the rapture

mpaper345 · Nov 28, 2015

The mark of the beast has to do with technology,and will be at the time that the whole world can communicate with each other,in which they will come together to solve the problems of the world,and cut God out of the picture.

The beast kingdom does not believe in a personal God,but an impersonal God,which they call the God of forces,but has no say so in their life.Since God is an evolutionary force then the divinity of nature is in all people,in which they believe that it will be brought out at that time,and they will be able to have power over the elements.

The man of sin's agenda is to establish a world that is all about people with no religious,or governmental,authority above them,in which they will not honor a personal God,but an impersonal God,the God of forces,and be in to witchcraft,and will be about the occult.

The man of sin will tell them that there is no personal God that can help people to solve their problems,or prosper them,but man's technology,and devices,is the only answer to solve the world's problems,and to prosper them,which the mark of the beast will be the answer to cut down on problems,and crimes.

The mark of the beast will be picked up by satellite,which they will know the location of all people on earth,so if a crime happens they will know who was in the area at the time,and to find lost children,and people in general.It will be used for the one world economic system,which all finances will be done on computer.

This is what the strong's concordance says about it.

χξς
chi xi stigma
khee xee stig'-ma
The 22nd, 14th and an obsolete letter (G4742 as a cross) of the Greek alphabet (intermediate between the 5th and 6th), used as numbers; denoting respectively 600, 60 and 6; 666 as a numeral: - six hundred threescore and six.

στίγμα
stigma
stig'-mah
From a primary word στίζω stizō (to stick, that is, prick); a mark incised or punched (for recognition of ownership), that is, (figuratively) scar of service: - mark.

It appears that the mark of the beast would be the microchip that would have all the information about the person,their financial records,or any other records,and gives a picture of them on computer,which the concordance also describes something sharpened to a point,which it would be injected under the skin,and gives an exact likeness of the person,which a picture on computer would give an exact likeness of them.

The first wrath of God upon the people who rebelled against God,will cause a grievous sore on them,which sounds like whatever is keeping the microchip charged up,God will cause that to leak out and cause that sore.

As far as being caught up in the resurrection,the only people that will be caught up are the ones that follow after good works,and represent goodness in this world,which the Bible says some people have a form of godliness,but they deny the Spirit leading them,and are lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God,and Jesus said not all people that confess Him will be with Him,but only those who do the will of the Father,which is to represent goodness,and lukewarm Christians God will spew out of His mouth,and love not the world,or the things in the world,if any person love the world,or the things in the world,the love of the Father is not in them,and anybody that is a hypocrite,not representing goodness,they will not be caught up in the resurrection,but will have their portion with the hypocrites,and of the 10 virgins,only 5 had oil in their lamp,which means thay had the Holy Spirit,and the other 5 did not,and did not make it.

Brother_J_BELGIUM · Nov 28, 2015

Ahwatukee said:

Hello Brother_J

The reason that people will go to the lake of fire because of receiving the coming mark, besides the fact that scripture says exactly that, is because by receiving the mark one will be aligning himself with the beast and that because scripture states that it is his mark. I have been observing the evolution of the system of the mark from the time that that first ATM's came out, followed by the Universal product code (UPC) and following that, the Point of Sale system (POS). People, unaware Christian's included, are being conditioned for the coming mark by utilizing this system by their everyday purchases via electronic crediting and debiting (buying and selling). This system had to come into being and evolve and will continue to evolve in preparation for that antichrist/beast who is to come.

In addition, technology continues to produce new devices, most of which allow for payment via electronic crediting and debiting. The next step in the evolution of the coming mark has been the introduction of the Chase square, which among other functions allows individuals to credit and debit each others bank accounts. Another application that just came out is the Samsung pay, which replaces the swiping of the debit or credit card by simply bringing up the App. on their phone and putting near the VeriFone device and viola! Payment has been made. Furthermore, Denmark is set to go completely cashless in 2016, with some stipulations, with her sister countries to follow suit. On top of that, we are already seeing businesses in Sweden and others being implanted with RFID chips under the skin of the hand, which in itself is a testimony to the truth and accuracy of God's word of prophecy.

Swedish office staff offered implants to access facilities - BBC News

For the person with this kind of thinking, it makes them prone to receiving the mark, not thinking that there is anything wrong with receiving it, yet regarding this, scripture states the following:

"A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name."

