the lie that Jesus ministry was law

[followjesus]

With posts like this it's no wonder some are against women preachers.

isnt it crazy how they never say " you need to go reqd Gods word" theyll tell you " go buy a copy of glorious grace" or listen to this andrew wommack teaching.......but its never " Look what Jesus said here, look what hes teaching. crazy doctrines come from ideas like " the new creation" being a description of the church lol and not at all the new nature were told about from the gospels through the epistles. clothing ourselves with Christ, putting to death the sinful nature, crucifying the flesh ect..ect...the more i read these guys comments the more i realize they arent just a little off here, and a little off there........its really a whole different version of salvation from what is written with all these strange secret combinations of how things work. like the " grace lens" that you need to have to really see it, rather than accepting and seeing with the eyes the spirit gives. how gog omits probably 70 percent of scripture and calls it " dividing the word properly" ....thier " proper" division is simple math - deny, omit, explain away, twist to fit ANYTHING that suggests you have to repent of sin, and follow the Lord Jesus with your whole heart. deny anything that warns sinners of hell and eternal damnation. any guilt is "from the devil" even if you sinned, no need to apologize, feel bad, make amends, ect...because " its all by Grace now, your already forgiven, God doesnt want you to make effort, its grace, Gods word really doesnt actually apply.......only paul, but ONLY the few teachoings he had that we can make sound like glorious grace and freedom from all authority and law ............i think the gog is nearing islam in my own thinking as far as how close to christianity it actually is.

goggers should start a new religion and use old churches maybe have communes with no rules allowed, all grace, no consequences, no bible, just the book " grace revolution" they could easily add number systems like joseph chapter 4 sentance 28.." see it says here in joseph 4:28 dont obey God its a trap!" dont repent its a "boast of the flesh" just say i believe, if anyone asks.....tell them Jesus is Lord and you Love Him. but whatever you do, dont examine your own actions in life, dont take re4sponsability for anything, its " finished works". or they can simply say hey..we have " the spirit" we dont even need scripture at all who needs words from God?....theyll just make us think wrong...


sorry buddy s63 i vented and ranted a bit here God bless ya man Keep on your path

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes let's share more of the passage...

Titus 3:1-5
3 Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work,

2 To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men.

3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.

4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;


Context, context, context.

What appeared? The kindness and love of God.

How? Not by works of righteousness we have done but according to his mercy.

So now that we know how we received God's grace, would you agree that Titus 2:11-14 (which precedes Titus 3) is scripture's definition of grace itself?

1. No I do not. The definition of grace is titus 3: 5.

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but BY HIS MERCY.

Grace is gods mercy, it is how we are saved, Not by works (all the things in Titus 2) but by Gods mercy,

He washed us

He gave us new birth (regeneration)

2. Since Gods grace has saved us (past tense) all the things spoken of in Titus 2 (the result of being saved) Ephesians 1 (all the blessings God has given us) and other things, are now possible.

 

[followjesus]

Yes let's share more of the passage...

Titus 3:1-5
3 Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work,

2 To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men.

3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.

4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;


Context, context, context.

What appeared? The kindness and love of God.

How? Not by works of righteousness we have done but according to his mercy.

So now that we know how we received God's grace, would you agree that Titus 2:11-14 (which precedes Titus 3) is scripture's definition of grace itself?

just wanted to say. Just because Gods kindness appeared while we were sinners to save us from the curse of the law, does not in any way remove the obligation of those who were bought with Jesus blood, to follow His word. Gods Kindness and Love appeared with Jesus 1 john 3 , before that we had no hope, no chance, no life. His grace saved us when we couldnt save ourselves because we were slaves to sin. also grace is evident in genesis 2 on, God gave adam everything, warned Him. all because He is gracious to His beloved..........but He also teaches and disciplines those He loves, if it is needed rebukes them ect.... Grace doesnt change the fact that God tells us what is right, what is wrong and to do what is right, Grace gives us a spirit of holiness through Jesus, when we accept Him we can be nothing but a sinner who died with Jesus, and was raised with Him to newness of Life << thats our goal now on this earth. the gospel teachings of Christ are Life for anyone who will believes them and apply them to Life. when we start forgiving others, giving to the truly needy among us all wherever we are there are needy folks we could help, when we learn to bless our persecutors, to turn the other cheek. when we learn not to judge others, to seek ask and knock, to pray in all circumstances, to thank God on a regular daily basis not just for our lives here and things but Because Jesus gave His Life for us each one individually and as a whole.

 

[followjesus]

1. No I do not. The definition of grace is titus 3: 5.

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but BY HIS MERCY.

