The purpose of Christ

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
E

Elin

Banned
#222
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
#222
peacefulbeliever said:
. . . he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son = conformed - Rom. 8:29 - summorphos -[adj] (4832) akin to summorphizo (v), signifies "having the same form as another, conformed to"; (a) of the "conformity" of children of God "to the image of His Son," (b) of their future physical "conformity" to His body of glory (Phil. 3:21) . . .

be NOT conformed to this world - syschematizo (4964) to conform one's self (i.e., one's mind and character) to another's pattern, (fashion one's self according to) . . . We are not to have the character of the world and that is our natural tendency so we have to renew our minds - (anakainosis - a renewal, renovation, complete change for the better) so that the character of that new creation within us is displayed in our life.

Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus. . . .Don't know about any of you guys but man, that takes a lot of renewing for me!!!
Click to expand...
Yep. . .and if God himself didn't do it (Php 1:6), it wouldn't happen.
 
just-me

just-me

Banned
#225
Mar 4, 2013
7,761
107
0
#225
oldthennew said:
elin,

if you don't know who your brothers or sisters are, then may God have mercy upon you.
Click to expand...
She may not want to trust anybody. Theres something to be said about this verse, but there are numerous motives from numerous people.
"Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help." Psalm 146:3

Elin don't like us to quote Psalm either. Nevertheless, I think it's really good to quote David and others who contributed to the Psalms.
 
E

Elin

Banned
#226
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
#226
just-me said:
Matthew 26:6-12
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Now when Jesus was in Bethany, in the house of Simon the leper,
[SUP]7 [/SUP]There came unto him a woman having an alabaster box of very precious ointment, and poured it on his head, as he sat at meat.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But when his disciples saw it, they had indignation, saying, To "what purpose" is this waste?
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For this ointment might have been sold for much, and given to the poor.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]When Jesus understood it, he said unto them, Why trouble ye the woman? for she hath wrought a good work upon me.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For ye have the poor always with you; but me ye have not always.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]For in that she hath poured this ointment on my body, she did it for my burial.
Click to expand...
Yep. . . . . . .
 
E

Elin

Banned
#228
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
#228
just-me said:
She may not want to trust anybody. Theres something to be said about this verse, but there are numerous motives from numerous people.
"Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help." Psalm 146:3

Elin don't like us to quote Psalm either.
Click to expand...
No more than you don't. . .don't blame it all on me!

Nevertheless, I think it's really good to quote David and others who contributed to the Psalms.
Click to expand...
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#229
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,189
113
#229
Biblelogic01 said:
A lot of people don't realize that when Yeshua says He's the living word, a lot of people do not really puts into context that the only word at that time was the Torah and the prophets, so 1+1=2; if Yeshua is the living word, He is the living Torah.
Click to expand...
There is a great big giant difference between a living "Torah" and the written Torah.

2 Corinthians 3:5-8
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
[SUP]8 [/SUP]How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#230
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,189
113
#230
Biblelogic01 said:
We're saying following Torah is not wrong to do. At least I'm stating that, and I will defend the fact that Torah is not wrong to follow. We're also stating that we do not believe the Torah is voided and obsolete, but along with that we still have not once stated that the Torah is salvation, we've stated repeatedly that Yeshua is the way to salvation.

When you come across and say, "it's not a means of salvation." to someone who's already stated that, then that person (such as myself) is going to take that as you are saying that I'm following it as a means of salvation when I'm not.
Click to expand...
The bible says once you come to Christ you are not to go back to your works at the law.

Galatians 3:10-12
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

Going back to Torah is going back to the curse. The Torah is not of faith, it is of works, and the man that doeth them shall live in them.

A lot of people say that Torah is not for salvation. Then they say they do it for obedience. They are confused. Going against what the bible says in Galatians.
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#231
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,189
113
#231
Biblelogic01 said:
So if sin is lawlessness (stated in the NT), and if we walk in the Spirit we would be walking in lawlessness, which means the Spirit would guide in walking in the law, not under the law, but in. again 1+1=2
Click to expand...
Your math isn't working right.