Regarding the above, a good rule of thumb would be to not have anything implanted on or under your skin for any reason.

I've been studying on those things too in the past, and I really believed that that would be the mark of the beast. But for now I don't see any reason why using the RFID microchip is bad or anything. The day that some government or leader will tell me to put a badge on my forehead or right arm (dexios) then I will know it's the mark of the beast. In Israel and Sweden there's a cashless society and I think it's good for the economy. There's nothing religious attached to it, so I don't see any problems with that.

DP · Nov 28, 2015

PlainWord said:

The prophecy of another temple built in Jerusalem for the end, PRIOR to Jesus' second coming, is written. You've just failed to recognize the timing of Scripture about it.

To the orthodox Jews, that third temple will be holy... to them. It will not be the Milennium Sanctuary of Ezekiel that Jesus with His elect will reign from during the future thousand years.

You cannot apply the Body of Christ as the spiritual temple of Ephesians 2 to that third temple in Jerusalem that will be built for the end prior to our Lord Jesus' coming. The Antichrist of 2 Thess.2:4 is not a pope either. Men's doctrines of Preterism and Historicism simply have not updated their thinking to match the events that are to occur for the end. Rev.11:1-2 shows a temple with those who worship in it, and the outer court left to the Gentiles who will also tread the city for 42 months, the same timing of the dragon's reign per Rev.13.

You forgot to include His disciples understanding of what time He was talking about with that not one stone atop of another:

Matt 24:2-3
2 And Jesus said unto them, "See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."

3 And as He sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of Thy coming, and of the end of the world?"
KJV

You actually believe the coming Antichrist could corrupt Christ's spiritual temple of Ephesians 2? You have been lied to, those crept in unawares wanting you to concentrate on hating a pope, keeping your misguided focus on Rome, and not Jerusalem where the pseudo-Christ is coming to play God.

If ANY man could corrupt Christ's spiritual temple, which is built on the foundation of His Apostles, the prophets, and Jesus Himself as it Head Cornerstone (per Eph.2), don't you realize that our Christian Faith would cease to have meaning??? The spiritual temple concept in the NT is about His Church by The Spirit, not by a building nor any organizational structure setup by men!

But those men you listen to have duped you into believing Christ's foundation of His Church could be touched by Satan when it cannot, otherwise our Faith would mean nothing! That reveals how deeply seated those crept in unawares are fooling believers like yourself.

DP · Nov 28, 2015

Brother_J_BELGIUM said:

To understand a more natural reading of the text about the mark of the beast, I urge you to watch this short explanation on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtquNNEO7Fw

"Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding reckon (psephizo) the multitude (arithmos) of the beast, for it is the multitude of a man, and his multitude is in the name of Allah (xi chi stigma/Bismillah).

The multitude of the kingdom of the Antichrist is in the name of Allah, they come in the name of Allah. After all, all Muslims deny Jesus is the Christ and thus the Antichrist kingdom can only come from that direction.

I just can't believe some people will go to hell for all eternity all because of some stupid microchip implanted in their skin. It is more likely that you will go to hell for siding with the Antichrist by saying Jesus didn't die on the cross. This makes way more sense to me than going to hell because you took some futuristic device and put it in your hand. Seriously.

If the time comes when in order to buy and sell you must take a chip and worship the coming Antichrist, would you then think it OK to take it? I think not.

Brother_J_BELGIUM · Nov 28, 2015

DP said:

Of course not. But that's the whole thing. The Antichrist isn't going to be some western leader but rather a Middle Eastern leader who is a Muslim. Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. I don't know how big the Antichrist's kingdom will be exactly, but I do know that "ships of Chittim" i.e. Europe will "come against him". So Europe, at least for the largest part, will be spared from the rule of Antichrist. The US will escape from it too I believe. He will even be attacked from the north and the east so not every country will have to take this mark, whatever it may be.

DP · Nov 28, 2015

Brother_J_BELGIUM said:

I wish you were right. But all we have to do is look at U.S. support of Islam right here on American soil and in Europe to see the intention of Satan's servants for our near future.

Brother_J_BELGIUM · Nov 28, 2015

DP said:

Well I agree. Since Christianity has been going down after let's say world war two there has been a wide acceptance of other religions, including Islam. Our leaders don't know the dangers of this religion because it claims to come in peace and they take the bait. When the Antichrist will reveal his real intentions (when he breaks the covenant) the western world will finally awaken and will fight against this world power I believe.

