The Pope had no answer...do you?

[Elin]

The reason why God allows children to suffer and starve is because
the problem is not his but ours.

Mankind cannot fix that problem.

"The poor you will always have with you." (Mt 26:11)

 

[Jon4TheCross]

I think the question is open to all.It is,after all,a discussion forum.

I was just making a point, and not implying my words are more valuable than others.

 

[Dan_473]

I guess I just wonder where the compassion is in all of this. So there is sin and it causes all of this suffering to happen to innocent people, notably children. So where is the compassion from God for these people who are suffering? Throughout the Bible and through testimony from modern-day Christians, we see God interacting with the world and the people in it, often alleviating suffering and rescuing those in need. But then there are those whose suffering is not alleviated and who do not find rescue.

What further convolutes things is the way God acts according to modern-day Christians in developed countries. We believe and credit God for helping us with these small, trivial things. Helping us find a job. Healing us from a minor illness. Comforting us when we are sad. Leading us to our future spouse. We believe God does all these things, yet for some reason He feels no need to help or rescue those who are truly in need in impoverished nations like the Philippines, where hundreds, no, thousands of children are left homeless, many of them abused, never knowing what it's like to be loved. Yet praise God, he helped me find my lost dog yesterday. Does anyone else see what's wrong with this picture?

Great post! I'll be glad to take a stab at responding to the questions here in #13... first, let's go with the question implied in at the opening... "Why does God let children suffer?"

I think it's because God wanted to create the best possible world... that includes free choice... that means that some humans will choose to hurt others... do you have ideas about a better world? I'm very interested...

 

[kaylagrl]

So now it's our fault. So basically because we decide not to help, God says, "I guess I'm not going to help either. Tough luck for that person in need. Looks like Lucy over here didn't answer the call to go help you, so now you're just going to have die in your suffering. But don't worry, I'll help Lucy's car start tomorrow and make sure her grandma gets over her cold."

I mean, let's say you and a friend walk into a room and you come across a man bleeding to death asking for help. You both have working cell phones. However, your friend decides not to help the guy and leaves. You decide that since your friend didn't help, you won't help. The police catch up with you later and ask, "why didn't you help?". You say, "Oh, my friend should have helped. I mean, he had a working phone and everything. There was no reason for him not to help. It probably would've made him feel real good too and grow more as a person, but my friend didn't do it." The cop responds, "So because your friend didn't help, you thought it was okay for you not to help, even though you had a working cell phone as well." "Exactly", you say.

Once again. Not much compassion here. Whether it's sin's fault, our fault, or their fault, it doesn't eliminate the fact that God is able to help these people. Most Christians believe God does work in the world, including helping people. I'm not following the logic that us not doing our part somehow makes it okay for God not to do anything. Not to mention that there is no way we could help with this as well or as easily as God can.

Jesus said "the poor you will have with you always".But he didn't let us off the hook for looking after the poor.As a Christian it is definitely up to us to help the poor and needy.Those who are blessed and can afford to give more,should,if they call themselves a Christian.Those of us who cannot afford to do as much still should do what we can.Here are a few verses that talk about how Christians should help the poor.


Deuteronomy 14:28-29At the end of every three years, bring all the tithes of that year's produce and store it in your towns so that the Levites (who have no allotment or inheritance of their own) and the aliens, the fatherless and the widows who live in your towns may come and eat and be satisfied, and so that the LORD your God may bless you in all the work of your hands.


Deuteronomy 15:7-8If there is a poor man among your brothers in any of the towns of the land that the LORD your God is giving you, do not be hardhearted or tightfisted toward your poor brother. Rather be openhanded and freely lend him whatever he needs


Deuteronomy 15:11There will always be poor people in the land. Therefore I command you to be openhanded toward your brothers and toward the poor and needy in your land.


Psalm 82:3-4Defend the cause of the weak and fatherless; maintain the rights of the poor and oppressed. Rescue the weak and needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked.