Grace is gods mercy, it is how we are saved, Not by works (all the things in Titus 2) but by Gods mercy,

He washed us

He gave us new birth (regeneration)

2. Since Gods grace has saved us (past tense) all the things spoken of in Titus 2 (the result of being saved) Ephesians 1 (all the blessings God has given us) and other things, are now possible.

guy. " neither do I condemn you" <<<SAVED BY GRACE she was as good as dead, he had compassion and gave mercy.

Now "go and leave your life of sin" <<<<the truth, the ministry of Jesus

svaed by Grace, FOR THE PURPOSE OF DOING THE GOOD WORKS ALREADY PREPARED FOR YOU TO ACTUALLY DO.

or in other words " it is NOT THOSE WHO CALL ME LORD LORD who will be saved, ONLY those who DO the will of God.


the will of God is simple...believe Jesus, Jesus is simple, Learn what im teaching you to do, and do it.


its not that complex and being saved by grace doesnt omit anything before or after, its Just paul telling you guys the same things since the prophets and law, actually paul SAYS HIMSELF so you get His ministry, well, his own view written in scripture which doesnt hold much wieght in the bdf...but you know me

first ephesians 2:9-10 "For it is by grace you have been saved, THROUGH FAITH—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]NOT BY WORKS[/FONT], so that NO ONE CAN BOAST. For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus TO DO GOOD WORKS , which God prepared in advance FOR US TO DO."

grace through faith, not grace only. BECAUSE OF GRACE we are saved, FOR THE PURPOSE of accepting and actually doing what Jesus taught us to actually do. its the same concept as Jesus taught about trees that bear no fruit being cut down and thrown away, good fruit is the goal of salvation righteousness that you guys always refer to being "credited with" that should be actions coming from the true belief, or good fruit coming from a good tree. because God is so gracious and Loves us, He saved us from death under the first covenant

hebrews 9:15 "For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance--now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the SINS COMMITED under the first covenant."

this does not say were forgiven present and future but for the sins commited before we were released from the first covenant of stone. the things before we accept Jesus. when we are released from the mosaic law, you guys simply deny and dont see that you are bound to Jesus and if you refuse that yoke there is no other way. Jesus words are Life for the children of God its as simple as that. learning them, believing them, keeping them, living them out. lrearning from Jesus how to Love Like God taught man to Love. we are re created in Jesus Christ, to be transformed into the image of righteousness, to actually DO good works....there are no teachings that say to rest in Jesus works when oit comes to your responsability in daily life to walk the part as IS required. its not taught either that when we face Jesus at the judgement, " i will reward them according to what they believe" its actually" i will give to each person according to what they have done" the gog doctrine is just an elaborite house of cards it looks solid but if you dig into scripture you see that its an illusion...well....a deception really

 

[eternally-gratefull]

guy. " neither do I condemn you" <<<SAVED BY GRACE she was as good as dead, he had compassion and gave mercy.

Now "go and leave your life of sin" <<<<the truth, the ministry of Jesus

svaed by Grace, FOR THE PURPOSE OF DOING THE GOOD WORKS ALREADY PREPARED FOR YOU TO ACTUALLY DO.

or in other words " it is NOT THOSE WHO CALL ME LORD LORD who will be saved, ONLY those who DO the will of God.


the will of God is simple...believe Jesus, Jesus is simple, Learn what im teaching you to do, and do it.


its not that complex and being saved by grace doesnt omit anything before or after, its Just paul telling you guys the same things since the prophets and law, actually paul SAYS HIMSELF so you get His ministry, well, his own view written in scripture which doesnt hold much wieght in the bdf...but you know me

first ephesians 2:9-10 "For it is by grace you have been saved, THROUGH FAITH—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— NOT BY WORKS, so that NO ONE CAN BOAST. For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus TO DO GOOD WORKS , which God prepared in advance FOR US TO DO."

grace through faith, not grace only. BECAUSE OF GRACE we are saved, FOR THE PURPOSE of accepting and actually doing what Jesus taught us to actually do. its the same concept as Jesus taught about trees that bear no fruit being cut down and thrown away, good fruit is the goal of salvation righteousness that you guys always refer to being "credited with" that should be actions coming from the true belief, or good fruit coming from a good tree. because God is so gracious and Loves us, He saved us from death under the first covenant

hebrews 9:15 "For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance--now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the SINS COMMITED under the first covenant."

this does not say were forgiven present and future but for the sins commited before we were released from the first covenant of stone. the things before we accept Jesus. when we are released from the mosaic law, you guys simply deny and dont see that you are bound to Jesus and if you refuse that yoke there is no other way. Jesus words are Life for the children of God its as simple as that. learning them, believing them, keeping them, living them out. lrearning from Jesus how to Love Like God taught man to Love. we are re created in Jesus Christ, to be transformed into the image of righteousness, to actually DO good works....there are no teachings that say to rest in Jesus works when oit comes to your responsability in daily life to walk the part as IS required. its not taught either that when we face Jesus at the judgement, " i will reward them according to what they believe" its actually" i will give to each person according to what they have done" the gog doctrine is just an elaborite house of cards it looks solid but if you dig into scripture you see that its an illusion...well....a deception really

I do not understand

How can one add works to grace, Faith is not works, Faith produces work, It is those who do not have faith in God where no work is produced.

