The Rapture Is here:]

[PlainWord]

Dear fellow Christians. I have studied this issue for over 20 years (My dad was a Baptist minister) and was taught as a young child through my 20s of the Pre Trib Rapture. So, the Pre-Trib belief was my view until recently. However, through careful reading of the Word and research into the man who is responsible for developing the theory, John Darby in 1830, I have concluded that the Pre Trib Rapture is FALSE and likely the work of SATAN as a means for; (1) causing Christians to fight, (2) not to prepare for the tribulation itself – not to watch as we are commanded to do, (3) to destroy the credibility of the church once the Trib starts and the church is still here, and (4) to bring about the falling away of the church - causing son to rises up against father, brother against brother etc as it is written, during the end times. That's right; this false doctrine is very dangerous. It will cause Christians to lose their faith, turn away from the Lord and even rat out their fellow believers to be persecuted and killed during the Tribulation.

There is only ONE SECOND COMING and it is at the end of the age (After the Tribulation). There isn't one verse that clearly places the second coming BEFORE THE Tribulation, NOT ONE!! There isn't even a verse that clearly puts the church in heaven during the Great Tribulation. All "Rapture" verses either are silent about the timing or place it at the END of the Tribulation. Those who blindly believe the majority of the pre-trib teachings of most churches today have forgot to FOLLOW THE CLEAR READING OF THE WORD and Not to rely on man's interpretations or inferences. That said I don't fault any believer for buying this FALSE belief as it has been so extensively taught. But I do encourage all to read the scriptures carefully, clearly and see for themselves.

The Bible is so clear about the second coming of the Lord that I find it shocking that so many believers have been deceived including many great men of God. If there was a Rapture before the Tribulation, don't you think Jesus would have mentioned it during His Olivet Discourse? Pre-Tribbers try to tell us that Jesus was talking to the Jews in Mat 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21, therefore he left out the rapture and instead focused on the Day of the Lord which Jesus clearly puts at the end of the Tribulation. Pre-tribbers try to explain this as Jesus warning the future, newly believing Christians who convert during the Rapture. Pre-tribbers always use that argument for any mention of believers being on the earth during those days. But, Jesus wasn't asked by unbelieving Jews. He was asked by believing Jews, his own disciples. Therefore JESUS would have told them not to worry and not to fear if there was a rapture. Instead we have Him telling them that they will face Tribulation and warning those in Judea where and when to flee. 11 of his 12 disciples were killed for their faith so why should we expect better treatment when the Lord commands us to, "take up our cross and follow Him" and that, "we will be hated by all Nations, etc?"

Paul couldn’t be clearer in 2 Thessalonians, “Now brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that DAY will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition (ANTI-CHRIST), who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God…”

Paul isn't describing a second GATHERING!!! He is describing the only gathering. We are gathered to the Lord in the clouds, given glorified bodies and return to earth to reign with him for 1,000 years.

Read also Romans 11 where Paul discusses in depth the grafting of the Church into the wild olive tree (Believing State of Israel). God does NOT have separate plans for the church and Israel. God will unite His faithful, not treat them as two groups. The non believing Jews are ripped out and the believing Gentiles are grafted in their place. Then the remnant of the Jews who believe will be grafted back in and we all become the Bride of the Lamb. That is the clear teaching here. We join the Jews as God's people, not the other way around. Jesus himself teaches this.

Consider also John 6 where Jesus talks of the last day 4 different times in this Chapter. He has the judgment and the dead and Christ being resurrected on the same “last” day. This is impossible if there was a pre trib rapture, see 1 Thes 4:15. Consider also that Rev 7:9 puts a multitude FROM THE GREAT TRIBULATION in heaven after the 6th seal. These are NOT recently converted Christians killed by the Anti-Christ. The Anti-Christ hasn't even been revealed at this point in Revelation. The Sixth Seal is a mass death event and it will kill untold hundreds of millions. That's why there are in heaven coming "OUT" of the Tribulation, because all Alive Christians were on earth at the time of the 6th seal and killed at the clear start of the Tribulation. (The previous 5 seals were part of the “days of sorrows” more on that later).

