The Pope had no answer...do you?

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nogard

Senior Member
Aug 21, 2013
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#81
Mt 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest...........etc

there are two players in this (game !?) life God and the enemy

people chose religion ( anything other than Gods way ) and blame God !!??
the enemy is merciless cruel etc just look in the news and history..God creates the enemy destroys..and is using man in his attempts ( who is very eager to help and follow..)

yes time and chance do happen..he sends the rain on the just and the unjust..BUT WITH GOD there is always a way out..he will not let you be tempted etc greater than you can stand ..you the head not the tail..etc

let go of the enemy do it Gods way through Jesus Christ..acts 2 v 38..mark 16 v 16 +..rom 8 v 9 ..etc
Well see, that's the thing. I'm just trying to figure out who God is. Is God good? Is God just? Is he merciful? Is He someone who we should respect, worship, love? What I have come to find on here is that Christians don't really care if God is good or just or any of that. They of course believe that God is good and just, but it's one thing to believe it and another to seek out proof of it. I mean, you believe you're going to spend an eternity worshiping this being. Are you okay that this being lets children die by the thousands each day of hunger? Are you okay that this being sits by while little boys and girls get raped repeatedly while they cry out for help? Do you even care? Do you even care if God cares?

I mean, I think a lot of people are going to misunderstand this post, and I just don't know how else to word it. It just seems like no one really cares if the God they serve is actually a God that would be worthy of any kind of praise.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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#82
To understand suffering and hardship read the book of Job and the story of Joseph in Genesis (in prayer). Also, you have to think that those who are poor are more likely to receive the Kingdom of God than those who are rich, fat, and full of themselves. Many times when we go thru trials of suffering, or we go thru some type of painful situation, we learn something great from it spiritually. Also, we have to understand that this world is not God's Kingdom yet. This world is man's kingdom under the ultimate rule of the devil. For when Adam rebelled against God, the world fell into sin and corruption. However, there is a second Adam named Jesus Christ whereby thru Him, we can be a part of a new kingdom one day, where there will be no more pain, suffering, sorrow, death, disease, etc.

In addition, God is God because He knows the grand design and tapestry of life that you cannot see. Otherwise He wouldnt' be God. Atheists here who point out that God does not care about the children who suffer do not know the love of God and how he does care. God cares more for than just for our temporary needs that can lead us down the wrong path. God cares ultimately for our eternal and spiritual needs first. What are these needs? It is a relationship with God. For God knows what everyone needs for the best good to lead them into a relationship with Him. Each person is different. But God knows every single one of them. Some will never accept God no matter what. But that is their choice.

Also, when we help the poor (As believers), we are doing so unto God. We are showing our love for God. It is a selfless act in helping those who are in desperate need. This is what Jesus Christ did for us on the cross. Every man is in desperate need spiritually to be saved. Jesus (Who is God Almgihty in the flesh) died in our place so as to help us who were poor spiritually. We are to be like Christ and walk as He walked. Loving all others. For to love is to know God.
 
Last edited:
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
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#83
To understand suffering and hardship read the book of Job and the story of Joseph in Genesis (in prayer). Also, you have to think that those who are poor are more likely to receive the Kingdom of God than those who are rich, fat, and full of themselves. Many times when we go thru trials of suffering, or we go thru some type of painful situation, we learn something great from it spiritually. Also, we have to understand that this world is not God's Kingdom yet. This world is man's kingdom under the ultimate rule of the devil. For when Adam rebelled against God, the world fell into sin and corruption. However, there is a second Adam named Jesus Christ whereby thru Him, we can be a part of a new kingdom one day, where there will be no more pain, suffering, sorrow, death, disease, etc.

In addition, God is God because He knows the grand design and tapestry of life that you cannot see. Otherwise He wouldnt' be God. Atheists here who point out that God does not care about the children who suffer do not know the love of God and how he does care. God cares more for than just for our temporary needs that can lead us down the wrong path. God cares ultimately for our eternal and spiritual needs first. What are these needs? It is a relationship with God. For God knows what everyone needs for the best good to lead them into a relationship with Him. Each person is different. But God knows every single one of them. Some will never accept God no matter what. But that is their choice.