Paul made it clear in Titus 3:5. It is not by our good works, Our good deeds, Our morally or righteous living, in which we save ourselves. But BY GODS MERCY, HE SAVED US.

It says God washed us and made us clean, It says God made us alive who were dead in trespasses and sin. (regeneration) The Holy Spirit did this work, Not you, Not me, Not any man, or any woman, No amount of good deeds we could ever do, would be enough to save us for 1 minute, let alone for all of eternity.

so why do people want to twist this and make it seem like we HAVE or are OBLIGATED to save ourselves by good works, When scripture makes it clear. NO AMOUNT OF GOOD WORKS CAN SAVE ANYONE.

Jesus fulfilled the law. You can not. for this reason, apart from Christ you are a sinner, Condemned, Under a curse, and dead (spiritually) You are in Adam, and there is nothing you can do to save yourself. period.

He took your penalty (made expiation, Made Atonement, Made redemption. Made propitiation, He washed us, He justified us,, He sanctifies us, He gave us (past tense) Eternal life, He said we will never hunger or thirst, We will live forever, Never die, He will raise us, He will glorify us.

It is by GRACE we have been saved THROUGH FAITH, Not works, lest any man should boast. Why do people want to take glory from God and place their works in the equation of salvation. God will not share his glory with anyone, Not you, Not me, Not anyone on this earth. It is HIS GLORY, yet here we have people wanting to share in that glory and boast of their works and how they are saved because of them, Or they will not lose salvation, because they are not like the sinner, WHEN THEY ARE!

Lord Lord,,, this was not spoken to licentious people who think they can say a prayer and live a life of sin. This was spoken to religious people. WHo had all their works, Who stood there not on the basis of what Christ did, but on the basis of what they did "lord did we not do all these great works in your name" What will jesus say, Depart. FOR I NEVER KNEW YOU.. who practice sin..

Yes,, the self righteous religious person practices sin, They just deny it, like the pharisee. They judge sinners, Reject security in Christ, and boast of all their righteous works, and how they are the truth people of God because they preach obedience and rule living. yet they reject Grace, or twist grace to be somethign it never was, and never will be.

The woman, Why do people mix this passage up? Like th eprodigal son, they focus on the sinner and not the people who Jesus was trying to out, the religious. The brother who stayed and did not walk away.

Neither do I condemn you, Jesus just condemned the pharisees who tried to correctly say this woman deserved to be stoned according to the law. Jesus said, Let he who has no sin ie, let he who is worthy of judging others, because they have lived up to Gods standard, throw the first stone. Who threw the stone? The people did what Paul said in Romans 1. Knew what was wrong, and they were deserving of death, But hardened their hearts.

to the woman, Go and sin no more. DO not continue in that one sin you were judged of.. I have better things for you.

Thats the message for all Gods children. But that is not what we are discussing, we are discussing, what is grace. How is one saved.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Yes let's share more of the passage...

Titus 3:1-5
3 Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work,

2 To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men.

3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.

4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;


Context, context, context.

What appeared? The kindness and love of God.

How? Not by works of righteousness we have done but according to his mercy.

So now that we know how we received God's grace, would you agree that Titus 2:11-14 (which precedes Titus 3) is scripture's definition of grace itself?

What Titus defines is that grace "appeared" because Christ appeared. That God's grace is never detached from Christ Himself, as it is the very expression of the essence of God Himself.

 

[blessedjohn80]

just wanted to say. Just because Gods kindness appeared while we were sinners to save us from the curse of the law, does not in any way remove the obligation of those who were bought with Jesus blood, to follow His word.

If you are still obligated to follow the law then you really believe that you have not been saved by the curse of the law. By living this way, you do good things to be worthy and expect curses when you fail.

Believe that God loves you unconditionally and that the law is fulfilled through Jesus.

You are no longer a slave but a child and an heir. Slaves are obligated to work. Children receive inheritance apart from works.

But if you insist being a slave God will still save you and bless you, like the older son in Luke 15:11-32, God will tell you "Look, dear son, you have always stayed by me, and everything I have is yours."