Try again.
 
peacefulbeliever

peacefulbeliever

Senior Member
#233
Feb 21, 2012
3,794
199
63
#233
Elin said:
Yes, by the Holy Spirit through the study of his word, prayer, worship and obedience.
Click to expand...
This sounds like we do it - And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable will of God. Rom. 12:2

That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; And be renewed in the spirit of your mind [the issues that result from the operation of man's mind such as acts of will, thoughts, desires, emotions]; And that you put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Eph. 4:22-24 . . . We put off the old man and put on the new man by renewing our minds.

Lie not one to another, seeing that you have put off the old man with his deeds; And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: Col. 3:9,10 . . . . Our mind is renewed to the extent that the word dwells in us so that the holy Spirit can bring it to our remembrance.

Casting down imaginations and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ. 2 Cor. 10:5 - a process of renewing the mind!

God does this: For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish [is dying], yet the inward man is renewed day by day. 2 Cor. 4:16

And this: Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, andthe renewing of the holy Spirit; Titus 3:5
 
E

Elin

Banned
#234
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
#234
Grandpa said:
The bible says once you come to Christ you are not to go back to your works at the law.

Galatians 3:10-12
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

Going back to Torah is going back to the curse. The Torah is not of faith, it is of works, and the man that doeth them shall live in them.

A lot of people say that Torah is not for salvation. Then they say they do it for obedience. They are confused. Going against what the bible says in Galatians.
Click to expand...
All the Mosaic regulations?

Nope. . .
 
E

Elin

Banned
#235
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
#235
peacefulbeliever said:
This sounds like we do it - And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable will of God. Rom. 12:2

That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; And be renewed in the spirit of your mind [the issues that result from the operation of man's mind such as acts of will, thoughts, desires, emotions]; And that you put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Eph. 4:22-24 . . . We put off the old man and put on the new man by renewing our minds.

Lie not one to another, seeing that you have put off the old man with his deeds; And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: Col. 3:9,10 . . . . Our mind is renewed to the extent that the word dwells in us so that the holy Spirit can bring it to our remembrance.

Casting down imaginations and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ. 2 Cor. 10:5 - a process of renewing the mind!

God does this: For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish [is dying], yet the inward man is renewed day by day. 2 Cor. 4:16

And this: Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, andthe renewing of the holy Spirit; Titus 3:5
Click to expand...
Yes, all sanctification by the Holy Spirit is through our obedience in the power of the Holy Spirit to the NT commands.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#236
Jul 31, 2013
36,681
13,138
113
#236
thank you!

((thank Him!))

just-me said:
Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee. Psalm 122:6
Click to expand...
[video=youtube;HV5zkuV4RnY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HV5zkuV4RnY[/video]
 
peacefulbeliever

peacefulbeliever

Senior Member
#237
Feb 21, 2012
3,794
199
63
#237
Elin said:
Yes, all sanctification by the Holy Spirit is through our obedience in the power of the Holy Spirit to the NT commands.
Click to expand...
????? - Are we or are we not responsible for renewing our minds? That's all I was getting at . . . :) But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption - 1 Cor. 1:30 - This says I am already sanctified . . . if I am made wise and I am righteous and I am redeemed then in the context I am also sanctified. Just the way I see it.

 
O

oldthennew

Guest
#238
#238
peacefulbeliever,

what a precious child of our Father you are - believe His words and not those of a mocker -
He will never use false/mocking words and mock a truth of His own making, trusting in Him is our only absolute truth.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
E

Elin

Banned
#239
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
#239
peacefulbeliever said:
????? - Are we or are we not responsible for renewing our minds?
That's all I was getting at . . . :)
But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption - 1 Cor. 1:30 - This says I am already sanctified . . . if I am made wise and I am righteous and I am redeemed then in the context I am also sanctified. Just the way I see it.
Click to expand...
I'm not understanding where I am being confusing.

Sanctification -- as the process of holiness, of being transformed into the image of Christ--"be ye transformed"

a process that involves obedience to the NT commands, including the command
to renew our minds--"by the renewing of your mind."

All our obedience is through and by the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit.
The unregenerate man cannot obey these commands.

Does that help clear up my confusing it?

Or are you saying sanctification is not a process but a completed action when one comes to saving faith?
 
Last edited:
E

Elin

Banned
#240
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
#240
oldthennew said:
peacefulbeliever,

what a precious child of our Father you are - believe His words and not those of a mocker -
He will never use false/mocking words and mock a truth of His own making, trusting in Him is our only absolute truth.
Click to expand...
Agreed. . .
 
You must log in or register to reply here.