Also, when we help the poor (As believers), we are doing so unto God. We are showing our love for God. It is a selfless act in helping those who are in desperate need. This is what Jesus Christ did for us on the cross. Every man is in desperate need spiritually to be saved. Jesus (Who is God Almgihty in the flesh) died in our place so as to help us who were poor spiritually. We are to be like Christ and walk as He walked. Loving all others. For to love is to know God.
Furthermore, the Scriptures say that the suffering in this present time shall not compare to the glory that shall be revealed in us. In other words, the suffering in this life is but like a vapor; And things in God's Kingdom are going to so awesome that it will shine out any suffering that we went thru here.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
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#84
Its not a belief statement.

Your also mixed up with your phrasing. Not believing in god is not the same as believing in a godless universe.

Do you think that if you were born in the third world intead of the first world that you'd be the same person with the same privileges?
It looks like a belief statement to me... if you have evidence for it, please present it...

yes, the question I asked may be different from your position... though it sounds like your answer is 'no', because you don't believe in a godless universe... how about a similar question... does having a godless worldview give you joy?


If I were born in the third world I would probably have fewer privileges... would I have the same amount of joy? I think so... I don't see joy increasing with increasing technology or western ideas.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
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#85
Hey Dan, the problem here is that Christians aren't Deists. They don't believe that God set everything in motion and is now just sitting back and watching the show, not interfering at all with the happenings of this world. Christians believe in a personal God that interacts with his creation, even today. He answers prayers, performs miracles, intercedes on our behalf, enacts His will, etc. He's very active in this world according to Christians.

Why does this matter? Well the problem with the free will defense is that it acts as if God has His hands tied behind His back. If He wants us to TRULY have free will, then he must allow us to make bad choices, and those bad choices can cause suffering. If God were to alleviate suffering, then he'd be interfering with our free will. The problem here is that God already is interfering every time He answers a prayer, rescues someone from danger, enacts His will in the world, etc. If God is already saving some people from suffering, but not others, it kind of throws the whole free will defense out the window. Because it no longer becomes a matter of respecting free will, but rather a matter of selective interference.

Also, no one has really commented about God's selective interference, namely why Christians in America believe God is actively helping them with all these small, trivial things in their life while ignoring cries for help from people truly in need. And to be honest, after reading some of these responses, I'm not sure what I'm more concerned about - God's apparent lack of compassion for those who are suffering, or the lack of compassion from Christian's on this forum for those who are suffering.

And once again, for all those people saying it's our fault people are suffering and not God's fault, I would just like to remind you that whether we help or not, God is still actively choosing not help those in need. I already explained in an earlier post how it is a foolish notion to excuse God's inaction just because of our own inaction.

And to answer your last question Dan, I have plenty of ideas for how this world could be a lot better. But just to humor you, most Christians believe after the second coming and the rapture there will be a new heaven and a new earth where we will all live and there will be no more sorrow and no more pain. Now, in this future utopia, will our free will be gone? If not, then apparently God does know of a way for us to have both free will and live in peace. And He's God for crying out loud. He's omniscient, omnipotent. It's not hard to imagine a being like that having the ability to create a better situation than the one we are in.
[I'm interested in answering the parts of your post about God possibly dealing with trivial things while ignoring cries... but I don't want these posts to get too long... I don't think you responded to my last post to you on the previous thread. So, rather than spend a lot of time dealing with every part of your post now, it makes sense to me to just respond to one question at a time...]

Suppose we are both in a room, and we both have free will... you ask me to hand you a piano... I do... have I violated your free will? I don't think so... have I intervened in your life? yes... have I reduced your suffering? yes, because you didn't have to get up and get the piano yourself... have I reduced your suffering to zero? probably not...

So, I don't see a problem... I think it's a facinating subject, and maybe I missed something... looking forward to your response...
 

nogard

Senior Member
Aug 21, 2013
331
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#86
I'm sorry, I'm not following you on this. I'm not sure what you are exactly trying to prove with that analogy. You're going to have to be a little more clear on your point.
 
Nov 30, 2012
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#87
The Pope did have an answer. He hugged the girl. He showed compassion and empathy for her words. He didn't see words...he did not see an unanswerable question...he saw a young girl crying out in pain and hurt. Any Christian would have just hugged her and told her about God's love for her. That she is precious to God. Not out of inability to answer, but because the tears are more important than the question.
 
