The "real" Great Tribulation
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Well if you are going through the great tribulation you are in deep trouble. During the great tribulation if you stand with Israel you will be killed. If you convert and become a Christian you will be killed. If you are in Jerusalem you will flee to escape death and only the appearance of Christ will save you. When Jesus comes into Jerusalem He will destroy all those who came against Israel. Prospects are not looking good for those on the earth at this time. Those not killed in the plagues and judgments will die by the avenging angels. I guess you presume that going through that is better than the rapture of the church.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Please look at the below passage:
Dan 8: [SUP]5 [/SUP]And as I was considering, suddenly a male goat came from the west, across the surface of the whole earth, without touching the ground; and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes.
Did Alexander really cross the surface of the entire planet in the 300s BC? Did Daniel lie? Is the Bible false? Maybe, just maybe, the "whole earth" does not mean the entire surface of the planet? If the "whole earth" is defined as the part that Alexander crossed then we have a region from Greece to Pakistan. See below map showing the area Alexander conquered.
If you look at Islam today in the map below, you see the same places, peoples, nations, languages and tongues.
The world as known to John was essential the same world as known to Daniel. There was no North or South America known back then to either of them. So, either you think Islam takes over the entire planet after Saints are "overcome" as it says here:
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
Or, you think Islam takes over their part of the planet and they overcome the saints in their part of the world. No doubt the Caliphate was declared over the entire planet but there is enough scripture telling us that there will still be many nations left when Christ returns. The sheep nations cannot be Islamic.
Dan 8: [SUP]5 [/SUP]And as I was considering, suddenly a male goat came from the west, across the surface of the whole earth, without touching the ground; and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes.
Did Alexander really cross the surface of the entire planet in the 300s BC? Did Daniel lie? Is the Bible false? Maybe, just maybe, the "whole earth" does not mean the entire surface of the planet? If the "whole earth" is defined as the part that Alexander crossed then we have a region from Greece to Pakistan. See below map showing the area Alexander conquered.
If you look at Islam today in the map below, you see the same places, peoples, nations, languages and tongues.
The world as known to John was essential the same world as known to Daniel. There was no North or South America known back then to either of them. So, either you think Islam takes over the entire planet after Saints are "overcome" as it says here:
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
Or, you think Islam takes over their part of the planet and they overcome the saints in their part of the world. No doubt the Caliphate was declared over the entire planet but there is enough scripture telling us that there will still be many nations left when Christ returns. The sheep nations cannot be Islamic.
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The GT certainly is over before Christ returns.
Mat 24:
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
[SUP]30 [/SUP]And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
It is pretty clear from the above that the Tribulation is over, THEN the sun darkens, etc.
Mat 24:
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
[SUP]30 [/SUP]And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
It is pretty clear from the above that the Tribulation is over, THEN the sun darkens, etc.
E
matt: 24 [SUP]22 [/SUP]And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.
The term "at the end" or "immediately after" just means, means just that, Jesus puts an end to it with his return. He sets things right..
Jesus does not wait until it ends, then returns. He returns to put an end to it, because if he does not. No flesh will survive.
The term "at the end" or "immediately after" just means, means just that, Jesus puts an end to it with his return. He sets things right..
Jesus does not wait until it ends, then returns. He returns to put an end to it, because if he does not. No flesh will survive.
One more point on this.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
It doesn't say that the days were shortened by the return of Christ, it merely says they were shortened. God intervenes and stops Satan's slaughter of the saints.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
It doesn't say that the days were shortened by the return of Christ, it merely says they were shortened. God intervenes and stops Satan's slaughter of the saints.
Again, the "all flesh" is specific to Israel. It is in Judea where the massive killing is taking place. You have to understand the context by using OT teachings as your backstop. The earth is in relative peace at the time Christ returns as He tells us here:
[SUP]38 [/SUP]For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, [SUP]39 [/SUP]and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
The days BEFORE the Flood were peaceful. It will be just like this again before Christ returns. The GT is over, the world is relatively calm. There isn't mass killings taking place. People are partying and living life as normal. They have no idea that Christ is about to return just as they didn't know the Flood was coming until it started to rain.
