anyone wants to deny these written documented facts and it is the established New Covenant which justified as just and fair for all who believe in them. This is not at all like any human made contracts with one another that year after year need to be amended for another better and prosperous year in services and sadly in their lives of laboring and filled with strife, ever they reach perfection in their set goals between an employer and employees. Even an employer may even compromise his own contract policies, for as long an employee brings in the revenues especially 'cash', which sustains any worldly establishments and it's boss pockets well, plenty and overflowing.

Nevertheless it is completely the opposite compared with GOD's Covenants made with HIS people to prosperity and not harm, for HIS 'every' Word is written clearly for all who believe to know, initially taught by the Help of the HOLY SPIRIT, placed in us as also our Teacher of the Holy Scripture to clear justification of GOD's Kingdom that will stand for ever and ever, Amen.

As it is written in our faith; "Men shall not live by bread alone but by the 'every' Word that proceeded out of the mouth of GOD."


In the HOLY BIBLE, they are all Holy Scripture, the 'every' Word of GOD, spoken and written for our learning and Kingdom knowledge faith and also called as faith practices, to 'abide' in all of them as believers, in order to be fruitful and further grow from faith to faith as also our fruit must 'abide'.

Let us all consider carefully what it means to all believers about GOD's 'every Word' written in the HOLY BIBLE, especially in the New Covenant;
1. How many sentences are there?
2, How many 'words' are there in 'a' and 'every' sentence or sentences and do we not consider all of them than bread alone?

Going on ahead ignoring sound doctrine Kingdom knowledge, will only cause someone to be shipwrecked later. The Apostles have highlighted these things ahead of time for us to all to become GOD's Kingdom wise witness as we come into submission and obedience to all of them which is written as our faith foundation and our faith witnessing..

May GOD the FATHER of our LORD JESUS CHRIST forgive and help those who are in ignorance and in deception and straighten them according to HIS will, in order to honor HIS SON CHRIST who have been made higher than all the angels forever and ever, Amen..
 
D

danalee

Guest
#71
If we would follow the picture of us that scripture gives, we would all unite under Christ and love.

The Jews at the time of Christ treated the Samaritans as some of you are treating other people who are under Christ. Christ said they were their neighbors. When we were given directions on the outlines for our prayers to the Father in Heaven, we were told we were to ask Christ for forgiveness but we would block that forgiveness from happening to us if we became people who would not forgive. All the letters give examples of Christians being a family in Christ with love for each other.

If we are one family, united by Christ, and called to abundance, love, peace, and building each other up, what would a Father of that family do if a member started pointing fingers at another group with accusations, name calling, and judgments?

If they wouldn't even discuss their differences calmly and with respect for each other, and one actually told lies about another in the group, that Father would have to act to stop such things so the family could be together.
Forgiveness is one of the most important aspects of us abiding his will. It makes perfect sense - how can we receive our own forgiveness with a heavy heart? Good post and a reminder we all need at times.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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#72
Peace be with you dearly beloved Elin, the gift of the HOLY SPIRIT is divided to all believers and you and i do not have the same gift and this is the will of GOD through our LORD JESUS CHRIST and by the Helper, our anointing placed in us who is the HOLY SPIRIT, who taught and remind and stir up our memory, in order to always know and walk in obedience faith, witnessing to others the same which is partly among many practices, pleasing to worshiping GOD the FATHER in spirit and truth.

We need to learn from each other, especially when we know and cannot deny the fact that it is written in the New Covenant to justify that 'no one is above any other, for GOD will be put down anyone in practicing so', but only GOD the FATHER of our LORD JESUS CHRIST.
HE Himself in HIS 'every' Word have highlighted them and can never be corrupted by anyone, regardless of how many versions available.

If anyone wants to deny these written documented facts and it is the established New Covenant which justified as just and fair for all who believe in them. This is not at all like any human made contracts with one another that year after year need to be amended for another better and prosperous year in services and sadly in their lives of laboring and filled with strife, ever they reach perfection in their set goals between an employer and employees. Even an employer may even compromise his own contract policies, for as long an employee brings in the revenues especially 'cash', which sustains any worldly establishments and it's boss pockets well, plenty and overflowing.

