The Law Debacle Resolved

[JaumeJ]

The OP.......... If the Body of Christ with Christ as the Head is of one mind, it would be that of Christ, with the Holy Spirit leading us to all understanding on any given point. What I have posted is clear, and allows for people to follow the Lamb of God where ever He goes. If you believe ideas of man can change what is taught in the Word by the Holy Spirit, this is your denomination, theology or religion. Myself, I am satisfied with the faith of Abraham as given by the Father, and taught by Jesus Christ.

Please try to make direct references to the op and not to the constant bickering over whether the children of obedience should or should not obey God.

Grace, Law? What about it? How do we resolve it.

KennethC gave me and all a reminder in Just-Me's wonderful thread on PHARISEES.

Here is the solution.

Do what Jesus teaches and did.

If you feel a need to argue this, you need His help right away.

Thank you Just-Me and KennethC..........

 

[JaumeJ]

Please attempt to remain on topic or, open your own topic by posting a new thread..........thank you.

The Bible says in Acts 17: 25, “Nor is He served by human hands, as though He needed anything, since He Himself gives to all people life and breath and all things.”

It really stokes our pride to think that we can do something for God. Yet the truth is that we cannot. Only God can do something for Himself. In His infinite grace, He allows us to participate in what He is doing by expressing His life through us.

God neither wants nor needs us to do anything for Him. God doesn’t need us, He wants us.

Jesus himself was empowered by God.
“Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner” (John 5: 19).


Kefa

 

[JaumeJ]

You are denying th resolution by continuing to argue law/grace..... please stay on op.

We have life through the law of the spirit of life...our sins are forgiven and the walk that we walk is in the strength of our Lord Jesus Christ...God is not looking for perfect people...He is looking for those who are perfect IN Him!

Life Through the Spirit

1Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you[SUP]a[/SUP] free from the law of sin and death. 3For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh,[SUP]b[/SUP] God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering.[SUP]c[/SUP] And so he condemned sin in the flesh, 4in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

5Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. 7The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.

 

[JaumeJ]

This OP is to discuss the resolution of learning and doing what Jesus Christ teaches, and attempting our best to live as He lived. This is the OP.

Jaume,

If the forum were in agreement about what Jesus taught; there would be no debacle to resolve.

It is the presence of different understandings of what Jesus taught that caused what you call a debacle; and only the Lord's bringing us all to correct understanding will resolve it.

 

[ember]

You are denying th resolution by continuing to argue law/grace..... please stay on op.

what resolution?

did I miss the resolution?

I only posted scripture...doesn't fit in with your resolution?

confusing to say the least

 

[Kefa54]

The OP.......... If the Body of Christ with Christ as the Head is of one mind, it would be that of Christ, with the Holy Spirit leading us to all understanding on any given point. What I have posted is clear, and allows for people to follow the Lamb of God where ever He goes. If you believe ideas of man can change what is taught in the Word by the Holy Spirit, this is your denomination, theology or religion. Myself, I am satisfied with the faith of Abraham as given by the Father, and taught by Jesus Christ.

Please try to make direct references to the op and not to the constant bickering over whether the children of obedience should or should not obey God.

Scripture please.


Kefa

 

[ember]

Please try to make direct references to the op and not to the constant bickering over whether the children of obedience should or should not obey God.

I don't sense bickering in here

I sense a desire to control what others are saying

respectfully

 

[JaumeJ]

I appear to be saying Remember the solution given in the OP......Do what Jesus teaches and did.. This is the crux of the OP: I did not intend to be put on trial here...

you mean forgive our enemies and pray for those who persecute us without cause?

even Jesus had a devil in His apostles

I am really sorry to say this, but after reading through this thread, you actually appear to be saying do what I say, because Jesus has no problems with us questionning Him..God invites us to pour out our hearts to Him and you keep telling us to keep quiet...at odds with the Bible

This, is the topic...Jesus knew the hearts of all...we cannot and we do not...we cannot judge as did Jesus...righteously

You do not judge righteously because you fail to give any weight to the words of people who disagree with you

 

[just-me]

Then went the Pharisees, and took counsel how they might entangle him in his talk.
Mathew 22:15

The dividers are always the second to arrive with comments of controversy, instigating diversionary comments that the OP doesn't suggest, basing their premature assumptions on their preconceived purpose. Whose tactics are manifested here? Let the truth be known.

Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. Romans 16:17

 

[ember]

Paul is not a liar or a heritic for that matter.
But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: Acts 24:14

I intend to follow his example. Paul continued to attend the teaching of Christ, and worshiped God accordingly.

Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ. 1 Corinthians 11:1

Nicodemus believed Jesus was a teacher. Jesus taught him abut being "born again."

The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. John 3:2

sadly reminds me of Paul being upset that some followed him and some followed another

All Paul EVER wanted is that we follow Christ

 

[Kefa54]

No one has answered my question yet. How ..How do we..Do what Jesus teaches and did."

Kefa

 

[ember]

I appear to be saying Remember the solution given in the OP......Do what Jesus teaches and did.. This is the crux of the OP: I did not intend to be put on trial here...

oh

I did not know you thought you were on trial?

are you sure that people who do not agree with you are not on trial?

once again, confusing to say the least

 

[JaumeJ]

There seems to be a flock of folks coming in to argue anything else rather than to discuss teh simple teachings of the Word..

Remember the solution given in the OP......Do what Jesus teaches and did.