DP · Nov 28, 2015

Brother_J_BELGIUM said:

I don't see us in the West fighting against the coming beast kingdom and "another beast" at all, not in the literal military sense, but only Christ's servants who are not deceived, and that only in the spiritual battle sense.

In Matt.24 and Mark 13, our Lord Jesus showed us the time of "great tribulation" will be a time of world peace. Paul showed the same idea in 1 Thess.5 when the deceived will say, "Peace and safety". Our Lord Jesus also showed in Rev.13 the dragon is given power over all nations and peoples on earth in that time.

The spiritual battle those in Christ will do in that time is shown in the Rev.11 Scripture with God's two witnesses that show up in Jerusalem to prophesy for 1260 days against the beast, and also issue out God's plagues upon them in that tribulation period of the 6th trumpet - 2nd woe. It also mentions two candlesticks with mention of those two witnesses, and per Jesus the candlesticks represent the seven Churches (Rev.1). That's pointing to two of the seven candlesticks making a stand with God's two witnesses in that time.

An event many have missed from the signs Jesus gave (Mark 13), is about some of His elect being delivered up to give a Testimony by The Holy Spirit against them in that future time. That is when the real event of Joel 2 that Apostle Peter quoted will be, the cloven tongue manifesting God's Witness against the beast and his kingdom that all nations will hear in their own languages. None will be able to deny that Testimony from God by The Holy Spirit speaking through His servants in that time. And that will begin the immediate downfall of the beast, with Christ's second coming soon to come at the end of that Testimony, on the 7th trumpet - 3rd woe.

Thus the beast's defeat will first begin by The Holy Spirit speaking to all nations, and then Jesus' coming to literally defeat the great armies that come out of the northern quarters to try and destroy God's people off the earth in final.

tanach · Nov 29, 2015

DP said:

One major flaw with the rapture doctrine is that of putting into Pauls references to it something that is not there. That something is a 'secret return of Christ'. Nowhere does he say that Christ will return secretly. He says that believers will be changed at the last trump. The whole doctrine concerning the rapture and the second coming has been distorted by this teaching. One only has to mention the rapture and a whole baggage of false teaching associated with it comes tumbling out
making the subject difficult to discuss rationally. It may come as a surprise to some that it is a very small number of Christians that believe in the pre trib teaching both now and in the past.

DP · Nov 29, 2015

tanach said:

I agree, John Darby in the 1830's is who coined that idea of a secret rapture. Even though he never used the term Secret Rapture, he certainly did use the idea of a secret coming of Christ. And for many years those teaching that doctrine also called it a secret rapture, until more modern times, when they suddenly dropped the idea of secret.

Yet if you study what our Heavenly Father said in Ezekiel 13 to the "house of Israel" concerning false pastors He did not call not preparing His people to stand in the battle in the day of the Lord, you'll discover that pre-trib rapture doctrine was prophesied to fool many in the last days.

popeye · Nov 29, 2015

DP said:

It appears to me that your pendulum swings far opposite of replacement theology in that to you,the church,the indisputable bride of Christ does not even exist.

Are you aware that a city is made up of citizens?

When the word speaks of people,many times it is "he".
Do you also apply your template there?
Are women excluded.

IS THE CHURCH THE BRIDE?

popeye · Nov 29, 2015

DP said:

Then premillinealism is also wrong,if you are of the group that promotes "the ancients were right"

His doctrine introduced several dynamics.
Pretrib rapture was one.

popeye · Nov 29, 2015

tanach said:

Broad brush.

I can handily defend pretrib rapture.

I'm fact,it is described as a thief in the night.

But it says to his own,it is not as a thief.

Pretrib doctrine agrees with watching,waiting,praying "come lord Jesus"

It is THE ONLY POSITION that does not distort the virgin parable or the "one taken,one left" statement of Jesus in the same chapter as Lot and his family taken pretrib.

It is the only view that CAN ACKNOWLEDGE the ark with Noah above the earth DURING THE TRIB.

All other doctrinesMUST TWIST THOSE VERSES.

Pretrib is the ONLY DOCTRINE that can openly teach Jesus' words at the last supper concerning heaven,his people meeting him there,mansions,the wine,and strangely enough it's confirmation in rev 19.