Proverbs 3:27-28Do not withhold good from those who deserve it, when it is in your power to act. Do not say to your neighbor, "Come back later; I'll give it tomorrow" — when you now have it with you.


Proverbs 14:20-21The poor are shunned even by their neighbors, but the rich have many friends. He who despises his neighbor sins, but blessed is he who is kind to the needy.

Proverbs 14:31He who oppresses the poor shows contempt for their Maker, but whoever is kind to the needy honors God

Proverbs 19:17He who is kind to the poor lends to the LORD, and he will reward him for what he has done.

Proverbs 22:22-23Do not exploit the poor because they are poor and do not crush the needy in court, for the LORD will take up their case and will plunder those who plunder them.

Proverbs 31:8-9"Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute. Speak up and judge fairly; defend the rights of the poor and needy."


Isaiah 1:17Seek justice, encourage the oppressed. Defend the cause of the fatherless, plead the case of the widow.

Matthew 25:34-40"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'
Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'
The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'


Luke 14:12-14Then Jesus said to his host, "When you give a luncheon or dinner, do not invite your friends, your brothers or relatives, or your rich neighbors; if you do, they may invite you back and so you will be repaid. But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed. Although they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous."

Acts 20:35"In everything I did, I showed you that by this kind of hard work we must help the weak, remembering the words the Lord Jesus himself said: 'It is more blessed to give than to receive.'"

James 1:27Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress...


James 2:15-17Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.


1 John 3:17-18If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth.



So yes,its rests on us to help the poor and needy.And a final verse.....

Ezekiel 16:49"Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy."


America is the most giving country in the world.Any disaster the US is the first there and gives the most money and help according to stats.Israel is next I believe.Why does the US have such blessing,because they have helped the needy.But there is always more to give,more to be done. Lest we become like Sodom.

 

[kaylagrl]

I was just making a point, and not implying my words are more valuable than others.

Yes I noticed that and was about to post you.Once I read back I understood what you were saying.Sorry.

 

[kaylagrl]

Mankind cannot fix that problem.

"The poor you will always have with you." (Mt 26:11)

Yes but we cant let that be a cop out.God tells us how to respond to the poor.If we dont their blood is on our hands.

 

[Hizikyah]

Deuteronomy 15:7-8If there is a poor man among your brothers in any of the towns of the land that the LORD your God is giving you, do not be hardhearted or tightfisted toward your poor brother. Rather be openhanded and freely lend him whatever he needs

Wow, I really enjoyed that post, those words stir up the Spirit of Yah within me, and make me want and long to support those who are less fortunate, for it brings to remembrance the righteous principles that He will guide us to!

Praise Yah!!!!!!!!!!

I want to highlight a few to thoroughly encourage the beauty within;

Deuteronomy 14:28-29At the end of every three years, bring all the tithes of that year's produce and store it in your towns so that the Levites (who have no allotment or inheritance of their own) and the aliens, the fatherless and the widows who live in your towns may come and eat and be satisfied, and so that the LORD your God may bless you in all the work of your hands.

Deuteronomy 15:7-8If there is a poor man among your brothers in any of the towns of the land that the LORD your God is giving you, do not be hardhearted or tightfisted toward your poor brother. Rather be openhanded and freely lend him whatever he needs

Deuteronomy 15:11There will always be poor people in the land. Therefore I command you to be openhanded toward your brothers and toward the poor and needy in your land.

Psalm 82:3-4Defend the cause of the weak and fatherless; maintain the rights of the poor and oppressed. Rescue the weak and needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked.


Proverbs 3:27-28Do not withhold good from those who deserve it, when it is in your power to act. Do not say to your neighbor, "Come back later; I'll give it tomorrow" — when you now have it with you.

Proverbs 14:20-21The poor are shunned even by their neighbors, but the rich have many friends. He who despises his neighbor sins, but blessed is he who is kind to the needy.

Proverbs 14:31He who oppresses the poor shows contempt for their Maker, but whoever is kind to the needy honors God

Proverbs 19:17He who is kind to the poor lends to the LORD, and he will reward him for what he has done.