Mar 28, 2014
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#88
Well see, that's the thing. I'm just trying to figure out who God is. Is God good? Is God just? Is he merciful? Is He someone who we should respect, worship, love? What I have come to find on here is that Christians don't really care if God is good or just or any of that. They of course believe that God is good and just, but it's one thing to believe it and another to seek out proof of it. I mean, you believe you're going to spend an eternity worshiping this being. Are you okay that this being lets children die by the thousands each day of hunger? Are you okay that this being sits by while little boys and girls get raped repeatedly while they cry out for help? Do you even care? Do you even care if God cares?

I mean, I think a lot of people are going to misunderstand this post, and I just don't know how else to word it. It just seems like no one really cares if the God they serve is actually a God that would be worthy of any kind of praise.
You do not believe God.....you do not believe scripture...How do you expect to figure out who God is??? but you do blame God for sitting by while little boys and girls get raped repeatedly......why do I not hear you blame the people who do the actual raping...Have you never done wrong against anyone???....who do you blame for your actions...? if you broke a traffic light...do you go to the cops and say ..oh I broke the law ...I came to pay the fine...no you hope no one saw....and you get away scot free....well the rapists will not go and confess they raped....they will hope no one saw and they get away scot free....did you blame God for your actions?????...then why blame him for theirs??? ...and you will not believe me if I told you God cares...
 
Mar 28, 2014
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#89
Well see, that's the thing. I'm just trying to figure out who God is. Is God good? Is God just? Is he merciful? Is He someone who we should respect, worship, love? What I have come to find on here is that Christians don't really care if God is good or just or any of that. They of course believe that God is good and just, but it's one thing to believe it and another to seek out proof of it. I mean, you believe you're going to spend an eternity worshiping this being. Are you okay that this being lets children die by the thousands each day of hunger? Are you okay that this being sits by while little boys and girls get raped repeatedly while they cry out for help? Do you even care? Do you even care if God cares?

I mean, I think a lot of people are going to misunderstand this post, and I just don't know how else to word it. It just seems like no one really cares if the God they serve is actually a God that would be worthy of any kind of praise.
You do not believe God.....you do not believe scripture...How do you expect to figure out who God is??? but you do blame God for sitting by while little boys and girls get raped repeatedly......why do I not hear you blame the people who do the actual raping...Have you never done wrong against anyone???....who do you blame for your actions...? if you broke a traffic light...do you go to the cops and say ..oh I broke the law ...I came to pay the fine...no you hope no one saw....and you get away scot free....well the rapists will not go and confess they raped....they will hope no one saw and they get away scot free....did you blame God for your actions?????...then why blame him for theirs??? ...and you will not believe me if I told you God cares...
 
V

Viligant_Warrior

Guest
#90
The Pope did have an answer. He hugged the girl. He showed compassion and empathy for her words. He didn't see words...he did not see an unanswerable question...he saw a young girl crying out in pain and hurt. Any Christian would have just hugged her and told her about God's love for her. That she is precious to God. Not out of inability to answer, but because the tears are more important than the question.
He had a partial answer. Too bad he didn't take the opportunity to present the Gospel to her and those around her that they might believe. Oh, I'm sure they think they do believe, but if they kknow only, as you have said, of God's love, they don't have a clue about how much more He is than that.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
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#91
I'm sorry, I'm not following you on this. I'm not sure what you are exactly trying to prove with that analogy. You're going to have to be a little more clear on your point.
You wrote, "If God were to alleviate suffering, then he'd be interfering with our free will."
In the analogy I wrote, I think I alleviated some of your suffering, while not interfering with your free will... so, I don't see a problem with God being active in the world, and humans having free will. If you can show the problem, I'm interested... maybe I missed something...
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,069
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#92
Proverbs 29:2 - When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people mourn.
 
Mar 28, 2014
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#93
The Pope did have an answer. He hugged the girl. He showed compassion and empathy for her words. He didn't see words...he did not see an unanswerable question...he saw a young girl crying out in pain and hurt. Any Christian would have just hugged her and told her about God's love for her. That she is precious to God. Not out of inability to answer, but because the tears are more important than the question.
I don't see a hug answering anything...and what do you mean by compassion....a sorry looking face ...How does that help anyone...he saw a little girl crying out in pain and hurt for others like her ...what can you tell her about God's love.....She already heard about God's love.....she wants to see God's love in action ...that is why she is asking ...have you come on behalf of God???and what does she get...a hug and a sorry expression....come on bro...how can tears be more important than the question????
 