Yes, when Christ comes all "hell breaks loose." That is the Wrath which is not to be confused with Satan's Great Tribulation (of Israel).
[SUP]38 [/SUP]For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, [SUP]39 [/SUP]and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
The days BEFORE the Flood were peaceful. It will be just like this again before Christ returns. The GT is over, the world is relatively calm. There isn't mass killings taking place. People are partying and living life as normal. They have no idea that Christ is about to return just as they didn't know the Flood was coming until it started to rain.
Yes, when Christ comes all "hell breaks loose." That is the Wrath which is not to be confused with Satan's Great Tribulation (of Israel).
E
sorry but That makes no sense. God said he would protect the woman (Israel) during the tribulation. Her existence is never threatened. But all life on earth is.. (something will occure that threatens all life on planet earth)
All flesh is all flesh period. the tribulation is world wide.. In rev we see the prophesy of the kings of the earth hiding under clifts asking who can withstand the wrath of God.. It is not local event..
All flesh is all flesh period. the tribulation is world wide.. In rev we see the prophesy of the kings of the earth hiding under clifts asking who can withstand the wrath of God.. It is not local event..
You therefore do not believe that the earthly temple will be rebuilt?
what did GOD mean when HE said according to revelation, leave the outer courts which will be trampled by the Gentiles?
Revelation 11
And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. 2But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
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I will keep you from the hour which will come to test all men was declared right from the beginning and before the tribulation period and was spoken to HIS BODY...
Revelation3
Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth.
Revelation3
Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth.
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The ones that will be in deep trouble Roger are those who think they're going to 'fly away' to miss the tribulation, when instead they will be here, but won't have a clue of what's going on, and will follow the first supernatural messiah that shows up saying he is Christ. Problem is, the first messiah that shows up won't be our Lord Jesus. But that's the one your pre-trib preachers are going to tell you to fly away with.
Luke 17:33-37
33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.
KJV
Matt 24:28
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
KJV
Luke 17:33-37
33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.
KJV
Matt 24:28
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
KJV
Here's another "plain word"
And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
The GREAT TRIBULATION is happening before HIS SECOND COMING...in fact HE delays until the time of "Jacob's struggles"...of which is already spoken of in Revelation...although CHRIST forewarns HIS BODY to "overcome" and wait...
Where HIS CHURCH is...I am not sure...because I am drawn to this...that after CHRIST gives HIS FOREWARNING in Revelation 1-3, a voice is heard telling John (THE BELOVED?) to "come up here and see what must happen afterwards"....
And I can't understand where HIS CHURCH would be if not with HIM since I can't understand why and how our Older Brothers, the Jews, will even begin building an earthly temple unless their younger CHRISTIAN brothers are taken out of the way and therefore can't forewarn them that this is NOT needed...
Although they believe that it is...and will rebuild the earthly temple and will reinstate animal sacrificial offerings for sin/guilt...
And then the Abomination which causes desolation will be set up...in that earthly temple..and some will understand and some will not...
And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
The GREAT TRIBULATION is happening before HIS SECOND COMING...in fact HE delays until the time of "Jacob's struggles"...of which is already spoken of in Revelation...although CHRIST forewarns HIS BODY to "overcome" and wait...
Where HIS CHURCH is...I am not sure...because I am drawn to this...that after CHRIST gives HIS FOREWARNING in Revelation 1-3, a voice is heard telling John (THE BELOVED?) to "come up here and see what must happen afterwards"....
And I can't understand where HIS CHURCH would be if not with HIM since I can't understand why and how our Older Brothers, the Jews, will even begin building an earthly temple unless their younger CHRISTIAN brothers are taken out of the way and therefore can't forewarn them that this is NOT needed...
Although they believe that it is...and will rebuild the earthly temple and will reinstate animal sacrificial offerings for sin/guilt...
And then the Abomination which causes desolation will be set up...in that earthly temple..and some will understand and some will not...