Proverbs 22:22-23Do not exploit the poor because they are poor and do not crush the needy in court, for the LORD will take up their case and will plunder those who plunder them.

Proverbs 31:8-9"Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute. Speak up and judge fairly; defend the rights of the poor and needy."


Isaiah 1:17Seek justice, encourage the oppressed. Defend the cause of the fatherless, plead the case of the widow.

Matthew 25:34-40"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.' Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?' The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'

Luke 14:12-14Then Jesus said to his host, "When you give a luncheon or dinner, do not invite your friends, your brothers or relatives, or your rich neighbors; if you do, they may invite you back and so you will be repaid. But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed. Although they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous."

Acts 20:35"In everything I did, I showed you that by this kind of hard work we must help the weak, remembering the words the Lord Jesus himself said: 'It is more blessed to give than to receive.'"

James 1:27Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress...

James 2:15-17Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

1 John 3:17-18If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth.

So yes,its rests on us to help the poor and needy.And a final verse.....

Ezekiel 16:49"Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy."

THAT IS THE PERFECT STANDARD OF LOVE ...

If we were taught these principles as children, how much better would this world be? not saying perfect, but that is love. The people of the world need love.

 

[kaylagrl]

I'm going to go to bed, so I'll sum this up as best I can.

I suppose it all ends up being a matter of perspective. Some people on here seem to believe that suffering is deserved because of sin. Others because we are not doing enough ourselves to help our fellow man. Others believe that in the end, all will be righted, so the suffering of today can be overlooked. However you look at it, the reality is that God is allowing innocent people to suffer for some reason. Something is superseding the mercy and compassion that He should be showing to these poor souls. What exactly is superseding that is debatable, and whether or not that is acceptable is a matter of opinion.

It is not acceptable! And it is not Gods will.He has blessed those to reach these needy people.If they do not and become greedy they will loose their blessing.The US has found that out recently.God commands us to go and help the needy,to give to lend whatever they need.It is up to us.
Now that being said because of the corruption of many of these gov'ts it can be hard to get help to the needy as someone else mentioned here.But as much as we are able we are commanded to help the needy.If you cant go,then help missionaries go.But make sure the money is getting to the needy.Give and it will be given one to you,its better to give than receive.There is no excuse.

 

[Hizikyah]

It is not acceptable! And it is not Gods will.He has blessed those to reach these needy people.If they do not and become greedy they will loose their blessing.The US has found that out recently.God commands us to go and help the needy,to give to lend whatever they need.It is up to us.
Now that being said because of the corruption of many of these gov'ts it can be hard to get help to the needy as someone else mentioned here.But as much as we are able we are commanded to help the needy.If you cant go,then help missionaries go.But make sure the money is getting to the needy.Give and it will be given one to you,its better to give than receive.There is no excuse.

I agree giving it first hand....

There are tent cities in america this was a wake up to me; and 3rd world countries are MUCH worse than this....

List of tent cities in the United States

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tent_cities_in_the_United_States

 

[notuptome]

We ought to be careful on this matter. I help the less fortunate here in my local community through my giving. Ought they not do the same over there? Verily around the world?

If you have the ability and then fail to give I see a problem. I cannot allow myself to become guilt ridden about what I cannot do but I must rejoice in what God allows me to do. I give as unto the Lord not as unto men.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[kaylagrl]

Wow, I really enjoyed that post, those words stir up the Spirit of Yah within me, and make me want and long to support those who are less fortunate, for it brings to remembrance the righteous principles that He will guide us to!

Praise Yah!!!!!!!!!!

I want to highlight a few to thoroughly encourage the beauty within;



THAT IS THE PERFECT STANDARD OF LOVE ...

If we were taught these principles as children, how much better would this world be? not saying perfect, but that is love. The people of the world need love.