Nevertheless it is completely the opposite compared with GOD's Covenants made with HIS people to prosperity and not harm,
I don't think I understand the point of your post.

But I can say that God does promise harm to his people for disobedience (Dt 28:15-68).

for HIS 'every' Word is written clearly for all who believe to know, initially taught by the Help of the HOLY SPIRIT, placed in us as also our Teacher of the Holy Scripture to clear justification of GOD's Kingdom that will stand for ever and ever, Amen.

As it is written in our faith; "Men shall not live by bread alone but by the 'every' Word that proceeded out of the mouth of GOD."

In the HOLY BIBLE, they are all Holy Scripture, the 'every' Word of GOD, spoken and written for our learning and Kingdom knowledge faith and also called as faith practices, to 'abide' in all of them as believers, in order to be fruitful and further grow from faith to faith as also our fruit must 'abide'.

Let us all consider carefully what it means to all believers about GOD's 'every Word' written in the HOLY BIBLE, especially in the New Covenant;
1. How many sentences are there?
2, How many 'words' are there in 'a' and 'every' sentence or sentences and do we not consider all of them than bread alone?

Going on ahead ignoring sound doctrine Kingdom knowledge,
Assuming that it is sound doctrine based in certain and unequivocal NT teaching that we are presenting,
and not doctrine based in uncertain private interpretation of prophetic riddles,
which can be, and are, interpreted by others to mean things entirely different.
 
D

danalee

Guest
#73
I don't think I understand the point of your post.

But I can say that God does promise harm to his people for disobedience (Dt 28:15-68).


Assuming that it is sound doctrine based in certain and unequivocal NT teaching that we are presenting,
and not doctrine based in uncertain private interpretation of prophetic riddles,
which can be, and are, interpreted by others to mean things entirely different.
I thought he was being nice to you....I kinda just skipped to the bottom. Its good we can at least agree on our salvation....I had no idea the complexities involved in deciphering scripture!
 
Jan 19, 2013
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#74
I thought he was being nice to you....I kinda just skipped to the bottom. Its good we can at least agree on our salvation....I had no idea the complexities involved in deciphering scripture!
Well, I do know he is really a nice guy.
 
Feb 7, 2013
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#75
Peace be with you beloved one who have posted this important Tread to all of us. Sorry to fall away to other discussion because some us are poor to know the full truth story, for the HOLY BIBLE can also, as a figure of speech, be considered as a non-fiction story book and the author is GOD Himself, who channels through soul-man, selected from among the Jews, in order to serve only the Jews, who are called HIS chosen people always because the promise GOD made with Abraham that is for 'eternal' (while other foreigners are also welcomed to their faith according to the Old Testament declared by Moses). And also finally through a spirit-man born from among the Jews called blessed among all women, also together HE called as HIS only begotten SON, who represents and witness to the Jews first and then to the world, in the only very Living GOD's ' Fullness' and 'Likeness'.

If we learn to read the HOLY BIBLE like a human child who love to read and hear about fairy tales but yet for us a truth spiritual story and by the Help of the HOLY SPIRIT our anointing Teacher, we discover that GOD Himself will to blind HIS Good News to the Jew who were the wise and prudent to the teachings of Moses, the Priests, Pharisees, Sadducee and etc. And HE introduced HIS SON to ordinary Jews like fishermen and common laborers and even betrayers to the Jews, like tax collectors also the cheating ones, who work for the Roman Emperor.
HE also mentions prophetically that;
'HE will make Israel jealous by letting Himself be known to the Gentiles.'
'HE is a jealous GOD.'
His jealousy is for Israel first, the believing and also the unbelieving ones and then only later we the Gentiles come through them and be adopted. If one is wise, blessed by GOD of JESUS CHRIST, will know that because of GOD's Grace and Truth brought by JESUS of Nazareth justifies that the wise and prudent and also the ordinary Jews were both sinners. HE did not favor one above the other but HE decided that HIS will is that;
'HE takes the foolishness of this world in order to shame the wise.'

