The Purpose of Baptism

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resurrection33

resurrection33

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notuptome said:
1Co 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Not exactly related to baptism.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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Yes, we seem to be going off in several different directions in this thread, and you have introduced a new one here - the temptation to sin. My original purpose was to suggest to people that perhaps water baptism isn't a necessity for salvation but is rather to call our attention to the Lord's saving grace. Maybe the Lord is using a little psychology on us.
 
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lastofall

Senior Member
#42
Aug 26, 2014
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[for me anyway] water baptism is the symbolic gesture of cleansing which is an indication of our intent to actually repent and own our sins: as for baptism of the Holy Ghost it is when "In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory." (Ephesians 1:13-14)

Earnest is the point which means first fruits or that which is in advance.
 
resurrection33

resurrection33

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eternally-gratefull said:
I KNOW i will spend it in heaven. Because it is based on Gods work, Gods promise And Gods guarantee (spirit Eph)

If I do not KNOW IT. I have no faith in God. My faith is dead, and I am but a pitiful man who must work hard and pray he makes it. with no hope or assurance I ever will (ie, I am not saved at all)
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Anyone who understands that God is a loving Father spends little time worrying about eternal condemnation, I don't think.
 
hornetguy

hornetguy

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#44
Jan 18, 2016
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resurrection33 said:
Do we need a water baptism to be saved?
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I believe it is a requirement. Scripture shows us that.

That's why I say it is part of the salvation process. God offers us salvation for free, just as He offered Abraham and all his offspring salvation. Their part of that covenant was the act of circumcision, showing the world that they had accepted the free gift.

Baptism is the same thing to a Christian.

If Abraham had said, "I'll accept the salvation Lord, but I think I'll just skip out on that whole circumcision thing, ok?" Would God have honored His side of the covenant if Abraham did not honor HIS side of it? I think not.
 
resurrection33

resurrection33

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#45
Dec 19, 2009
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#45
hornetguy said:
I believe it is a requirement. Scripture shows us that.

That's why I say it is part of the salvation process. God offers us salvation for free, just as He offered Abraham and all his offspring salvation. Their part of that covenant was the act of circumcision, showing the world that they had accepted the free gift.

Baptism is the same thing to a Christian.

If Abraham had said, "I'll accept the salvation Lord, but I think I'll just skip out on that whole circumcision thing, ok?" Would God have honored His side of the covenant if Abraham did not honor HIS side of it? I think not.
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I suspect there are people in the world who don't know what water baptism is. What happens to them?
 
notuptome

notuptome

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#46
May 17, 2013
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#46
hornetguy said:
I believe it is a requirement. Scripture shows us that.

That's why I say it is part of the salvation process. God offers us salvation for free, just as He offered Abraham and all his offspring salvation. Their part of that covenant was the act of circumcision, showing the world that they had accepted the free gift.

Baptism is the same thing to a Christian.

If Abraham had said, "I'll accept the salvation Lord, but I think I'll just skip out on that whole circumcision thing, ok?" Would God have honored His side of the covenant if Abraham did not honor HIS side of it? I think not.
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Circumcision did not save Abraham. Believing God was counted unto him for righteousness sake.

Water baptism is a sacrament for the believer just like communion. We are not more or less saved if we receive or receive not.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#47
#47
resurrection33 said:
Anyone who understands that God is a loving Father spends little time worrying about eternal condemnation, I don't think.
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I would not think so either, But then again, All the people who say we must work to earn salvation. WHat else could they be thinking of, To me they have not entered Gods rest.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#48
#48
hornetguy said:
I believe it is a requirement. Scripture shows us that.

That's why I say it is part of the salvation process. God offers us salvation for free, just as He offered Abraham and all his offspring salvation. Their part of that covenant was the act of circumcision, showing the world that they had accepted the free gift.

Baptism is the same thing to a Christian.

If Abraham had said, "I'll accept the salvation Lord, but I think I'll just skip out on that whole circumcision thing, ok?" Would God have honored His side of the covenant if Abraham did not honor HIS side of it? I think not.
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If this is true (in my view) then we are not saved by grace, but by works, Water baptism being the work.

Please note, Physical circumcision never saved anyone, We are circumcised by the hand of God, water baptism is just another ritual to teach of that spiritual washing, or baptism.
 
hornetguy

hornetguy

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#49
Jan 18, 2016
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#49
resurrection33 said:
I suspect there are people in the world who don't know what water baptism is. What happens to them?
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I don't know. That is above my pay grade.

I do know that God is a loving father that wants all people to be saved, and that is totally up to Him.

We are responsible for our own selves, and will be "judged" as to how we respond to what we know and understand. If we know something is right, or wrong, and choose to do/not do it, that is on us.

It's the same as accepting, or NOT accepting Jesus as our savior. We have the choice to do it, or not. If scripture tells us to be baptized, and we refuse, what does that say about our acceptance of the gift?
 
hornetguy

hornetguy

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#50
Jan 18, 2016
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#50
Please note, Physical circumcision never saved anyone, We are circumcised by the hand of God, water baptism is just another ritual to teach of that spiritual washing, or baptism.
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You are correct, circumcision did not "save" anyone. But, if a Hebrew REFUSED to follow God's will and be circumcised, would he still be a part of the covenant? If it doesn't matter, why do it at all? I mean, cutting off your foreskin? That cannot be pleasant .... but God required it.
 
resurrection33

resurrection33

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#51
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eternally-gratefull said:
I would not think so either, But then again, All the people who say we must work to earn salvation. WHat else could they be thinking of, To me they have not entered Gods rest.
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I have found that life goes much better when I obey the Lord's commandments.
 
resurrection33

resurrection33

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#52
Dec 19, 2009
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#52
hornetguy said:
I don't know. That is above my pay grade.