Thank you brother and your spirit is stirring my spirit! My grandmother who has passed into glory use to minister to the children in her neighborhood.They were poor and hungry and she would bring them into her house and clean their little faces and hands and then she would feed them all.They came to her house almost every day.Was she a rich woman? No,she didnt even have a job,she and her husband had a small pension.But she raised five boys on her own.She knew what hunger was,and she knew what compassion was.
I met a missionary from Haiti years ago.She came to our church and then sat by me in the restaurant.We talked and the stories she told me made me cry.As a cart passed by us,full of food that had been left on the plate,she shook her head and with tears in her eyes said" that food could feed the children in my orphanage for a month". And I was convicted.How many times have I complained? How many times have I left food to rot? How many times have I missed the opportunity to be Christ to someone in need? Cause we can discuss on here,and argue who is right and wrong,and discuss politics and the state of the country all day long.But when it all comes down to it folks, are we Christ to those in need? What are we doing that is changing the world and bringing them closer to heaven? And I feel such conviction.I indulge myself too much on the things of this world that will pass away.Lord help me to see the need and fill and indulge myself less and less.Amen.

 

[Hizikyah]

We ought to be careful on this matter. I help the less fortunate here in my local community through my giving. Ought they not do the same over there? Verily around the world?

If you have the ability and then fail to give I see a problem. I cannot allow myself to become guilt ridden about what I cannot do but I must rejoice in what God allows me to do. I give as unto the Lord not as unto men.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I agree for this is what I "get" from the Spirit of Yah when I read ;

Leviticus 19:9"When you reap the harvest of your land, you shall not completely harvest the corners of your field, nor shall you gather the gleanings of your harvest. You shall not glean your vineyard, nor shall you gather every grape of your vineyard. You shall leave them for the poor and the stranger; I am Yahweh your Father."

"When you reap the harvest of your land"

*my imperfect commentary*: Not when I have a single bowl of rice, but when I harvest, aka "groceries"....when I have enough to share.

you shall not completely harvest the corners of your field

*my imperfect commentary*: give some of those "groceries" to another that is needy and has only a single bowl of rice....

JMOJMOJMOJMO...

 

[kaylagrl]

We ought to be careful on this matter. I help the less fortunate here in my local community through my giving. Ought they not do the same over there? Verily around the world?

If you have the ability and then fail to give I see a problem. I cannot allow myself to become guilt ridden about what I cannot do but I must rejoice in what God allows me to do. I give as unto the Lord not as unto men.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Other countries have given aid to the US in disaster.I am talking about giving to the poor and needy not the gov't currying favor for politics.I'm talking about personal responsibility.Im not talking about giving "unto men".The verses I quoted made that clear.And no ones saying be guilt ridden,the Bible says to give sacrificially as the woman with the widows mite.We are blessed to bless others.I see no need for caution.Give as the Lord has blessed you.

 

[Hizikyah]

Thank you brother and your spirit is stirring my spirit! My grandmother who has passed into glory use to minister to the children in her neighborhood.They were poor and hungry and she would bring them into her house and clean their little faces and hands and then she would feed them all.They came to her house almost every day.Was she a rich woman? No,she didnt even have a job,she and her husband had a small pension.But she raised five boys on her own.She knew what hunger was,and she knew what compassion was.

That is so amazing, strengthening and loving, truly, truly a light to others...

I want to bring something up a lot may not consider in this also.... Those children she showed compassion for, think about it.... He kind acts may have had such a great effect on them you know when someone has nothing and nobody, they can be led to do bad things to obtain food or whatever... But someone showning them love and offering them food etc can not only lead one awy from doing wrong to get it right there, but can help, through the power of Yah to bring that to remembrance and shpe who they are as not to do evil to obtain what they need, now I dont want to do this but... contrast that with what the world teaches-step on everybodys backs to get what you want.... no rather we should "work together" for the benefit of all mankind. These generous deeds can have such great impact on people....