Consider also that the Lord's Day is also when He will receive glory. Doesn't everyone think that if Jesus came before the Rapture in the way it is described that everyone would know about it and immediately believe, as they do when He really comes? So why then would there be a falling away first BEFORE the Anti-Christ is revealed? If there was a Pre-trib Rapture with all the glory surrounding it, I would think there would be a HUGE revival, not a falling away.

There is a lot more I could say if I had space but let’s be clear, Jesus would have clearly taught a Pre Trib Rapture if there was one. Pre-tribbers contort the Word to support their view while the clear reading of the Bible supports ONE SECOND COMING, ONE RAPTURE, and ONE DAY OF THE LORD. This relatively new theory is flat out wrong.

 

[PlainWord]

It is important for Christians to reject the notion of a Pre-Trib Rapture. This relatively new theory (Advanced by John Darby in 1830) is not scriptural and I believe is of Satan. The 1800s were full of propagation of false religions and doctrines. The Mormons, the Jehovah's Witness, the 7th Day Adventists, Christian Science and of course Darwinism, all got their birth in the 1800s. Darby himself also believed in Predestination and many of his day believed he was a cultist. Yet, the modern church embraced the Pre-Trib Rapture theory as fact when the Classical view of a Post Trib single 2nd Coming of the Lord was the view held by the Christ's own disciples and the early church and most churches for over 1800 years.

Satan knows the end is near and is doing everything possible to take as many down with him as he can. The Pre-Trib Rapture theory will cause so many Christians to lose faith when the Rapture comes suddenly and in a BIG Way with the opening of the 6th Seal. Millions will be killed and are seen in heaven immediately following the sealing of the 144,000 (Rev 7).


There isn't one passage in the Bible that has Jesus coming back twice. Not one. All of the "Rapture" passages either place the Lords coming AFTER the Tribulation or is silent as to its timing. There isn't one passage that puts the Lord's coming before the Tribulation or specifically states that the Church will avoid the Tribulation. In fact there isn't any passage that has the church in heaven during the Tribulation. The plain reading of the Bible teaches conclusively that there is no pre-trib rapture. 2 Thes 2:1-4 is crystal clear as is the Olivet Discourse.

So please, fellow believers, do not blindly follow this false doctrine which has been and is being taught by some of the most respected men of God in our day. It is a flat out lie and is of Satan - the great deceiver.

 

[Michael50]

Every doctrine of the 7th day Adentists is Bible based. I ask you, to please tell me, exactly what it is that Satan is teaching me that is a lie?

I look forward to your reply. I will surely respond to each of your lies that you cast forth.

 

[enoch1nine]

No pre trib beam up. And the flight to the mountains is to follow Christ and love your enemies and stop doing bad things. It's not running away or getting beamed up. "Eat no bread upon the mountain"

And David said to him, Canst thou bring me down to this company? And he said, Swear unto me by God, that thou wilt neither kill me, nor deliver me into the hands of my master, and I will bring thee down to this company. [SUP]16 [/SUP]And when he had brought him down, behold, they were spread abroad upon all the earth, eating and drinking, and dancing, because of all the great spoil that they had taken out of the land of the Philistines, and out of the land of Judah.

[SUP]17 [/SUP]And David smote them from the twilight even unto the evening of the next day: and there escaped not a man of them, save four hundred young men, which rode upon camels, and fled.

[SUP]18 [/SUP]And David recovered all that the Amalekites had carried away: and David rescued his two wives.

[SUP]19 [/SUP]And there was nothing lacking to them, neither small nor great, neither sons nor daughters, neither spoil, nor any thing that they had taken to them: David recovered all.

 

[just-us-2]

There is an event at the last trumpet In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible etc etc.


But there is NO event in the Bible were Jesus comes BEFOR the tribulation.

But you can squeeeeeeeze some verses to make it sound like there is a pre-trib coming if you like,

but there is NO event in the Bible were Jesus comes before the tribulation.

It’s just strong delusion

There are 7 trumpets in Revelation, the last one being Rev. 11:15-19. That's the last trump, like in 1 Cor. 15:52. Seven trumpeters at the battle of Jericho, 7 times around, and the last day, 7 blasts on the trumpet....and that was the last of Jericho. The math isn't hard.