The depth of the bride/groom is ours only. We own the concept and All OTHER POSITIONS LEAVE THE OBVIOUS OFF THE TABLE CONCERNING THIS DIMENSION.

We are systematic Bereans of escatology.

PlainWord · Nov 29, 2015

Ahwatukee said:

My dear friend,

The Mark of the Beast is not a computer chip. It is nothing that is placed under the skin. Notice the mark is placed ON their forehead or ON their hand, not IN the forehead or hand. So many get this wrong because they fail to understand what Mystery Babylon is and Who or what the "Beast" is (More on this later). They also wrongly read Rev 13 and think there will be a global chip or identifier that everyone must have in order to buy and sell. But the text does not say that either. Words have meaning and the Bible is very precise. Read it again please:

[SUP]16 [/SUP]He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, [SUP]17 [/SUP]and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Notice the text I put in bold blue for you. There are one of three things listed that are needed to "buy or sell:" 1) The Mark of the Beast, 2) the Name of the Beast, and 3) The Number of his (Beast's) name. Notice the "OR" placed between each of the three. It is not an "AND" it is an "OR." Therefore one may have the NUMBER, the NAME or the NUMBER of his NAME in order to buy or sell. This alone totally disproves your microchip theory.

The above is the NKJV transliteration. This is another topic but this transliteration was made in 1611 AD and the translators lacked the context of current world events. There is another alternative and acceptable transliteration of the above passage that makes it fit perfectly into today's context.

I won't go into details here as it would take too long but once you understand who or what Mystery Babylon and the Beast are, things fall into place.

Mystery Babylon = ISLAM
BEAST of the SEA = a re-established ISLAMIC STATE to the north of Israel

All of Revelation 13 is dealing with Muslims and followers of ISLAM. They serve the BEAST. This BEAST distorts then eventually utterly destroys ISLAM and nukes it's city - MECCA.

PlainWord · Nov 29, 2015

[SUP]12 [/SUP]And he exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence, and causes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

[SUP]14 [/SUP]And he deceives those who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the sword and lived.

I bet most think that the "EARTH" means the entire planet. It does NOT!!! The EARTH is a specific part of the planet and "those who dwell on the earth" are specific people. It took me decades to figure this out. The People who dwell on the earth are followers of ISLAM, primarily MUSLIMS. These people have not had their names written in the Book of Life and sadly will be tormented day and night in the Lake of Fire.

The key to understanding Revelation is to know that John wrote it using primarily OT symbolism from the prophets such as Ezekiel and Daniel (and others like Joel). He did this so that only his audience, the oppressed 7 churches of Asia Minor (Turkey) would understand but the Romans would not.

When John writes about the BEAST of the SEA in Revelation 13 he is using symbols from Daniel 7 and 8. He gives us the location and the people who make up this beast. We learn that the BEAST of the SEA is from the region of Syria, Iraq and Iran. From Daniel 8 we learn that the EARTH is not the whole planet:

[SUP]5 [/SUP]And as I was considering, suddenly a male goat came from the west, across the surface of the whole earth, without touching the ground; and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes.

Notice the term, "WHOLE EARTH?" The Goat was Alexander the Great and the passage describes the Empire of Greece and their conquest of Medo-Persia. Alexander's conquests took him through Turkey, ancient Babylon, across Afghanistan and Pakistan and down into the Holy Land and Egypt. Alexander did not conquer the entire planet.

When John wrote Revelation in about 95-96 AD it was a mere 418 or so years after Alexander. The known world had not changed much between Alexander and John. John had no knowledge of the Americas, Australia or other regions beyond his knowledge. Thus John was not discussing the entire planet and all mankind in Rev 13. He was discussing his known part of the world which today is the Muslim world with little Israel completely surrounded smack dab in the middle of it.

popeye · Nov 29, 2015

PlainWord said:

[SUP]12 [/SUP]And he exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence, and causes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

[SUP]14 [/SUP]And he deceives those who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the sword and lived.

I bet most think that the "EARTH" means the entire planet. It does NOT!!! The EARTH is a specific part of the planet and "those who dwell on the earth" are specific people. It took me decades to figure this out. The People who dwell on the earth are followers of ISLAM, primarily MUSLIMS. These people have not had their names written in the Book of Life and sadly will be tormented day and night in the Lake of Fire.