This flock is against these teachings in favor of keeping this thread in an uproar.

Now either deny we should do as did our Lord, and hear what He teaches or say why this is not a proper approach to satisfy both Grace detractors and law detractors, for neither are 100% correct with constan bickering on the two, for the two coexist in Jesus Christ. Hear Him, for He speaks of both as valid...........

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

No you didn't answer the question. You avoided it through your elaborate deflection mechanism of many words. The glaze that you have put over your mind is simply amazing. You have become so hypnotized by a paradigm that you're not even able to reason logically from what the text plainly says. It's like a mental disorder. Astonishing. A 5-year-old child could answer my question.

You're very close to the gnostics who think only those who have special knowledge can understand the truth.

Your question was in error to begin with by trying to pit the law against grace, as I tried to explain by multiple verses of scripture. But your original question exposes your error in thinking, like so many others in these forums who try to pit the law against grace who are also in error.

Here is my point confirmed by scripture.....Galatians 3:21 "Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law."

There it is plain as day if you can hear it. The promise of the Father by grace is the receiving of the Holy Spirit.(The Spirit gives life, not the letter of the law) But is the law against (opposed to, contrary etc) the promises of God? GOD FORBID!!!!

People have been deceived into thinking that the law is against the promises, or that the law is the curse, or even that the law is sin, which is foolishness!

The real enemy here people is sin, and death by sin, not the law of God.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I answered the question but you like many others have a hard time hearing the answer. You came with the proposition and question that the Spirit working by grace and the Spirit of the law are speaking 2 different things, as if they are contrary to one another.

I'm really not interested in hearing what you want me to hear, but for you to answer a very basic question. Since you have no willingness or capacity to do that, let me try it this way.

Premise 1:
The law commands that every male be physically circumcised, and those who weren't were cut off from Israel.

If any male is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin, that man will be cut off from his people; he has broken My covenant. Genesis 17:14

And in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised. Leviticus 12:3​

Premise 2:
Every believing male who gets physically circumcised in order to be obedient to Leviticus 12:3 is under obligation to keep the whole law and are cut off from Christ.

And I testify again to every man who receives [physical] circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. ... For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love. Galatians 5:3-4, 6​

Do you agree that both premises are true?

 

[ember]

Then went the Pharisees, and took counsel how they might entangle him in his talk.
Mathew 22:15

The dividers are always the second to arrive with comments of controversy, instigating diversionary comments that the OP doesn't suggest, basing their premature assumptions on their preconceived purpose. Whose tactics are manifested here? Let the truth be known.

Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. Romans 16:17

Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. Romans 8:33

 

[ember]

There seems to be a flock of folks coming in to argue anything else rather than to discuss teh simple teachings of the Word..

Remember the solution given in the OP......Do what Jesus teaches and did.

This flock is against these teachings in favor of keeping this thread in an uproar.

Now either deny we should do as did our Lord, and hear what He teaches or say why this is not a proper approach to satisfy both Grace detractors and law detractors, for neither are 100% correct with constan bickering on the two, for the two coexist in Jesus Christ. Hear Him, for He speaks of both as valid...........

we are simply the flock of HIS pasture....God provides the green pasture and the fresh running water

judge not that ye be not judged

 

[JaumeJ]

It is not a devious teaching, that being to teach all to be as much like Jesus Christ as is given us power to be while living in grace. We are children of obedience, just as He was perfectly obedient.

I know Jesus Christ did not teach anyone to be disobedient, and you know this is true.

Faith will always lead to works, and nobody say works will not save one, for we all know our salvation is by the Blood of the Lamb of God. Do not twist this more than you already have.

I do not judge any who do this, for you judge yourselves. Out of your own mouth comes your own declarations, and they will be known come our ¨blessed Lord' return.

Those of you who pervert obedience into being under the law also are walking on thin ice. Take care what charges you bring upon the children of obedience, for they are known by the Father.

You say you love your enemy, and you chide brethren who believe in obedience to the Father twisting it and perverting that into being under the law. You do not know what you are saying, and please do not run to Pau to explain the perversions you make of Christ's teachings for Christ is Paul's teacher also, and ours too. Paul does not contradict Christ...so lelave him out of it.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

I'm really not interested in hearing what you want me to hear, but for you to answer a very basic question. Since you have no willingness or capacity to do that, let me try it this way.

Premise 1:
The law commands that every male be physically circumcised, and those who weren't were cut off from Israel.

If any male is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin, that man will be cut off from his people; he has broken My covenant. Genesis 17:14

And in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised. Leviticus 12:3​

Premise 2:
Every believing male who gets physically circumcised in order to be obedient to Leviticus 12:3 is under obligation to keep the whole law and are cut off from Christ.

And I testify again to every man who receives [physical] circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. ... For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love. Galatians 5:3-4, 6​

Do you agree that both premises are true?

Evidently you don't wanna hear because I already explained that in Post #36

 

[just-me]

No one has answered my question yet. How ..How do we..Do what Jesus teaches and did."

Kefa

First stop using Christ as a source of denying a substantial part of His own Father's words. It's Jesus only that has the everlasting power to set at variance. It's not given to us to even attempt such an act, for it will come back to haunt us in the end.

For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. Matthew 10:35

How do we..Do what Jesus teaches and did."

Speak the same things as Jesus' Father did and does.

And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak. John 12:50