I do know that God is a loving father that wants all people to be saved, and that is totally up to Him.

We are responsible for our own selves, and will be "judged" as to how we respond to what we know and understand. If we know something is right, or wrong, and choose to do/not do it, that is on us.

It's the same as accepting, or NOT accepting Jesus as our savior. We have the choice to do it, or not. If scripture tells us to be baptized, and we refuse, what does that say about our acceptance of the gift?
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What is your pay grade?
 
Magenta

Magenta

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#53
Jul 3, 2015
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#53
Baptism is not necessary for salvation. Baptism does not save from sin but from a bad conscience. In 1 Peter 3:21, Peter clearly taught that baptism was not a ceremonial act of physical purification, but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. Baptism is the symbol of what has already occurred in the heart and life of one who has trusted Christ as Savior (Romans 6:3-5; Galatians 3:27; Colossians 2:12). Baptism is an important step of obedience that every Christian should take. Water baptism cannot be a requirement for salvation. To make it such is an attack on the sufficiency of the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. https://www.gotquestions.org/baptism-salvation.html
 
Magenta

Magenta

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#54
Jul 3, 2015
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#54
resurrection33 said:
What is the purpose of baptism?
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In Matthew 3:11, John the Baptist mentions the purpose of his baptisms: “I baptize you with water for repentance.” Paul affirms this in Acts 19:4: “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” John’s baptism had to do with repentance—it was a symbolic representation of changing one’s mind and going a new direction. “Confessing their sins, they were baptized by him in the Jordan River” (Matthew 3:6). Being baptized by John demonstrated a recognition of one’s sin, a desire for spiritual cleansing, and a commitment to follow God’s law in anticipation of the Messiah’s arrival.

Christian baptism today also symbolizes repentance, cleansing, and commitment, but Jesus has given it a different emphasis. Christian baptism is a mark of one’s identification with the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. It is representative of a cleansing that is complete and a commitment that is the natural response of one who has been made new. Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross completely washes away our sins, and we are raised to new life empowered by the Holy Spirit (2 Corinthians 5:17–21; Romans 6:1–11). With John’s baptism, a person repented of sin and was therefore ready to place his faith in Jesus Christ. John’s baptism foreshadowed what Jesus would accomplish, much as the Old Testament sacrificial system did.https://www.gotquestions.org/baptism-of-John.html
 
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eternally-gratefull

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#55
#55
resurrection33 said:
I have found that life goes much better when I obey the Lord's commandments.
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me too.

But if your not saved, You may have a blessed life, But you will have hell for eternity.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#56
#56
hornetguy said:
You are correct, circumcision did not "save" anyone. But, if a Hebrew REFUSED to follow God's will and be circumcised, would he still be a part of the covenant? If it doesn't matter, why do it at all? I mean, cutting off your foreskin? That cannot be pleasant .... but God required it.
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Then in my view again, they were saved by works period.

What makes baptism greater than assembling together, Making disciples, Learning the word etc etc?

nothing,, If one refuses to be baptized, I would question their faith, Not say you must be baptized to be saved. I can claim I have faith all day long, but what good is it if my CLAIMED faith is not real?
 
hornetguy

hornetguy

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#58
Jan 18, 2016
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#58
eternally-gratefull said:
Then in my view again, they were saved by works period.

What makes baptism greater than assembling together, Making disciples, Learning the word etc etc?

nothing,, If one refuses to be baptized, I would question their faith, Not say you must be baptized to be saved. I can claim I have faith all day long, but what good is it if my CLAIMED faith is not real?
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So... you never answered my question as to the person that willfully refuses to obey that "command" .... to be baptized, or in the case of the Hebrews, refuse to be circumcised?
 
notuptome

notuptome

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#59
May 17, 2013
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#59
hornetguy said:
So... you never answered my question as to the person that willfully refuses to obey that "command" .... to be baptized, or in the case of the Hebrews, refuse to be circumcised?
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What happens when a believer refuses to obey the Lord in anything that he knows he should do?

Jas 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Sin interferes with fellowship with the Lord.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#60
#60
hornetguy said:
So... you never answered my question as to the person that willfully refuses to obey that "command" .... to be baptized, or in the case of the Hebrews, refuse to be circumcised?
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I did, I said i would question there faith. Not think they have to be baptized first.

How can you claim you have LIVING faith in Jesus, and fail to do his first command. in my view, A person is not saved AFTER they get baptized, they are SAVED before. obedience to God is a out put of true saving faith.

Abraham was saved the moment he had faith, He was circumcised and did all the other work after. Most Jews were circumcised on the 8th day, Before they had any ability to have faith. So i do not understand how we relate this to baptism. and or salvation. If this is true, when I had my children baptised to dedicate them to God they were saved. And I do not think you would say yes, nor would I.
 
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