The key to understanding Revelation is to know that John wrote it using primarily OT symbolism from the prophets such as Ezekiel and Daniel (and others like Joel). He did this so that only his audience, the oppressed 7 churches of Asia Minor (Turkey) would understand but the Romans would not.

When John writes about the BEAST of the SEA in Revelation 13 he is using symbols from Daniel 7 and 8. He gives us the location and the people who make up this beast. We learn that the BEAST of the SEA is from the region of Syria, Iraq and Iran. From Daniel 8 we learn that the EARTH is not the whole planet:

[SUP]5 [/SUP]And as I was considering, suddenly a male goat came from the west, across the surface of the whole earth, without touching the ground; and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes.

Notice the term, "WHOLE EARTH?" The Goat was Alexander the Great and the passage describes the Empire of Greece and their conquest of Medo-Persia. Alexander's conquests took him through Turkey, ancient Babylon, across Afghanistan and Pakistan and down into the Holy Land and Egypt. Alexander did not conquer the entire planet.

When John wrote Revelation in about 95-96 AD it was a mere 418 or so years after Alexander. The known world had not changed much between Alexander and John. John had no knowledge of the Americas, Australia or other regions beyond his knowledge. Thus John was not discussing the entire planet and all mankind in Rev 13. He was discussing his known part of the world which today is the Muslim world with little Israel completely surrounded smack dab in the middle of it.

You are saying openly that rev came from John's mind,not the Holy Spirit?

If Jesus wrote it would he know any difference between a region and the planet?

PlainWord · Nov 29, 2015

DP,

I was discussing 2 Thes 2. Rev 11 is not connected to 2 Thes 2. They are totally different passages written by different authors who are discussing different things.

John is giving us a spiritual overview contrasting the saved and unsaved. Here in Rev 11:1 he says this:

Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood, saying, “Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there.

First, where is John when he writes this? He is in heaven. He was taken there in Rev 4:1. He describes the same scene in Rev 7:

[SUP]15 [/SUP]Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple.

The Temple of God is in heaven and those who worship there are the saved saints including the Great Multitude. He was then told not to measure/count the Gentiles or unsaved. They will not be in heaven, rather they never leave earth.

[SUP]2 [/SUP]But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months.

Today, what is in the former court where the old temple used to sit? The Al-Aqsa Mosque whose construction was completed in 688 AD. 688+1260 = 1948.

John goes on to discuss the 2 Witnesses which are the Eastern (Greek Orthodox) and Western (Roman Catholic) Churches and all of their offspring which are the other denominations which arose from these two churches. These 2 churches are in the process of being "killed" by Satan and he kills one by Egypt (ISLAM) and the other by Sodom (Wickedness such as Gay Rights).

PlainWord · Nov 29, 2015

popeye said:

Where do I say that? I'm saying John used OT symbolism which was given to him by the HS. Revelation was written to the 7 churches of the 1st century. They were his audience, not you and me. You have to understand the context.

Did not the HS tell Daniel what to write? How can Daniel tell us Alexander went across the surface of the whole earth when it wasn't the whole planet?

PlainWord · Nov 29, 2015

The Bible is Israel-centric. If you read it as a Believing Jew living in or around Israel it will make a lot more sense to you Popeye, especially the prophetic parts. The Bible was not written from the prospective of an American Christian living in America. This is not to say future events won't effect America as we are being influenced by the spread of radical Islam, but we don't have any specific prophesies that tells us what will happen in America or other parts of the world.

For instance, we know that Mecca will be nuked (Rev 18). We also know something really bad happens in Damascus (Isa 17:1). However, nothing was foretold about Hiroshima and Nagasaki, yet they were the first cities ever nuked.

valiant · Nov 29, 2015

PlainWord said:

No the Bible is Christ-centric. Thus everything revolves around him. That is why the true Israel is made up of believers in the Messiah. And that is why God's judgments are not restricted to the Middle East.

I don't think so lol It makes much more sense to those who believe in the Messiah. Although we certainly have to keep context in mind.

At least you are right there?

Most of the world is being affected by radical Islam. So what? But I can agree that America is not in mind in prophecies.

LOL couldn't God spell Mecca? Since when has it been 'a great city'?

That happened 2500 years ago.

What a surprise. Couldn't you fit something in Revelation into it? LOL

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