 

[PlainWord]

Every doctrine of the 7th day Adentists is Bible based. I ask you, to please tell me, exactly what it is that Satan is teaching me that is a lie?

I look forward to your reply. I will surely respond to each of your lies that you cast forth.

My purpose on here is NOT to pick fights with other Christians or to attack various denominations over OTHER doctrinal differences. I do think SDA believe in several things which are not biblical and by biblical, I mean from the King James or New King James version. I personally use the NKJV. My eyes were opened to the lie of the Pre-Trib Rapture teaching. My goal is to hopefully persuade as many Christians as possible that this is a false doctrine and a most dangerous and deadly one, almost as dangerous as the evolution theory.

If you would like to debate the biblical basis for pre-trib vs. post-trib rapture, then I would be happy to debate you out of love in Christ.

 

[PlainWord]

There are 7 trumpets in Revelation, the last one being Rev. 11:15-19. That's the last trump, like in 1 Cor. 15:52. Seven trumpeters at the battle of Jericho, 7 times around, and the last day, 7 blasts on the trumpet....and that was the last of Jericho. The math isn't hard.

I can accept that reasoning and have also held to that view for long periods of time. However, if the Day of the Lord is the last day (John 6:40), which is what I believe, then why are there still 7 bowls to be poured out? One theory I've heard is that after the first trumpet and first bowl, the other trumpets and bowls align together and have a cause and effect relationship. If that means as each trumpet sounds, a bowl is being poured then the timing of the Day of the Lord being at the last trump works.

 

[Michael50]

My purpose on here is NOT to pick fights with other Christians or to attack various denominations over OTHER doctrinal differences. I do think SDA believe in several things which are not biblical and by biblical, I mean from the King James or New King James version. I personally use the NKJV. My eyes were opened to the lie of the Pre-Trib Rapture teaching. My goal is to hopefully persuade as many Christians as possible that this is a false doctrine and a most dangerous and deadly one, almost as dangerous as the evolution theory.

If you would like to debate the biblical basis for pre-trib vs. post-trib rapture, then I would be happy to debate you out of love in Christ.

The 7th Day Adventist does NOT teach any Pre-trib rapture. So, that is your first erroneous claim. By the way,, I'm using a nkjv, but I have several Bibles.

So,, if you believe that the 7th Day Adventists teach that christians will suddenly disappear in some secret rapture, you are wrong. We believe the church (saints) will be here right up til the Appearance of Jesus in the Air. At which time, the rightous dead will be raised from their graves and they along with the Rightous saints who are alive will meet Jesus in the Air. The wicked dead, remain in their graves. The wicked living are killed by the Brightness of the Appearance of Jesus.

So, please dont attach a false doctrine to the 7th Day Adventists. If you ever wish to talk about the doctrine i call the truth, feel free to ask me.

 

[PlainWord]

The 7th Day Adventist does NOT teach any Pre-trib rapture. So, that is your first erroneous claim. By the way,, I'm using a nkjv, but I have several Bibles.

So,, if you believe that the 7th Day Adventists teach that christians will suddenly disappear in some secret rapture, you are wrong. We believe the church (saints) will be here right up til the Appearance of Jesus in the Air. At which time, the rightous dead will be raised from their graves and they along with the Rightous saints who are alive will meet Jesus in the Air. The wicked dead, remain in their graves. The wicked living are killed by the Brightness of the Appearance of Jesus.

So, please dont attach a false doctrine to the 7th Day Adventists. If you ever wish to talk about the doctrine i call the truth, feel free to ask me.

Dear Michael, it is encouraging to hear that the SDA church has changed their belief re the Rapture because I was led to believe that your founder, Miller, taught that the Rapture would occur in 1844 and some 10,000 people sold their possessions and went to a hill somewhere to wait. I was further lead to believe that the SDA teaches that it is the only true church and remnant church. So, perhaps I am mistaken. In any event, like I said, I am not here to debate the strength or weaknesses of various doctrinal views. I am here to discuss the end times and/or the false Pre-Trib Rapture belief. I believe many will be saved from many different denominations based on their belief in Christ and what he did on the cross and their repentance of sins.