I met a missionary from Haiti years ago.She came to our church and then sat by me in the restaurant.We talked and the stories she told me made me cry.As a cart passed by us,full of food that had been left on the plate,she shook her head and with tears in her eyes said" that food could feed the children in my orphanage for a month". And I was convicted.How many times have I complained? How many times have I left food to rot? How many times have I missed the opportunity to be Christ to someone in need? Cause we can discuss on here,and argue who is right and wrong,and discuss politics and the state of the country all day long.But when it all comes down to it folks, are we Christ to those in need? What are we doing that is changing the world and bringing them closer to heaven? And I feel such conviction.I indulge myself too much on the things of this world that will pass away.Lord help me to see the need and fill and indulge myself less and less.Amen.

You are right, I can do nothing but glean from what you say here. I feel like a "spoiled domesticated house cat" thank you for all these thoughts, may YHWH bless you and keep you.

 

[Hizikyah]

I feel like a "spoiled domesticated house cat"

Disclaimer, this is not a shot at those who have cats, it's a "saying" I use (have used for years) to illustrate how I truly feel when I look at the world.

 

[ColinCat]

Atheists have been banging on about this.
My question to atheists is: "okay, then why do YOU atheists let it happen?"

If I was an all powerful being who could end their suffering in an instant then i would do it.

Your god is capable of this but chooses not to

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

Essentially the OP is asking the age-old (supposedly) unanswerable question, "Why do bad things happen to good people?" First, biblically speaking, there are no "good people." Ecclesiastes 7:20; Romans 3:23; 1 John 1:8 Romans 3:10-18 -- they all make it abundantly clear that is true.

A far better question is "Why does God do good things for bad people?"

Romans 5, NASB
8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. ​

Sometimes bad things happen to people who seem undeserving of them. But God allows things to happen for His reasons, whether or not we understand them. Above all, however, we must remember that God is good, just, loving, and merciful. Often things happen to us that we simply cannot understand. However, instead of doubting God's goodness, our reaction should be to trust Him.

Proverbs 3
5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart
And do not lean on your own understanding.
6 In all your ways acknowledge Him,
And He will make your paths straight.​

 

[Hizikyah]

If I was an all powerful being who could end their suffering in an instant then i would do it.

Your god is capable of this but chooses not to

Proverbs 1:29-31, "Because they hated knowledge, and did not choose to give reverence to Yahweh! Since they would have none of my counsel, and despised all my rebuke and warning. They will eat the fruit of their own ways, and be completely idled with their own devices."

He does not need the world, the world needs Him...From the beginning of time man has rejected the perfect righteousness of the Most High, for He is perfect in love AND judgement, the "righteous" man can not award evil with blessings, how much more can the Creator not reward evil with blessings?

Would it be honest and true love to judge in an uneven matter?

Exodus 34:5-7, "Then Yahweh descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the Name of YAHWEH. Yahweh passed in front of him, and proclaimed: YAHWEH, YAHWEH Almighty, merciful and compassionate, longsuffering, and abounding in righteousness and truth. Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity, and transgression, and sin; but by no means leaving unpunished those who are guilty; Who visits the sin of the fathers upon the children and the children's children, to the third and fourth generation. (via DNA)"

He created us, He had it all planned from the beginning....

 

[Elin]

Mankind cannot fix that problem.

"The poor you will always have with you." (Mt 26:11)

Yes but we cant let that be a cop out.God tells us how to respond to the poor.If we dont their blood is on our hands.

Yes, the NT command of love is clear.

But it is a mistake to think the problem can be eradicated.

 

[maxwel]

How about a slightly different perspective.

It's true there is much suffering, and much poverty in the Philippines.
True.

There is also no abortion... they don't kill their own babies.
There is also no law against praying in school... Jesus is welcome everywhere.
There is also hunger for the gospel in many areas... instead of scoffing.

Hardships change people's hearts.

You would wish on them all the prosperity of America, with all of our scoffing, callousness, and hardened hearts?
You would wish them all to have so much prosperity they ignore God... like we do here?

Suffering is always sad, and always heartbreaking.
But surely God has purposes in it.