Nov 30, 2012
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#94
I don't see a hug answering anything...and what do you mean by compassion....a sorry looking face ...How does that help anyone...he saw a little girl crying out in pain and hurt for others like her ...what can you tell her about God's love.....She already heard about God's love.....she wants to see God's love in action ...that is why she is asking ...have you come on behalf of God???and what does she get...a hug and a sorry expression....come on bro...how can tears be more important than the question????
Because you forget the importance of a hug. You forget the simple sign of care and love and how powerful it is. Think of those who have not seen each other in years, that hug conveys far more than words. Also, think of when you finally stand before Christ Himself. That hug will end all sufferings and all fears. Because it is the intimacy of touch, and the reassurance of Love.

Hugs, holding someone's hand in the hospital, the handshake at Church all convey that Love is the answer to these questions. Tears are always more important than the question, because the question only communicates thought, the tears communicate the fact that a human being is hurting.
 
Sep 6, 2014
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#95
Because you forget the importance of a hug. You forget the simple sign of care and love and how powerful it is. Think of those who have not seen each other in years, that hug conveys far more than words. Also, think of when you finally stand before Christ Himself. That hug will end all sufferings and all fears. Because it is the intimacy of touch, and the reassurance of Love.

Hugs, holding someone's hand in the hospital, the handshake at Church all convey that Love is the answer to these questions. Tears are always more important than the question, because the question only communicates thought, the tears communicate the fact that a human being is hurting.
Nothing wrong with love and hugs brother but wouldn't it have been even better if Mr. Bergoglio broke off some of the Vatican gold to alleviate some of this poor child's burdens? (1 John 3:17). The Republic of the Philippines is a Catholic nation with Catholic leaders. Their policies have failed to protect women and children and have failed to provide basic care to most of the poor families living there. Those failed policies also reflect back on those that they take instructions from spiritually. Perhaps instead of weeping and hugging poor children that have been victimized by poor leadership in the Philippines...... Mr. Bergoglio should use his influence to bring about some major reforms through his position as leader of the RCC (church and state) and learn to show as much charity to the people of the Philippines as they have shown to the RCC.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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#96
Nothing wrong with love and hugs brother but wouldn't it have been even better if Mr. Bergoglio broke off some of the Vatican gold to alleviate some of this poor child's burdens? (1 John 3:17).
"I should do what?"



We all should!;

Psalm 82:3-4, "(You should) defend the weak and fatherless! (You should) maintain the rights of the poor and oppressed! (You should) rescue the poor and needy, and deliver them from the hands of the wicked."

James 1:27 , Religion that is pure and undefiled before Yah, the Father, is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world. "
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
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#97
Pope Francis said what about the redistribution of wealth and money?!





Pick out the Holy Father's statement to the UN from a list of seven texts
May 10, 2014 01:10 EST
Carl E. Olson
Pope Francis shakes hands with United Nations Secretary General Ban Ki-moon during a meeting at the Vatican May 9. (CNS photo/L'Osservatore Romano via EPA)

Perhaps you've already heard the news that Pope Francis is a socialist and a communist, a rumor that was finally established as truth in his address yesterday to the United Nations System Chief Executives Board for Coordination (or, as we usually call it in our family, the "UNSCEBFC"). Perhaps you've read the speech; perhaps you haven't.

Whatever the case, here's a fun little exercise: identify the pontiff's statement about redistribution from the following texts:

1) "The principle of solidarity, in a wide sense, must inspire the effective search for appropriate institutions and mechanisms, whether in the sector of trade, where the laws of healthy competition must be allowed to lead the way, or on the level of a wider and more immediate redistribution of riches and of control over them, in order that the economically developing peoples may be able not only to satisfy their essential needs but also to advance gradually and effectively."

2) "Peace, however, is not merely a gift to be received: it is also a task to be undertaken. In order to be true peacemakers, we must educate ourselves in compassion, solidarity, working together, fraternity, in being active within the community and concerned to raise awareness about national and international issues and the importance of seeking adequate mechanisms for the redistribution of wealth, the promotion of growth, cooperation for development and conflict resolution. “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God”, as Jesus says in the Sermon on the Mount (Mt 5:9)."