FYI, according to Wikipedia, the SDA do teach an imminent second coming, see below which I cut and pasted.

The Seventh-day Adventist Church[SUP][2][/SUP][SUP][3][/SUP] is a Protestant Christian[SUP][4][/SUP] denomination distinguished by its observance of Saturday,[SUP][5][/SUP] the original seventh day of the Judeo-Christian week, as the Sabbath, and by its emphasis on the imminent second coming (advent) of Jesus Christ. The denomination grew out of the Millerite movement in the United States during the middle part of the 19th century and was formally established in 1863.[SUP][6][/SUP] Among its founders was Ellen G. White, whose extensive writings are still held in high regard by the church today.[SUP][7][/SUP]
Much of the theology of the Seventh-day Adventist Church corresponds to Protestant Christian teachings such as the Trinity and the infallibility of Scripture. Distinctive teachings include the unconscious state of the dead and the doctrine of an investigative judgment. The church is also known for its emphasis on diet and health, its holistic understanding of the person, its promotion of religious liberty, and its conservative principles and lifestyle.[SUP][8][/SUP]

 

[Michael50]

Dear Michael, it is encouraging to hear that the SDA church has changed their belief re the Rapture because I was led to believe that your founder, Miller, taught that the Rapture would occur in 1844 and some 10,000 people sold their possessions and went to a hill somewhere to wait. I was further lead to believe that the SDA teaches that it is the only true church and remnant church. So, perhaps I am mistaken. In any event, like I said, I am not here to debate the strength or weaknesses of various doctrinal views. I am here to discuss the end times and/or the false Pre-Trib Rapture belief. I believe many will be saved from many different denominations based on their belief in Christ and what he did on the cross and their repentance of sins.

FYI, according to Wikipedia, the SDA do teach an imminent second coming, see below which I cut and pasted.

The Seventh-day Adventist Church[SUP][2][/SUP][SUP][3][/SUP] is a Protestant Christian[SUP][4][/SUP] denomination distinguished by its observance of Saturday,[SUP][5][/SUP] the original seventh day of the Judeo-Christian week, as the Sabbath, and by its emphasis on the imminent second coming (advent) of Jesus Christ. The denomination grew out of the Millerite movement in the United States during the middle part of the 19th century and was formally established in 1863.[SUP][6][/SUP] Among its founders was Ellen G. White, whose extensive writings are still held in high regard by the church today.[SUP][7][/SUP]
Much of the theology of the Seventh-day Adventist Church corresponds to Protestant Christian teachings such as the Trinity and the infallibility of Scripture. Distinctive teachings include the unconscious state of the dead and the doctrine of an investigative judgment. The church is also known for its emphasis on diet and health, its holistic understanding of the person, its promotion of religious liberty, and its conservative principles and lifestyle.[SUP][8][/SUP]

I see that you do indeed want to fight. You are a liar. You have twice made a false claim.The SDA church has never held a secret rapture belief. You are very shallow-minded to believe that Non-sense,, And I'm not about to let you off the hook. If you examined the belief of 1844, you would know that the investigative judgement began then. But,, you are so full of yourself, that you would trip over the truth and fall face first on a lie, that you would then swallow. And you have!.

I have told you what we believe about the events surrounding the Appearance of Jesus. And you took that and decided we must have changed our position? You sir,, are not of Christ.. You are a liar and your game is slander.

And if you really examined what happened in 1844, you would wiser for it..But, you've decided that YOU know the truth..

Miller was only one of many people who founded the Sda church. So.. you are here to slander. Not teach anybody any truth.. I'm still waiting for the false doctrine you claim we follow? You have disqualified yourself before you even got started.
You are dismissed!

 

[enoch1nine]

just a wild thought, not that i believe it, but what if this long awaited rapture only takes special needs people and children twelve and under? that would be pretty awesome. and certainly fair i think.

 

[jkalyna]

Jesus wants to rapture our hearts unto him, daily. He will never take the flesh into his kingdom. It says we will be changed in the twinkling of an eye. It is today that is important. Many shall fall away it says, Pray lest ye fall into temptation also speaks of people growing cold. Jesus rapture our spirit unto holiness, and purity, each day for we are your beloved...