Can't we just accept that God is just awesome. Is it really that hard to understand just how God loves you unconditionally?

 

[Grandpa]

Is it really that hard to understand just how God loves you unconditionally?

It is impossible to understand.

But its true... lol

 

[SunsSunny]

Those who are under law... Well sucks to be them cause we are under grace. Jesus brought the "law" of love, he gave us illustrations to show and teach us about love. I believe personally my entire life's purpose can be summed up in this: learn to love . God is love. There is no end to the depths of love.

the law made for the lawbreakers but against good things such as gentleness and kindness and generosity, there is no law. All done in pure and holy love in Christ is legal you are allowed to love as much as you want!

Thats is what I feel Jesus taught . "A new commendment I give to you: love one another as I have loved you"
the simplication of all laws, the fullness of the Old Testament law was summed up in love. Love God, love your neighbor .

theres no speed limit when it comes to love and I like to drive fast !

 

[Grandpa]

theres no speed limit when it comes to love and I like to drive fast !

Haha. I'm stealing that...

 

[FreeNChrist]

If you are still obligated to follow the law then you really believe that you have not been saved by the curse of the law. By living this way, you do good things to be worthy and expect curses when you fail.

Believe that God loves you unconditionally and that the law is fulfilled through Jesus.

You are no longer a slave but a child and an heir. Slaves are obligated to work. Children receive inheritance apart from works.

But if you insist being a slave God will still save you and bless you, like the older son in Luke 15:11-32, God will tell you "Look, dear son, you have always stayed by me, and everything I have is yours."

Can't we just accept that God is just awesome. Is it really that hard to understand just how God loves you unconditionally?

Not much has changed in 2000 years....

"The sinners to whom Jesus directed His messianic ministry were not those who skipped morning devotions or Sunday church. His ministry was to those whom society considered real sinners. They had done nothing to merit salvation. Yet they opened themselves to the gift that was offered them. On the other hand, the self-righteous placed their trust in the works of the Law and closed their hearts to the message of grace.” - Brennan Manning

 

[blessedjohn80]

false doctrines work hard to omit Jesus words, because Jesus words are salvation. Just as Gods word was Life in the garden. Dont be decieved by someone telling you Jesus gospel was him teaching law and therefore doesnt apply, its false. Jesus taught the kingdom of God, just like his apostles including paul. james, peter and john who said this

Jesus taught the way of Life, dont let " grace" omit the truth.

Don't be deceived by someone telling you that you don't deserve salvation because you can't keep the law that Jesus taught.

Because the law that was required of you went to Jesus in order to save you. The lie is that you still need to follow the way of the law to be saved.

Believing on Jesus as your savior means exactly as it sounds. Jesus is your savior. Meaning the only requirement to salvation is faith in God. In this way, everyone has equal opportunity, everyone can receive salvation, everyone can know God's immense love.

That is why "I am the way, the truth, and the life" stands true forever.

 

[JaumeJ]

No one I know of teaches one must be saved by obeying the law, however all who are saved by the Blood of the Lamb of God are not licentious in any manner and ae children of obedience as is taught particularly in Ephesianes...

To twist the meaning of being obedient to "saving oneself" is a diabolical lie, and whoever teaches such must repent of this damning accusation.

I do not judge them or anhyone but I must judge formyself what is right as Jesus teaches us to do. Let no man judge you for being obedient, for such a judgment will be forthcoming on the Day of the Lord. People will judge themselves by their own words.... I am not trying to be spooky or overbearing, but in love I must advise all to beware of such.

 

[blessedjohn80]

It's amazing just how much peace and love I received when God showed me what grace was all about. I think that moment in my life was like the moment Paul's sight was restored. Things in scripture made more sense. God seemed very distant then but now He's there with me.

Honestly, I still have a lot of legalistic habits like, relying on my effort to get provision, and sometimes still think that my past sins will prevent God from blessing me. It's a struggle still, but with a whole lot of peace every time I think of Jesus.

I never really understood back then how His yoke was easy and the burden light. But now, it's just so awesome to know that it is indeed true. He does give me true rest, He teaches me, and He is humble and gentle.

 

[FreeNChrist]

No one I know of teaches one must be saved by obeying the law, however all who are saved by the Blood of the Lamb of God are not licentious in any manner and ae children of obedience as is taught particularly in Ephesianes...

To twist the meaning of being obedient to "saving oneself" is a diabolical lie, and whoever teaches such must repent of this damning accusation.