3) Every contract is a human matter, conducted by people and directed towards serving people. Only then will the market forces, set up, and periodically revised and diversified, be able to play their beneficial role: for they will function under the responsibility of individuals and peoples who are free, equal and linked by solidarity, and under the regulation of moral norms that are binding upon everybody. Healthy competition of this sort is in its turn conditioned by 'a wider and more immediate redistribution of riches and of control over them' ... . It is thus in this perspective that one must clarify and resolve the painful problem of the debts that weigh upon the poorer countries, the problem of common funds, the problem of a more adequate and more effective institutional framework of worldwide solidarity."

4) "In a climate of solidarity and mutual understanding, the Government is seeking to support initiatives that aim to encourage the fight against poverty and technological backwardness at both the national and international levels. On the other hand, the policy of the redistribution of domestic income has facilitated greater well-being among the population. In this regard, I hope that a better distribution of income will continue to be encouraged and that greater social justice for the good of the population will be reinforced."

5) "It should be remembered that the reduction of cultures to the technological dimension, even if it favours short-term profits, in the long term impedes reciprocal enrichment and the dynamics of cooperation. It is important to distinguish between short- and long-term economic or sociological considerations. Lowering the level of protection accorded to the rights of workers, or abandoning mechanisms of wealth redistribution in order to increase the country's international competitiveness, hinder the achievement of lasting development."

6) "The economic well-being of a country is not measured exclusively by the quantity of goods it produces but also by taking into account the manner in which they are produced and the level of equity in the distribution of income, which should allow everyone access to what is necessary for their personal development and perfection. An equitable distribution of income is to be sought on the basis of criteria not merely of commutative justice but also of social justice that is, considering, beyond the objective value of the work rendered, the human dignity of the subjects who perform it. Authentic economic well-being is pursued also by means of suitable social policies for the redistribution of income which, taking general conditions into account, look at merit as well as at the need of each citizen."

7) "Public spending is directed to the common good when certain fundamental principles are observed: the payment of taxes as part of the duty of solidarity; a reasonable and fair application of taxes; precision and integrity in administering and distributing public resources. In the redistribution of resources, public spending must observe the principles of solidarity, equality and making use of talents. It must also pay greater attention to families, designating an adequate amount of resources for this purpose."

If you guessed "None of the above", you are correct. Those seven quotes are from the following sources:

1. St. John Paul II, Redemptor hominis (1979)
2. Benedict XVI, "Celebration of the World Day of Peace" (2012)
3. St. John Paul II, "Message to Mr Gamani Corea, Secretary-General of the UN Conference on Trade and Development" (1979)
4. Benedict XVI, "Address to H.E. Mr. Luiz Felipe de Seixas Correa, Ambassador of the Federative Republic of Brazil to the Holy See" (2009)
5. Benedict XVI, "Caritas in veritate" (2009)
6. Compendium of the Social Doctrine of the Church, par. 303
7. Compendium of the Social Doctrine of the Church, par. 355

Why?

Revelation 13:7
It was given power to wage war against Yah's holy people and to conquer them. And it was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation





 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
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#98
What "Catholic" Means | Catholic Answers

What "Catholic" Means;

The Greek roots of the term "Catholic" mean "according to (kata-) the whole (holos)," or more colloquially, "universal."



this is the pic I was looking for the whole time....
 
Mar 28, 2014
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#99
Because you forget the importance of a hug. You forget the simple sign of care and love and how powerful it is. Think of those who have not seen each other in years, that hug conveys far more than words. Also, think of when you finally stand before Christ Himself. That hug will end all sufferings and all fears. Because it is the intimacy of touch, and the reassurance of Love.

Hugs, holding someone's hand in the hospital, the handshake at Church all convey that Love is the answer to these questions. Tears are always more important than the question, because the question only communicates thought, the tears communicate the fact that a human being is hurting.
what makes you say I forgot....I doubt that girl was in need a hug...and I am certain that hug satisfied none of her needs

bro there is a time and place for a band aid and a time and place for surgery....you do not give a man in need of a surgery a band aid....
 
V

Viligant_Warrior

Guest
Because you forget the importance of a hug. You forget the simple sign of care and love and how powerful it is.
Then let's all go hug the hungry, naked, homeless, thirsty, sick and imprisoned. I'm sure they'll all feel better, and then we can -- as did the pope -- move on to the next event on our itinerary. roll-eye-smiley.gif