 

[Blain]

Are People Honestly still arguing about this? I don't think Jesus would very much be happy about a subject being argued about for so long. If the subject offends you and you feel the need to prove someone wrong, you also have to know when to walk away. WWJD Peoples.

 

[NodMyHeadLikeYeah]

LOL my family already thinks i'm nuts, but for some this message will bring joy, in others they will just want to argue about it. The Lord knows who he has chosen, he knew who would listen.

Did you tell them God told you a Tsunami is coming to hit only miami new jersey and New york.

Tsunamis are getting pretty picky about who they destroy

 

[peterT]

There are 7 trumpets in Revelation, the last one being Rev. 11:15-19. That's the last trump, like in 1 Cor. 15:52. Seven trumpeters at the battle of Jericho, 7 times around, and the last day, 7 blasts on the trumpet....and that was the last of Jericho. The math isn't hard.

That’s right “just-us-2”. The math is not that hard. The last trumpet is the last trumpet.

If it’s a pre-trib rapture then how come there is a trumpet that sounds Immediately after the tribulation?

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[RickyZ]

I ask you, to please tell me, exactly what it is that Satan is teaching me that is a lie?

Rather than tell you what satan is lying to people about, allow me to explain a moment here WHY he is lying about the timing of the 'rapture', and why that is so important. Does it really matter whether the ‘rapture’ (a misnomer) occurs before or after the 'tribulation'? Jesus told His disciples that the time of tribulation would be as in the days of Noah (Matt. 24:35-39) Noah was not taken out of the world during it’s judgment, but provided the means by which to survive it. But that was dependent upon Noah being obedient and faithful to prepare for it as the Lord instructed. Suppose that, having been warned of the coming flood and told to build the ark, Noah decided that it wasn't important, ‘God will save me from it’, and he didn't build the boat. Maybe God would have enabled Noah to dog paddle for those 40 days. Or maybe ol’ Noah would have drowned with the rest. Mankind was, after all, being judged for disbelief and disobedience.

Jesus taught us to expect judgment and tribulation, and there's a multiple of verses that back that up. Think about what will come: war, famine, disease, crippling pollution, lawlessness, mass earth upheavals, yada yada yada. If we expect to have to survive it all we’ll need to be prepared. So how might God have us prepare for this? Suppose He wants us to stockpile food, water, and medical supplies. That may not be so easy to get our cooperation with if we don’t think we’re going to be around to need it. God told Noah to build a boat; maybe He’ll tell you to buy a bus. How we view the timing of the ‘rapture’ will make a BIG difference in how willing we are respond to what God would have us do to physically prepare for the judgment He tells us we’re going to see.

And more importantly – it will affect how we’ll respond to be spiritually prepared. Jesus said that evil will increase, that we will be hated, persecuted, betrayed by friends and family, and hauled off to be killed. It is little wonder that He also said many of us will turn away from Him. Duh. Like the seed planted amid the rocks, and when the heat’s on those who are not prepared will not be strong enough to stand - much less fight back. End time prophecies show spiritual persecution and warfare on levels unseen since Old Testament times. Those who aren't trained and versed in such things are going to get slaughtered, or worse, turn away.

In 2 Thessalonians 2:3, Paul talks about the coming of the Lord and our gathering to Him, and he says that day will not come until after the apostasy (which is the mass turning away from and rejection of God) and the ‘antichrist’ is revealed. Everyone knows about the ‘antichrist’, but few know about the apostasy. Paul put them on an equal footing.

Jesus says it’s going to happen, that we will see it happen, and that we need to be prepared for it or we will fail Him!!!

Sorry. It’s just really important that we all understand the importance of this issue.

Because satan will tell any lie he can to keep us unprepared.