Historically in the Old testament there is a rerun of the same incidents with GOD and Israel. When the Jews continue in their sin even after warnings, then GOD takes action in punishing them and allow a few who are also unworthy and undeserving and also sinners, in order for them to live on to remember themselves and further warn, remind and stir up the memory of the younger and future generation, to be alert and stay awake and stay away from things that which are abomination to their GOD, which is as breaking their spiritual marriage Covenant through Moses. In HIS wrath HE causes them to lose everything, devastating them also having a number of them be taken into exile and made into slaves.
Then later HE feels pity for them and personally HE will make a way for them to be reconciled and embraces them back once again and make them a nation again. And we also know Israel at that time and at all times had many enemies who were always planing and wanting to attack them and wipe them out. But only their GOD was the I AM that I AM for them, who decided their future and none can say nor do anything about it or about them, for such will only oppose their creator who cultivated them and called them HIS children and HIS nation.

Please read the book of 'Obadiah' in the Old Testament in order to know GOD's love for them even though in the midst of HIS wrath placed upon them, even for their continuous disobedience.
Even Israel's immediate kinsmen were not spared.
Have mercy Christian or non-Christian for Israel because from the beginning they suffered imperfection under the Old Covenant of GOD's rule and we know how CHRIST as a Jew and for the Jews first, in order to accomplish the righteous requirement of the Old Covenant SPIRITUAL Law, greatly suffered obedience to all of them, daily and on the Cross , for also even our MASTER, JESUS of Nazareth said to HIS disciples written in the Gospel, who were also fellow Israelites Jews, to pray for their Israel (Israelites spiritualness heart beat does not beat individually but they all beat as 'one' as a 'religious family' oriented community, for their singular faith foundation rooted in the Teachings of GOD through Moses, even though it may seem so not to others but in their imperfection and due to their blindness to know all of it's true meanings by the will and purpose of GOD Himself then and even now, until the full number of Gentiles have come in), 'pray to GOD,'to save Israel from all of it's troubles'.

Anyone still want to say anything bad or do evil against also even the present Israel?

For such person in ignorance sadly is accumulating trouble to face GOD's chastisement and then wrath and finally judgement..
 
Feb 7, 2013
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#76
Peace be with you beloved, also in addition to further this subject, this is also how GOD looks at Israel even to this present age. Please read also the whole Romans chapter 11.

May the GOD of 'order and not of disorder', who calls us to unite, the FATHER of our LORD JESUS CHRIST, by HIS will, bless with spiritual blessing in order to discern spiritual teachings to all who read HIS revelation of HIS Word and how it is understood by all and HIS church to unite as 'one body of CHRIST'.
 
D

Donkeyfish07

Guest
#77
I'm wondering how the Christian church can debate the Jewish assertion that the Mashiach would be born of human parents, and that it is heresy to believe that God could be born of human flesh.
I've never seen a Jewish person/Rabbi make that claim. Kind of odd considering Isiah 7:14

"Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel."
 
Jan 13, 2014
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#78
If you love God you would love to read and follow Gods word.
Jesus says:
1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.


the only word they had was the old testament

if you accept excuses not to believe the Old Testament you are in a false religion.
 
Jan 13, 2014
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#79
We all were in a false religion!

Jesus knows this!
He loves us
his message in Revelation is for his own sheep!
the ones IN THE FALSE RELIGIONS!
he is calling them
My sheep hear my voice and come OUT of babylon

his sheep, like you, are in Babylon
and his job is to call them out

if you dont hear that calling voice to come out of sunday worship
you are not a sheep. but a goat

actually Jesus says

1/100 are a sheep of his
the lost sheep
99 are goats 1 is his own little lamb who was lied too with false doctrines of pharisees

how you know a false doctrine of the lawyers and pharisees?
easy
they are LAWYERS and PHARISEES with doctorate degrees.

Jesus has never called a doctorate ever ever in his life
if they have gone to divinity school
they are polluted

John the Baptist was not allowed to get ruined in the schools, God taught him in the desert.

99.999 percent goats.
 
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Jan 13, 2014
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#80
Lots of goats!
But, but , but!
But, but but!

tell them the truth
but, but, but!
but, but, but!

they are not humble
they dont take the Bible read it believe it live it and folllow it
they
but...but...butt