I do not judge them or anhyone but I must judge formyself what is right as Jesus teaches us to do. Let no man judge you for being obedient, for such a judgment will be forthcoming on the Day of the Lord. People will judge themselves by their own words.... I am not trying to be spooky or overbearing, but in love I must advise all to beware of such.

So, whether one obeys the Law or not it has no bearing on one's salvation?

 

[JaumeJ]

I invite you and all to read my possts in this thread. They ask that all learn from Jesus Christ how the law is to be obeyed. I realize there ae so many who stir the manure who are so full of peace and love......they are indeed full of it.

There is not one thing wrong with obeying according to the teching of Jesus Christ. Any who call this being a legalist are apparantly anti-Christ in that they are advising against His teaching........now before you comment on on post, read the rest or simply meditate on learning from Jesus Chrsit. Try it, it will be a new experience for many.

It's amazing just how much peace and love I received when God showed me what grace was all about. I think that moment in my life was like the moment Paul's sight was restored. Things in scripture made more sense. God seemed very distant then but now He's there with me.

Honestly, I still have a lot of legalistic habits like, relying on my effort to get provision, and sometimes still think that my past sins will prevent God from blessing me. It's a struggle still, but with a whole lot of peace every time I think of Jesus.

I never really understood back then how His yoke was easy and the burden light. But now, it's just so awesome to know that it is indeed true. He does give me true rest, He teaches me, and He is humble and gentle.

 

[blessedjohn80]

I invite you and all to read my possts in this thread. They ask that all learn from Jesus Christ how the law is to be obeyed. I realize there ae so many who stir the manure who are so full of peace and love......they are indeed full of it.

There is not one thing wrong with obeying according to the teching of Jesus Christ. Any who call this being a legalist are apparantly anti-Christ in that they are advising against His teaching........now before you comment on on post, read the rest or simply meditate on learning from Jesus Chrsit. Try it, it will be a new experience for many.

Let me clarify. For my part, I believe that Jesus did and will do all the saving/salvation. That is where I put my confidence in. And to anyone who teaches that to be saved they need to do good works is contradicting what Jesus came in the first place.

And the only thing I'm proud to be full of would be God's peace and love. Jesus came to sinners, lepers, and the poor, He did not condemn them for being what they were but healed them. He healed he did not turn away from them. He even spoke with the pharisees and rebuked them tried to wake them up from their blind pride and self-worth and doctrines. The only time He turned away was to an unbelieving town.

Believe God loves you unconditionally through Jesus. Don't be fooled by people who act like gatekeepers, turning away the believing sinners and the poor. Believe in the people who spread God's grace and love.

 

[blessedjohn80]

Judas was always calculating everything even when he was with Jesus. Don't be a Judas to yourself and calculate your worth. Jesus has already paid for you at the cross. In God's eyes you are as beloved as Jesus is.

 

[JaumeJ]

Let me, again, clarify, for teh part of all. It is good to obey Jesus Christ and His teaching for He only is the Teacher, Rabboni.

To need to justify oneself against this truth I share demonstrates a lack of belief of Jesus Christ and it should be remedied by study of His teaching, and adherence to His taching, that constitutes being an obedient child of God.

Learn of God, it is written that we are taught of God. Paul teaches the same, for His Teacher is Jesus Christ.

It is always easiest to read, study and meditate on the actual words of Christ teaching in the four Godpels of the Word. If it helps, read a red letter version.

 

[Grace777x70]

It's amazing just how much peace and love I received when God showed me what grace was all about. I think that moment in my life was like the moment Paul's sight was restored. Things in scripture made more sense. God seemed very distant then but now He's there with me.

Honestly, I still have a lot of legalistic habits like, relying on my effort to get provision, and sometimes still think that my past sins will prevent God from blessing me. It's a struggle still, but with a whole lot of peace every time I think of Jesus.

I never really understood back then how His yoke was easy and the burden light. But now, it's just so awesome to know that it is indeed true. He does give me true rest, He teaches me, and He is humble and gentle.

Amen....I had the exact same thing happen to me. I used to say within myself when I heard the verse quoted that His yoke was easy - where is this easy and burden is light thing?...this religious Christian life is horrible.

But the Lord Himself taught me about His grace and the true gospel of the grace of Christ before I even heard of any of these so-called "big name teachers" and ever since I can now see His yoke is easy and His burden is light.

It is like being born again - again...lol...and I have heard so many people say this exact same thing after hearing the true gospel of Christ.

Once we have seen Christ for who He and the Father really are in the true gospel - we can never go back. The true gospel of the grace of Christ makes one fall deeper in love with Jesus and live a holier life that bears His fruit in our lives and glorifies God.

I have said it before that one of the major enemies of the Lord Jesus Christ and His gospel is the Christian religion called Christianity.