The Rapture More False Teachings

[popeye]

Hi Ron: You said that those under the alter became Christians after the rapture? According to pre-trib the rapture occurs and all the Christians are gone, the Antichrist takes over and causes all the world to take the mark of the Beast. So you have a word with no Christians in it(according to pre-trib) only those who have the mark of the Beast. So where are those Christians coming from who will become Christians after the rapture? I have never heard of anyone becoming a Christian without first being witnessed to by a Christian, if all the Christians went in the rapture then who is to witness to those people so they will accept Christ and refuse the mark of the Beast?

According to pre-trib the rapture occurs and all the Christians are gone, the Antichrist takes over and causes all the world to take the mark of the Beast. So you have a word with no Christians in it(according to pre-trib) only those who have the mark of the Beast

no,we do not believe that.

In both mat 24,and 25 we see where half are left behind.

Those left behind will for the most part refuse the mark.

Those martyrs under the altar are told to wait until their number is fulfilled. Right away,we see the martyrs in the innumerable number before the throne in heaven.

Yet another blow to post trib.

 

[PlainWord]

From what you say I conclude that you are a Partial Preterist which means that you believe in some sort of second coming
but not in the traditional way most people understand.

The Bible consists of a progressive revelation of Gods plan for humanity. It is written in various ways that include symbolism, types and figurative language. The Jews interpretated scripture using four levels of understanding the
first and most basic level is literal. The general rule is that any level of interpretation has to take into account the
literal meaning before the whole meaning of a verse or passage can be understood. Scriptural meanings are also obtained by comparing different passages with each other. The whole system is known as Midrash Jesus and the Bible writers knew of and used Midrash. The Holy Spirit also used Midrash in guiding them to write scripture.

The Bible teaches that there is a Physical realm and a Spiritual one. In the OT we read about the Exodus from Egypt to the promised land. No one disbelieves the Exodus story wasn't real but we also believe it is a figure of an individuals spiritual experience of the journey back to God. There are huge numbers of examples where familiar objects and events are used to explain spiritual realities. We accept most of them both literally and spiritually.

To say that Christ reigns spiritually now is true as far as believers are concerned but not for the countless millions who are not believers. The world is imperfect and getting worse to the extent that none believers are waking up to the fact that something is going to happen possibly soon

This is not the world of the Millennium promised through the Prophets. In the NT the Disciples are told that Jesus would return in the same way they saw him go. That way was visibly and in Zechariah it says he will set his feet on the mount of Olives. It also says that the dead will rise and those who remain will be transformed and meet him in the air at his second coming. There is no record of this happening so far whatever timing or interpretation anyone puts on it.

So I am still convinced in a future fulfillment of these things.

The common view of many, even those who don't believe in pretrib, is that Christ returns in a dramatic fashion to wage war and quickly defeat His enemies, even killing all of the unbelievers and establishing a new visible earthly reign for 1,000 years where there is peace and everyone is in resurrected spiritual bodies. Then, apparently, wickedness creeps back in because Satan who had been bound is loosed. There is then this massive war where Satan is finally defeated and the new heaven comes down and then we have judgment and the final state. I believed this too for the longest time, but this view DOES NOT WORK and makes no sense. Christ would not have victory when He returns if everything He establishes is again undermined by Satan.

You said to take literal first when literal works. I agree. So let's do this. In the below Christ is speaking specifically to and directly at the below people. He is telling them, not another generation thousands of year later, that He will return and THEY WILL SEE IT!!

“Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”

For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

Jesus said to him, “It is as you said. Nevertheless, I say to you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

...and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory...[SUP]34 [/SUP]Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.

The disciples understood this. This is why they fully expected Christ to return during their lifetime. However, it wasn't to be a physical return with Christ sitting on an earthly throne in an earthly temple. No, His presence left and returned as indicated by their question.

To understand prophesy one must first understand the nature of the Kingdom, which Christ leads. It starts small and fills the earth. It isn't a dramatic event. This is evidenced in Dan 2 and Mat 13 (mustard seed & leaven). Christ is on the throne RIGHT NOW. He is reigning right now and must continue to reign until death is defeated.

 

[PlainWord]

tanakh,

Let me ask you a series of questions. I'm going to cite a passage and please tell me if it is deals with the past or future?

Mat 24:[SUP] 29 [/SUP]“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. [SUP]30 [/SUP]Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [SUP]31 [/SUP]And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

How about this, past or future?

Isa 13:10: For the stars of heaven and their constellations Will not give their light; The sun will be darkened in its going forth, And the moon will not cause its light to shine.

How about this, past or future?

Isa 34: [SUP]4 [/SUP]All the host of heaven shall be dissolved, And the heavens shall be rolled up like a scroll; All their host shall fall down As the leaf falls from the vine, And as fruit falling from a fig tree.

How about this, past or future?

Eze 32: When I put out your light, I will cover the heavens, and make its stars dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud, And the moon shall not give her light.

How about this, past or future?

Joe 2:10 The earth quakes before them, The heavens tremble; The sun and moon grow dark, And the stars diminish their brightness.

How about this, past or future?

Joe 2:31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord. And it shall come to pass That whoever calls on the name of the Lord Shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be deliverance, As the Lord has said, Among the remnant whom the Lord calls.

How about this, past or future?

Joe 3:15 The sun and moon will grow dark, And the stars will diminish their brightness. The Lord also will roar from Zion, And utter His voice from Jerusalem; The heavens and earth will shake...

If you answer "future" to all of these, do they describe the same event?