[HR][/HR]

 

[Michael50]

Rather than tell you what satan is lying to people about, allow me to explain a moment here WHY he is lying about the timing of the 'rapture', and why that is so important. Does it really matter whether the ‘rapture’ (a misnomer) occurs before or after the 'tribulation'? Jesus told His disciples that the time of tribulation would be as in the days of Noah (Matt. 24:35-39) Noah was not taken out of the world during it’s judgment, but provided the means by which to survive it. But that was dependent upon Noah being obedient and faithful to prepare for it as the Lord instructed. Suppose that, having been warned of the coming flood and told to build the ark, Noah decided that it wasn't important, ‘God will save me from it’, and he didn't build the boat. Maybe God would have enabled Noah to dog paddle for those 40 days. Or maybe ol’ Noah would have drowned with the rest. Mankind was, after all, being judged for disbelief and disobedience.

Jesus taught us to expect judgment and tribulation, and there's a multiple of verses that back that up. Think about what will come: war, famine, disease, crippling pollution, lawlessness, mass earth upheavals, yada yada yada. If we expect to have to survive it all we’ll need to be prepared. So how might God have us prepare for this? Suppose He wants us to stockpile food, water, and medical supplies. That may not be so easy to get our cooperation with if we don’t think we’re going to be around to need it. God told Noah to build a boat; maybe He’ll tell you to buy a bus. How we view the timing of the ‘rapture’ will make a BIG difference in how willing we are respond to what God would have us do to physically prepare for the judgment He tells us we’re going to see.

And more importantly – it will affect how we’ll respond to be spiritually prepared. Jesus said that evil will increase, that we will be hated, persecuted, betrayed by friends and family, and hauled off to be killed. It is little wonder that He also said many of us will turn away from Him. Duh. Like the seed planted amid the rocks, and when the heat’s on those who are not prepared will not be strong enough to stand - much less fight back. End time prophecies show spiritual persecution and warfare on levels unseen since Old Testament times. Those who aren't trained and versed in such things are going to get slaughtered, or worse, turn away.

In 2 Thessalonians 2:3, Paul talks about the coming of the Lord and our gathering to Him, and he says that day will not come until after the apostasy (which is the mass turning away from and rejection of God) and the ‘antichrist’ is revealed. Everyone knows about the ‘antichrist’, but few know about the apostasy. Paul put them on an equal footing.

Jesus says it’s going to happen, that we will see it happen, and that we need to be prepared for it or we will fail Him!!!

Sorry. It’s just really important that we all understand the importance of this issue.

Because satan will tell any lie he can to keep us unprepared.

[HR][/HR]

So,, why quote me, if you can't describe my error? Perhaps you are confused. Why not tell me what denomination that YOU adhere to. And I will tell you how Satan has lied to you and you have believed his lies. So,, before you go throwing rocks at the rest of the Believers,, state your case! Name your denominationm and the beliefs you hold and why?

I will answer any question that you have concerning the why I beleive the way I do. I am more than ready to give an answer!

But i doubt that you are. But, at any rate,,, once you set your doctrine and denomination or what it is you beleive out there so I can examine it, we will get nowhere.

State your Doctrine!

 

[PlainWord]

Rather than tell you what satan is lying to people about, allow me to explain a moment here WHY he is lying about the timing of the 'rapture', and why that is so important. Does it really matter whether the ‘rapture’ (a misnomer) occurs before or after the 'tribulation'? Jesus told His disciples that the time of tribulation would be as in the days of Noah (Matt. 24:35-39) Noah was not taken out of the world during it’s judgment, but provided the means by which to survive it. But that was dependent upon Noah being obedient and faithful to prepare for it as the Lord instructed. Suppose that, having been warned of the coming flood and told to build the ark, Noah decided that it wasn't important, ‘God will save me from it’, and he didn't build the boat. Maybe God would have enabled Noah to dog paddle for those 40 days. Or maybe ol’ Noah would have drowned with the rest. Mankind was, after all, being judged for disbelief and disobedience.

Jesus taught us to expect judgment and tribulation, and there's a multiple of verses that back that up. Think about what will come: war, famine, disease, crippling pollution, lawlessness, mass earth upheavals, yada yada yada. If we expect to have to survive it all we’ll need to be prepared. So how might God have us prepare for this? Suppose He wants us to stockpile food, water, and medical supplies. That may not be so easy to get our cooperation with if we don’t think we’re going to be around to need it. God told Noah to build a boat; maybe He’ll tell you to buy a bus. How we view the timing of the ‘rapture’ will make a BIG difference in how willing we are respond to what God would have us do to physically prepare for the judgment He tells us we’re going to see.

And more importantly – it will affect how we’ll respond to be spiritually prepared. Jesus said that evil will increase, that we will be hated, persecuted, betrayed by friends and family, and hauled off to be killed. It is little wonder that He also said many of us will turn away from Him. Duh. Like the seed planted amid the rocks, and when the heat’s on those who are not prepared will not be strong enough to stand - much less fight back. End time prophecies show spiritual persecution and warfare on levels unseen since Old Testament times. Those who aren't trained and versed in such things are going to get slaughtered, or worse, turn away.

In 2 Thessalonians 2:3, Paul talks about the coming of the Lord and our gathering to Him, and he says that day will not come until after the apostasy (which is the mass turning away from and rejection of God) and the ‘antichrist’ is revealed. Everyone knows about the ‘antichrist’, but few know about the apostasy. Paul put them on an equal footing.

Jesus says it’s going to happen, that we will see it happen, and that we need to be prepared for it or we will fail Him!!!

Sorry. It’s just really important that we all understand the importance of this issue.

Because satan will tell any lie he can to keep us unprepared.

[HR][/HR]

You are a true scholar and have NAILED this!! Just to expand on one of your thoughts if I may. The bigger danger, IMO, than not being prepared to survive the Tribulation - because let's face it - it will be a bit of a crap shoot considering all the attacks from asteroids and demonic forces; the bigger risk to me is being turned in by fellow Christians who have fallen away because the rapture didn't happen. Now with the revelation that the NSA has all of our phone records and potentially email records it won't be hard to see how quickly this can happen.

 

[RickyZ]

So,, why quote me, if you can't describe my error? Perhaps you are confused. Why not tell me what denomination that YOU adhere to. And I will tell you how Satan has lied to you and you have believed his lies. So,, before you go throwing rocks at the rest of the Believers,, state your case! Name your denomination and the beliefs you hold and why?

I will answer any question that you have concerning the why I believe the way I do. I am more than ready to give an answer!

But i doubt that you are. But, at any rate,,, once you set your doctrine and denomination or what it is you believe out there so I can examine it, we will get nowhere.

State your Doctrine!

Settle down, settle down, I'm hoping to change the tenor of the conversation. I didn't say you lied, I said satan has, and here is why. I used your quote as an opening, and a pivot point to go from he lied/she lied, to 'here's the reason lies might be out there'. That's all. I'm not saying I'm right or you're wrong, I'm just sayin' "here's what your enemy might be up to". Consider the argument or not. And believe whatever you want.

My doctrine? I'm a Functionalist. I believe in functional Christianity. If Jesus tells us to heal the sick, then we should function with the ability to bring healing to the sick. If Paul tells us to speak responsibly in tongues and prophesy, then we should function with the freedom to speak in tongues and prophesy. If God tells us we are to cast out demons, then we should function at a level that enables us to cast out demons. If the Bible tells us that spiritual warfare will increase in the end, then we should function in a manner that empowers us to commit spiritual warfare.

But if we proclaim that God is all powerful, and then take away His power by adding not here, not now, not these, not us, then we limit the Holy Spirit’s functionality to bear fruit in us as Jesus intends.



That's my doctrine.

 

[RickyZ]

You are a true scholar and have NAILED this!! Just to expand on one of your thoughts if I may. The bigger danger, IMO, than not being prepared to survive the Tribulation - because let's face it - it will be a bit of a crap shoot considering all the attacks from asteroids and demonic forces; the bigger risk to me is being turned in by fellow Christians who have fallen away because the rapture didn't happen. Now with the revelation that the NSA has all of our phone records and potentially email records it won't be hard to see how quickly this can happen.

That's the thing; how many people WILL see all this calamity happening, figure 'well we should'a been gone by now, this must all be wrong', and say yeah I'm starving gimme the mark so I can buy some food?

Most debate subjects are relatively harmless in the long run. Being wrong on this one could be fatal.